LCC Road closure conspiracy?

[Skidog]

Anyone who lives in SLC and frequents LCC knows its a shitshow on powder days. Those that know, also know its been a very atypical snow year in the Wasatch. This surely contributes to the excess traffic in LCC, but ive been pondering a bit, and while possibly very far fetched, maybe Udot/unifried police are "manufacturing" some of this traffic? In past years its been bad, but i can't recall to the extend of whats been happening this year..I know more than a few that just plain gave up after waiting a LONG time in traffic on Sunday, some as long as 5 hours (sorry 5 hours to go 14.5 miles from MY house. There aint never been a snowflake that fell from the sky thats worth that). Even one that tired early, turned around at 10am (after moving 1.5miles in nearly 2 hours), went back home and got up at 12:30 only to literally find ZERO parking and no one turning people away. Kinda just "give it a shot folks". Seems you put more traffic on the road if you dont tell people there is no parking. If you know there is no parking..close the canyon. Sure it will suck for those that want to get up, but whats the point in going up if you wont find anywhere to park anyway?

Locally theres always lots of talk on how to fix the problem. One of the current proposals is a "Toll". Others have stated, and I agree, this will solve nothing. A few cars will be off the road and some carpooling will be done, but all this solution does is line the states coffers with very minimal traffic impact. My "conspiracy" theory is that UPD/UDOT is closing the canyon somewhat arbitrarily, keeping it closed for longer than expected (allowing massive traffic to build). All this in an effort to get the toll passed. In summer they can do their analyses, say.. "wow look how bad traffic was this year (chuckle chuckle), we totally need this toll". Yeah maybe the theory is a bit out there, but i see a big difference in traffic this year for sure.

Some temp solutions i've discussed with friends/acquaintances
1)Few extra busses early AM, with preference to normal "car" traffic (car traffic can start at 830am??)
2)Use both lanes, say between hours of 7-9, as "UP" only lanes (sure this might be slight trouble for people catching flights, but this isnt about that, its about reducing traffic in the canyon)

Both are totally TEMPORARY SOLUTIONS...we need a real solution...ive said mine in other threads, no need to repeat.

Ok so ....GO.

[skifishbum]

wow conspiracy
paging itchtybong jong to that phone
if ya only knew
stoked ya dont

[Skidog]

wow conspiracy
paging itchtybong jong to that phone
if ya only knew
stoked ya dont

yeah its a stretch i know...but with that silly lawmaker living right where traffic fucks up his day on occasion, well...

im not typically one to buy into these things, but Utah is a weird place. If mr lawmaker doesnt ski, and us dirtbag skiers are making his days harder...plenty of political corruption in Utah.

[GPP33]

Canyons like this seem easy to manage since there’s no through traffic. No car traffic from 6:00 to noon on weekends unless you have an address or lodging up the canyon and it’s your day of arrival. Maybe allow BC users to drive up, proof would be that everyone in the car has a beacon. Everyone else takes the bus.

One way traffic probably wouldn’t work from an emergency egress standpoint.

[jtran10]

Skidog's just still bummin he didn't ski Sunday

[BobMc]

When I came down on Sunday the 4x4 light was on and a UPD officer was stationed up in the middle of the road looking downcanyon with his lights on. I watched a Chevy Malibu (obviously a rental) drive right by the police car. He never made any attempt to stop or deter the FWD vehicle from going up.

First storm this season they were checking tire tread and claiming the 4x4 chains laws would be strictly enforced this year. So much for that...

[jtran10]

When I came down on Sunday the 4x4 light was on and a UPD officer was stationed up in the middle of the road looking downcanyon with his lights on. I watched a Chevy Malibu (obviously a rental) drive right by the police car. He never made any attempt to stop or deter the FWD vehicle from going up.

First storm this season they were checking tire tread and claiming the 4x4 chains laws would be strictly enforced this year. So much for that...

I got stopped on my way up Sunday to ensure the Sienna had 4x4. Just a quick question, but that happens semi-regularly.

[Skidog]

Skidog's just still bummin he didn't ski Sunday

Naa this is a problem man...I mean even yesterday it took an hour to get 14.5 miles. Yeah I wouldve like to ski sunday, but again aint a snowflake fell from the sky ever thats worth 5 hours for that short a mileage.

[Skidog]

When I came down on Sunday the 4x4 light was on and a UPD officer was stationed up in the middle of the road looking downcanyon with his lights on. I watched a Chevy Malibu (obviously a rental) drive right by the police car. He never made any attempt to stop or deter the FWD vehicle from going up.

First storm this season they were checking tire tread and claiming the 4x4 chains laws would be strictly enforced this year. So much for that...

Yep. Ive witnessed the same issue with letting obvious front wheel drive cars pass without chains. Like I said...i think they're manufacturing part of this. Allowing fwd cars to pass "unnoticed" just allows the problem to be worse, re-enforcing the need for a "toll"...

[Dantheman]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[Skidog]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

so you apparently think the problem hasnt gotten worse this year compared to past?

[Dantheman]

so you apparently think the problem hasnt gotten worse this year compared to past?

I don't know. The only time I've been up LCC this year was a Wednesday afternoon to hang with Tipp, and I haven't had an Alta pass since the year after my kid was born (7 years now, woah). I'd rather not speculate without hard data since this is the kind of thing that is ripe for some serious confirmation bias, and Sunday was by far the biggest storm of the year in an exceptionally lean year. I will say that I find the idea of legitimate conspiracy orchestrated between the legislature, UDOT and UPD to be rather far-fetched.

[reckless toboggan]

Did Chris Christie move to UT?

[Skidog]

Did Chris Christie move to UT?

The politicians in Utah make christie look like an altar boy...when a church runs the state government you got more corruption than you can shake a stick at.

[cbgarrett]

Not sure about conspiracy, I think more likely lazy enforcement of existing rules.

Sunday we were in line about 1/4 miles from the merge south of LCC entrance. When 8:15 rolled around and we started moving, it was extremely slow. Multiple sheriff vehicles at mouth. We stopped for 10+ minutes about 3 times before reaching 2 miles up canyon. Why? Multiple 4x4 vehicles (trucks, SUVs) sliding all over with no traction and blocking everyone else. Several vehicles sideways blocking the road. Several 2wd cars coming down canyon sliding all over.

Not sure why the sheriff can't check vehicles and tires while we are all parked for 1-2 hours. Make people with bald tires or no 4wd put chains on or turn around BEFORE the road opens. Enforce the existing rules. My solution would be require actual winter tires when the light is on.

In line at 7:15. On collins at 10. Best day of season, so definitely worth it, but I think the sheriff can do better.

[thebirdhunter]

I've been a pass holder in the LCC for over 25 years and personally I think last year was the biggest cluster fuck year ever.

This year not even close. I'm kinda liking the drought years.

and yes, Mormon republicans are the most corrupt worthless lying ass peice of shits on the planet. I wouldn't put it past them to do something shady like purposely clog up the road to get some stupid bill passed.

[Skidog]

I've been a pass holder in the LCC for over 25 years and personally I think last year was the biggest cluster fuck year ever.

This year not even close. I'm kinda liking the drought years.

and yes, Mormon republicans are the most corrupt worthless lying ass peice of shits on the planet. I wouldn't put it past them to do something shady like purposely clog up the road to get some stupid bill passed.

holy shit we sorta agree here

i didnt get the feeling last year was as bad, maybe im just being too picky...just seems like since we started talking about a "toll" things have gotten worse...like originally said..im typically not a conspiracy guy. This one just kinda stinks, especially with MR UTAH Law maker being inconvenienced by us dirtbag skiers....guess he doesnt get that both BCC and LCC bring quite a bit of tourist revenue, and there aint enough beds in either canyon to have all of them stay up in the canyon at the resorts.

[The SnowShow]

LCC is the new I70.

[Benny Profane]

You live in a city that is really big, by western standards, and is growing rapidly. It's the only place in America that produces more white babies than non white. The term is sprawl. Massive sprawl, unregulated. Add to that thousands and thousands of tourists who want to ski Alta Bird without spending the money for a bed up there. There's your problem. And it will be worse next year, and the year after that.

[Supermoon]

I think a toll, combined with expanded bus service, would be the only way to decrease traffic up LCC. What they do with the money is another issue all together, but from a traffic standpoint, you have to make it harder to drive up and easier to take the bus.

I always thought they should shut down the road and just run a train up the canyon.

[Skidog]

You live in a city that is really big, by western standards, and is growing rapidly. It's the only place in America that produces more white babies than non white. The term is sprawl. Massive sprawl, unregulated. Add to that thousands and thousands of tourists who want to ski Alta Bird without spending the money for a bed up there. There's your problem. And it will be worse next year, and the year after that.

pretty much a big part of the problem...and I am also part of that problem...im surely not "local". I do live here, but....

[Skidog]

I think a toll, combined with expanded bus service, would be the only way to decrease traffic up LCC. What they do with the money is another issue all together, but from a traffic standpoint, you have to make it harder to drive up and easier to take the bus.

I always thought they should shut down the road and just run a train up the canyon.

find me a train that can handle that grade with any decent speed. It would take hours for a train to make it up that canyon...now personally, i'd propose a gondola...less infrastructure...much less "eyesore". probably a 45 min trip...8ish per car...couple hundred cars.

Snow tunnels are a good idea, but do ZERO to combat the SLC pollution issue. A gondola would keep greenhouse gasses a bit lower...Then its either gondola or bus....no cars up the canyon. put some more beds in the existing parking lots and you have an even bigger win..

[Dantheman]

And it will be worse next year, and the year after that.

Sadly, Benny's not wrong. When the kiddo is grown up, I might seriously consider VRBOing my house for the winter and riding bikes in the desert Dec-Mar.

I always thought they should shut down the road and just run a train up the canyon.

We've been over this before, a train would cost ~$10 billion and has many of the same drawbacks as a bus fleet. You could snowshed the road from Gate B to Alta for far less. If you can avoid avy control closures you fix a lot of the problem.

find me a train that can handle that grade with any decent speed. It would take hours for a train to make it up that canyon...now personally, i'd propose a gondola...less infrastructure...much less "eyesore". probably a 45 min trip...8ish per car...couple hundred cars.

Snow tunnels are a good idea, but do ZERO to combat the SLC pollution issue. A gondola would keep greenhouse gasses a bit lower...Then its either gondola or bus....no cars up the canyon. put some more beds in the existing parking lots and you have an even bigger win..

Gondola will. never. happen. Neat idea, but not a chance in hell. LCC traffic means squat in terms of overall air pollution loading. Also, like the train and all proposed bus service improvements, down-canyon dispersed users are SOL without a private vehicle option.

[Supermoon]

find me a train that can handle that grade with any decent speed.

May I suggest a....

We've been over this before, a train would cost ~$10 billion and has many of the same drawbacks as a bus fleet. You could snowshed the road from Gate B to Alta for far less. If you can avoid avy control closures you fix a lot of the problem.

I didn't know it had been discussed here before. I think the traffic issue is only one of the problems. Air pollution and compromising the watershed are also big issues with too many cars going up the road.

[Skidog]

May I suggest a....




I didn't know it had been discussed here before. I think the traffic issue is only one of the problems. Air pollution and compromising the watershed are also big issues with too many cars going up the road.

from Wiki

Grades
Rubber-tired monorails are typically designed to cope with a 6% grade.[32] Rubber-tired light rail or metro lines can cope with similar or greater grades - for example, the Lausanne Metro has grades of up to 12% and the Montreal Metro up to 6.5%,[33] while VAL systems can handle 7% grades.[34]

LCC averages 8-9% grade the ENTIRE length of the road...8 miles...pretty sure that 12% for Lausanne is only a small portion an is very slow through that portion. Not to mention the ugly factor of a train up say LCC creek...

Longest span of towers on a current gondola...2.5miles. LCC Roughly 8 miles....conservatively lets say 20 total towers on the creek side. Minimal compared to 8miles of raised railroad. Would also very likely move a hell of a lot more people faster.. remember that train would be limited on how many cars could handle the weight up the grade, say 100 passengers per ride..thats like 12 gondola cars..surely you'll have more than 12..maybe 200 or more. All filled 1600 people.