LCC Road closure conspiracy?

[Benny Profane]

I've had some excellent beer in Utah. Whiskey too!

You were in Park City. That's not Utah.

[Skidog]

You were in Park City. That's not Utah.

2 words Epic Brewery

and thats just one great beer spot in the state where you cant even get a drink....

[Benny Profane]

Didya have to eat something, too?

[raueda1]

find me a train that can handle that grade with any decent speed. It would take hours for a train to make it up that canyon...now personally, i'd propose a gondola...less infrastructure...much less "eyesore". probably a 45 min trip...8ish per car...couple hundred cars.

Snow tunnels are a good idea, but do ZERO to combat the SLC pollution issue. A gondola would keep greenhouse gasses a bit lower...Then its either gondola or bus....no cars up the canyon. put some more beds in the existing parking lots and you have an even bigger win..

You've obviously never used the mountain train systems in Switzerland. I'd give my left nut for a serious, Swiss-grade train up there.

[Benny Profane]

no bullshit but im still kinda not in the autonomous car boat quite yet....Guess its the first step in getting us used to our mechanical overlords...Think of it this way..how many times have you had to "reboot" your windows machine for it to magically "work" again normally..what happens when the car computer decides to not "work" correctly? Will there always be an override? you're a passenger though...what good would an override do? Yeah sure...they'll put redundant systems in place, but even redundant systems can fail, and its only worth so much to place redundancy everywhere would just put consumer costs far too high. Redundancy is also only as good as the logic behind it. Ive seen more than enough redundant systems fail due to poor logic. Its neat shit, but we're just arent even close to mass scale yet..start putting 100,000's of those things on the road and you'll start to see their weaknesses pretty quick i'll bet.

[/end thread drift]

So many issues about robot cars that have to be worked out, but, one thing I read that I never thought of is, just think how disgusting the interiors of those vehicles are going to be after just a few months of use. People are going to do all sorts of, ahem, shit in them.

[skaredshtles]

So many issues about robot cars that have to be worked out,

Such as?

but, one thing I read that I never thought of is, just think how disgusting the interiors of those vehicles are going to be after just a few months of use. People are going to do all sorts of, ahem, shit in them.

Fortunately - that will be someone else's problem.

[Supermoon]

Didya have to eat something, too?

Was in PC over the weekend and our way out of town we stopped to buy some beer from the Squatters right there. 10:30 am on a Sunday. They sold us a six pack, but we had to also buy chips and salsa.

Fucking Utah.

[Skidog]

You've obviously never used the mountain train systems in Switzerland. I'd give my left nut for a serious, Swiss-grade train up there.

Research my man. I posted steepest grade, non fenicular (slow as balls) trains. I've heard of the Swiss trains. They do not apply for the type of volume needed in LCC, but thanks for playing. There still is the excess infrastructure needed for a train up LCC, it would need to be elevated track...that's a lot of work...

Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

[Benny Profane]

Such as?.

Not sure this is sarcasm. I don't know about you, but, I'm waiting for them to put a few hundred thousand rides through the paces with no injuries to occupants and non occupants before I Uber one of those motherfuckers to take me up a snow filled canyon at dawn. Betcha there will still be a pile of puke on the floor from the night before.

Besides, it's stupid and greedy thinking, anyway. Why not take the bus? You know, the one that's been around for like fifty years? Problem solved. But, no, the techies want you to believe that everybody riding solo in one of their robots is more efficient. Right.

[goldengatestinx]

Not sure this is sarcasm. I don't know about you, but, I'm waiting for them to put a few hundred thousand rides through the paces with no injuries to occupants and non occupants before I Uber one of those motherfuckers to take me up a snow filled canyon at dawn. Betcha there will still be a pile of puke on the floor from the night before.

Besides, it's stupid and greedy thinking, anyway. Why not take the bus? You know, the one that's been around for like fifty years? Problem solved. But, no, the techies want you to believe that everybody riding solo in one of their robots is more efficient. Right.

Combine the car with the Japanese automatic cleaning crappers. They spray down the interior after each use.

As for the train it'll never fly. Billion dollars or so for a few days worth of overloaded road fix? Only a couple ski areas so at least that isn't as much of an issue as it would be in CO but there will never be the rider volume to get anyone to sign off in it.

[WasatchFlatlander]

If you really want to solve it, you just need to be able to raise the lift ticket prices for everyone skiing on pow days. Ticket pricing driven by snow conditions.

[skaredshtles]

Not sure this is sarcasm. I don't know about you, but, I'm waiting for them to put a few hundred thousand rides through the paces with no injuries to occupants and non occupants before I Uber one of those motherfuckers to take me up a snow filled canyon at dawn.

Who would have imagined you'd be such a delicate flower?

Besides, it's stupid and greedy thinking, anyway. Why not take the bus? You know, the one that's been around for like fifty years? Problem solved. But, no, the techies want you to believe that everybody riding solo in one of their robots is more efficient. Right.

The buses will be self-driving sooner than any of the rest.

[skifishbum]

if herb signs it uta and its sad shit of mismanaged overfuckin paid insider cronies are done
now will tdu be any better
i doubt it
but it would be hard to suck more

[Dantheman]

no bullshit but im still kinda not in the autonomous car boat quite yet....Guess its the first step in getting us used to our mechanical overlords...Think of it this way..how many times have you had to "reboot" your windows machine for it to magically "work" again normally..what happens when the car computer decides to not "work" correctly? Will there always be an override? you're a passenger though...what good would an override do? Yeah sure...they'll put redundant systems in place, but even redundant systems can fail, and its only worth so much to place redundancy everywhere would just put consumer costs far too high. Redundancy is also only as good as the logic behind it. Ive seen more than enough redundant systems fail due to poor logic. Its neat shit, but we're just arent even close to mass scale yet..start putting 100,000's of those things on the road and you'll start to see their weaknesses pretty quick i'll bet.

[/end thread drift]

Uber has autonomous trucks hauling commercial freight in AZ right now: https://www.cnet.com/news/uber-self-...-move-freight/ It's only rural long-haul routes in a snow-free state, but it's a reality right now. Computers already control a multitude of mission-critical systems. It's not a certainty, but for the purpose of a discussion of long-shot hypotheticals I'll put the odds of viable autonomous vehicle fleets servicing LCC at > a gondola going in up LCC.

Think of it like a ground-based gondola, but with cars that could pick people up and drop them off anywhere. Peak demand times, early mornings on weekends, would generally be times of weak demand in the rest of the city.

Fortunately, the autonomous cars' "weaknesses" will still PALE in comparison to the human drivers' weaknesses. And that will keep us on the right track.

Exactly. Humans are not going to get better at driving, but computers are only going to improve. The fundamentals of driving in the snow are not that complicated: slow down, manage power delivery, increase following/stopping distance. Any company that invests in something like this in places where it snows regularly is probably going to use AWD vehicles equipped with winter tires half the year anyway.

So many issues about robot cars that have to be worked out, but, one thing I read that I never thought of is, just think how disgusting the interiors of those vehicles are going to be after just a few months of use. People are going to do all sorts of, ahem, shit in them.

Pro detailers can make the dirtiest interiors like new in an hour for $200. Do that once a month and it's still pocket change compared to paying a human driver.

[Skidog]

Uber has autonomous trucks hauling commercial freight in AZ right now: https://www.cnet.com/news/uber-self-...-move-freight/ It's only rural long-haul routes in a snow-free state, but it's a reality right now. Computers already control a multitude of mission-critical systems.

VERY small sample sizes...how great were the kingpins when only a few had them? Pretty good as I recall. Now that there are tons of them in the wild..their weaknesses are showing.

Id expect autonomous cars to follow pretty closely in line, its kinda a learning thing...work out the kinks. You wont be able to effectively do that until there are literally 100's of THOUSANDS of these things on the road..

I wont even start with the ability to hack these things....no thanks for now. OnStar can turn on and off your car at MINIMUM...i belive they can do a lot more...imagine a hacker getting into that network and randomly shutting down cars? Nothing is unhackable if its connected to a network. PERIOD.

ETA:Uber always has a safety operator who's a licensed truck driver at the wheel of the self-driving trucks, Woodrow said. These drivers are also trained in controlling autonomous vehicles. Certain situations, such as construction zones or accidents, can present challenges for the trucks, and a human driver may need to take over.

Thing still needs a fucking "driver" thats hardly "autonomous"....NEXT PLEASE

[Dantheman]

Thing still needs a fucking "driver" thats hardly "autonomous"....NEXT PLEASE

Says the guy who can't stop humping the idea of a canyon-long gondola up LCC.

Probability of a gondola up LCC = 0

Probability of Level 5 autonomous vehicles becoming reality > 0

[F#*k you cat]

Probability of Niederhauser turning SR210 into a toll road 97%
Probability of UTA mis-managing said funds from toll road 100%

[Skidog]

Says the guy who can't stop humping the idea of a canyon-long gondola up LCC.

Probability of a gondola up LCC = 0

Probability of Level 5 autonomous vehicles becoming reality > 0

not anywhere near in time to solve any near term solutions...sorry. This is still YEARS away...you could have present day alternatives put in place much quicker.

[Dantheman]

not anywhere near in time to solve any near term solutions...sorry. This is still YEARS away...you could have present day alternatives put in place much quicker.

What alternatives? A train or gondola? Permitting, funding, inevitable lawsuits, and construction for either will take 10-15 years. Full-length snowsheds could be done faster, maybe, but that wasn't even proposed as a hypothetical during Mountain Accord.

[Skidog]

What alternatives? A train or gondola? Permitting, funding, inevitable lawsuits, and construction for either will take 10-15 years. Full-length snowsheds could be done faster, maybe, but that wasn't even proposed as a hypothetical during Mountain Accord.

it takes 10 years to built a gondola? News to me...dont think thats at all true.. a train is just way too much work..gondola is way less impact, even over tunnels IMHO. towers would be on the creek side...low....below road grade and could easily be colored to "blend" in. A train would never "blend" in.

You'll have the same environmental groups all over you for snow tunnels and they wont solve a pollution problem even semi long term (if your autonomous car thing takes off). Its not like you put a tarp over the avie paths..those things will need to be massively constructed..

so your answer is wait (however long) for an autonomous car solution and hope it happens in the next 10 years? Ok...good luck.

[BobMc]

You seriously don't think Save Our Canyons is just going to go, "Oh, a gondola? Sure, have at it."

[Skidog]

You seriously don't think Save Our Canyons is just going to go, "Oh, a gondola? Sure, have at it."

no....but why not propose it? The toll idea sucks and I believe you agree there...its seems to me a more "elegant" less intrusive solution to the current problem...and FUCK SOC

[#######]

no....but why not propose it? The toll idea sucks and I believe you agree there...its seems to me a more "elegant" less intrusive solution to the current problem...and FUCK SOC

The gondola would have to be broken into at least three stations minimum and would still need to be closed to the public during control work. Then there is the task of evacuation in the event of a mechanical failure, not to mention high winds. Seasonal operation and maintenance costs would be staggering.

[joetron]

I’ve said it before and will say it again: Turn the gravel pit into a TOD with massive multi-level parking garage and run BRT up both Canyons. Bus volume would obviously be reduced in summertime, but busses up and down both canyons in summer to reduce congestion and TH parking issues is necessary as well. Could even run them up Mill Creek from there. Tolls/annual passes at both canyons if folks still want to drive up for camping and #vanlifing

[skifishbum]

im listening to the krcl democracy now show a month or so ago on my way home
and just how fucked up that mountain accord waste of tax dollars is mind bogglin
there being sued for not following simple laws so the gift horses ass keeps giving
fuckfaced chazetts land swap bill got laughed outta committee by his bros
and thankfully hes moved on
so listening to carl fischer trying to justify spending 7.5 million
5.6 of the states dollar dollar bills yall
to basically accomplish nothing and fuck that up
leads me to believe they catered the closed door meetings with the finest pots they could find
after consulting a consultant of consulting firms on which weed consultant they should use
and overpaid em all
cereally trying to justify what youre now calling "laying the foundation" for the next waste of tax dollars growth study expenditure is some stoned to the bejeebus mountain hippie shit.
we can only hope more monies can get the happy ending next time
only hopes greg can bring more jerries back to the motherland or keep em there and

Where are you thinking?

hes just keepin it on the downlow