LCC Road closure conspiracy?

[ncskier]

I’ve asked this question before, but with all the doom and gloom about ageing boomers dropping the sport of skiing, we may all be suffering from selection bias. It’s important to us, a small subset of users, but for many who have to pay taxes, they just don’t care. Plus as someone who flies in to slc many times each season, it seems the majority of tourists are happily heading over to pc area. I mean the majority. On my last flight out two weeks ago the couple sitting next to me had never heard of solitude or Brighton. They were going to park city, canyons area. Shudder.
Perhaps there should be some type of additional transit tax collected on lift tickets to charge actual users.
Nobody has answered me before,but I’d almost argue the revenue of winter sports in bcc/lcc may not even cover the cost of plowing, bombing, salting and patrolling with the cut the county gets from tax revenue. It may be slightly more but park city may throw more into the coffers during Sundance then Brighton does all season.
A toll may cut down on gapers getting wedding photos on a Saturday though and people wanting to see moose also. Just have a scanner or rfid. If my pass went up $100 a year to contribute so be it.
The resorts should be helping also.


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[Todds]

....

The problem with "free" bus rides is UTA is bleeding money. Sales tax covers 70% of UTA's operating budget. Federal money, advertising on buses and other sources cover another 15%. Fares don't cover much but UTA has $2 billion in debt and late last year authorized another $88 million in borrowing. They currently spend 25% of their budget for debt service, not a good place to be. As been stated before with the rapid growth in the valley better transportation options for residents, every day of the year is a better place for them to spend money. While sitting in a line a traffic may be inconvenient to skiers sitting on I-15 to and from work every day is a bigger priority.

Whats the deal with those UTA vans that make one round trip per day? Is that for resort workers? How does UTA justify the cost of a van that runs once a day?

[SJG]

I chatted with a SB employee a couple days ago, he said he takes the UTA Van up pre-closure for ops, along with other SB employees.

Probably a lot cheaper to run than a bus.

[joetron]

Private companies can apply for a UTA van pool vehicle- Im not quite sure how it works though. BC.com has one from SLC up to the Kimball Jct office

[Nevada29er]

I almost missed my bus back in Feb cause my CC didn't have the "invisible" chip needed to work, and left my cash in the car because I assumed the busses were free!

That parking lot at the base of LCC sure fills up fast too. Never see anyone Q'd up at the stop down by the shopping center, so I didn't want to chance that one.

[bigdude2468]

If you are talking about the 9400 S lot there is plenty of parking. The buses pick up on the south end of the lot, it gets plenty of riders. If that lot is anyway convenient park there. On a busy day at the mouth of LCC you will be standing, seat will be gone.

[Shredhead]

I’ve only used the UTA bus service a couple of times, because compared to Aspen’s, it’s a cluster fuck.
But Aspen’s is also funded by a 1% real estate transfer tax. That would probably be a hard sell in SLC.

[ncskier]

I’ve only used the UTA bus service a couple of times, because compared to Aspen’s, it’s a cluster fuck.
But Aspen’s is also funded by a 1% real estate transfer tax. That would probably be a hard sell in SLC.

I’m sure 1 house sale in aspen may be equal to about 80-100 homes in the metro slc area.


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[new yabyum]

I’ve only used the UTA bus service a couple of times, because compared to Aspen’s, it’s a cluster fuck.
But Aspen’s is also funded by a 1% real estate transfer tax. That would probably be a hard sell in SLC.

Utah is run by and for real estate agents and property developers. Niederhauser and Hughes will never let that happen.

[Lone Star]

conspiracy=yes, government=no. emps of the town's lodges each pitch in $10 on big weekend storm nights and that's enough to buy a $500 beater car and pay a vagrant to get it stuck halfway up the canyon. we do appreciate your powder panic and enthusiasm and have been enjoying the quiet pow mornings on holiday weekends!

[Dantheman]

^Hah!

Like I said earlier, it's been a long time since I regularly drove up LCC in the winter. But, traffic shitshows were plenty common back then, too. I also don't ever recall UPD being aggressive about 4WD/snow tire enforcement. So, I still find Hanlon's razor to be the most plausible explanation here.

[tuco]

UPD being aggressive about 4WD/snow tire enforcement.

This is totally the problem.
It's worse than just letting the goobs go off the road. Ticket/ fine and a tow bill. Fuck ' em.

[bigdude2468]

This is totally the problem.
It's worse than just letting the goobs go off the road. Ticket/ fine and a tow bill. Fuck ' em.

Had someone tell me that early this season when UPD did the full blown tire inspections at the mouth of LCC the resorts complained about them being overly aggressive. If this is true we have the conspiracy to fuck up the road and force a big money solution. Only problem is the State of Utah does not have a history of spending BIG money in this fashion.

[bigdude2468]

Had a chance to talk with an Alta Town Marshall earlier this week and asked him about the lack of UPD officers at the mouth of the Canyon on restricted days. Surprisingly he was unaware that they were not checking. He did mentioned that UPD has a new Sergeant responsible for the canyon and maybe he made the change. I said I was asking due to the letter the Town issued asking for cooperation on snowy days. I said it seems odd that the Town asks skiers to car pool, take public transportation etc and then have two wheel drive vehicles with bald tires driving up the canyon. He mentioned that he had written a ticket during the last storm. A ticket? they should be writing 25 tickets on a powder day. So it appears that no one really seems to care. My guess is the Town has taken the position NOT to do anything as long as the vehicle can make it that far.

I always assumed the UPD and Town Marshall were working closely on road issues, apparently not so much.

[Skidog]

Had a chance to talk with an Alta Town Marshall earlier this week and asked him about the lack of UPD officers at the mouth of the Canyon on restricted days. Surprisingly he was unaware that they were not checking. He did mentioned that UPD has a new Sergeant responsible for the canyon and maybe he made the change. I said I was asking due to the letter the Town issued asking for cooperation on snowy days. I said it seems odd that the Town asks skiers to car pool, take public transportation etc and then have two wheel drive vehicles with bald tires driving up the canyon. He mentioned that he had written a ticket during the last storm. A ticket? they should be writing 25 tickets on a powder day. So it appears that no one really seems to care. My guess is the Town has taken the position NOT to do anything as long as the vehicle can make it that far.

I always assumed the UPD and Town Marshall were working closely on road issues, apparently not so much.

Oooh that sweetens my conspiracy. He didn't know they weren't? New Sgt? Hmmmm

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[tmokes]

Build a Mormon church up there and the problem will be addressed and solved quickly.


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[Skidog]

Build a Mormon church up there and the problem will be addressed and solved quickly.


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Ooooh. Great idea.

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[bigdude2468]

Good idea, they don't do anything without a plan.

[bigdude2468]

Had a chance to talk with an Alta Town Marshall earlier this week and asked him about the lack of UPD officers at the mouth of the Canyon on restricted days. Surprisingly he was unaware that they were not checking. He did mentioned that UPD has a new Sergeant responsible for the canyon and maybe he made the change. I said I was asking due to the letter the Town issued asking for cooperation on snowy days. I said it seems odd that the Town asks skiers to car pool, take public transportation etc and then have two wheel drive vehicles with bald tires driving up the canyon. He mentioned that he had written a ticket during the last storm. A ticket? they should be writing 25 tickets on a powder day. So it appears that no one really seems to care. My guess is the Town has taken the position NOT to do anything as long as the vehicle can make it that far.

I always assumed the UPD and Town Marshall were working closely on road issues, apparently not so much.

I asked the Town of Alta Mayor via email about no enforcement at the bottom of LCC, his response was eye opening.

"checking each and every car on its way into the canyon would slow down traffic immensely, beyond the current delays. In addition to the timing issue, there is not really a good place currently to turn traffic around, I've been informed, which would cause further delay. Finally, the UPD doesn't have the funding to have the staff to accomplish this tactic, were we to want it anyway.

Wonder how they afforded to do in years past and they seemed to be able to manage turning cars around?

He assured me the experts are working on solutions...

[Skidog]

I asked the Town of Alta Mayor via email about no enforcement at the bottom of LCC, his response was eye opening.

"checking each and every car on its way into the canyon would slow down traffic immensely, beyond the current delays. In addition to the timing issue, there is not really a good place currently to turn traffic around, I've been informed, which would cause further delay. Finally, the UPD doesn't have the funding to have the staff to accomplish this tactic, were we to want it anyway.

Wonder how they afforded to do in years past and they seemed to be able to manage turning cars around?

He assured me the experts are working on solutions...

Scam or a method to force a "solution". I think they just want a toll road to fill coffers.

Like you said. Somehow they've done it in past year. What changed? I don't recall seeing my taxes go down. They could easily add another lane into the park and ride to turn people around. Just widen it, if that's the excuse. Seems bullshit to me

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[Dantheman]

Scam or a method to force a "solution". I think they just want a toll road to fill coffers.

I doubt TofA would get a cut of the toll road proceeds. Does still seem like a bullshit excuse, but I also don't remember UPD ever being aggressive about 4wd/tire enforcement in the past, either. Shit, that's why the early season enforcement announcement was such a surprise.

[Skidog]

I doubt TofA would get a cut of the toll road proceeds. Does still seem like a bullshit excuse, but I also don't remember UPD ever being aggressive about 4wd/tire enforcement in the past, either. Shit, that's why the early season enforcement announcement was such a surprise.

I used to see them turn folks around. Either no go or put on chains. Not often but it happened. It's just all very different this season it seems. Maybe just an anamoly.

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[tuco]

I used to see them turn folks around. Either no go or put on chains. Not often but it happened. It's just all very different this season it seems. Maybe just an anamoly.

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CP stationed @ entrance of canyon is nothing new. They would signal cars that didn't look like they would make it for whatever reason, to pull aside and put on chains or turn around. Stoping basically all cars to check tires and tires ratings when cars are stacked up is the problem.

[Todds]

I asked the Town of Alta Mayor via email about no enforcement at the bottom of LCC, his response was eye opening.

"checking each and every car on its way into the canyon would slow down traffic immensely, beyond the current delays. In addition to the timing issue, there is not really a good place currently to turn traffic around, I've been informed, which would cause further delay. Finally, the UPD doesn't have the funding to have the staff to accomplish this tactic, were we to want it anyway.

Wonder how they afforded to do in years past and they seemed to be able to manage turning cars around?

He assured me the experts are working on solutions...

Checking each car on every morning would take a long time. Maybe they could put a little window sticker on cars that have passed inspection so that they won't need to be checked the next time. Maybe we could stop by a police station and get those stickers before we even go up.

The extra cost for UPD would be way less than adding lanes, building a train or building a gondola.

How much of the problem is poorly equipped cars and how much is volume? The tolls aren't going to help a car with bald tires get up the road.

The tolls won't deter the tourists, in their poorly equipped rental cars, and we will still have their volume.

Has anyone heard how much they plan to charge for the tolls?

[thebirdhunter]

The Alta Mayor is full of shit.

It changed when canyon law enforcement went from the Salt Lake County Sheriff to UPD.

Back in the day (the 90's) the sheriff was there on every single powder day checking cars. They would park in the middle of the road about where the exit to the P & R is. They weren't stopping and checking every car. The sheriff would sit in his car waving 4WD looking cars by and only stopping cars that looked like 2WD. I saw lots of cars get turned around back then, don't see many get turned around much lately. If 2WD cars had chains on they would wave them through without stopping them. Traffic seemed to move along just fine. When the canyon road is snow covered it's slow going if someone is checking for 4WD vehicle's or not.