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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    I think you're missing the point.

    If something requires a blanket lifetime warranty in order for you consider buying it, you should probably avoid it like the plague.


    Where did I say I required a blanket lifetime warranty?

    You're missing my point about not wanting to deal with a EUR company and that the SC warranty is better than anyone else's warranty on carbon which makes it a solid consideration. Not to mention the price is decent, more than Light Bicycle but that's dealing w/Ghina

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Where did I say I required a blanket lifetime warranty?

    You're missing my point about not wanting to deal with a EUR company and that the SC warranty is better than anyone else's warranty on carbon which makes it a solid consideration. Not to mention the price is decent, more than Light Bicycle but that's dealing w/Ghina
    You're still missing the point. People are saying the warranty is the main reason to buy Santa Cruz wheels. I say it's a huge red flag.

    Ooops.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/santa-...irst-ride.html

    Oops...

    There was one small snafu that happened after only a few shuttle runs on the Nomad ó I cracked the rear rim. Yes, that brand new Santa Cruz Reserve carbon rim met its untimely demise when I came up a foot short on a stepdown, smacking the rear wheel squarely into one of the cedar logs that formed the backside of the landing. Time to make use of that lifetime warranty and 24-hour turnaround... The incident was fully user error, and I'm sure that there would have been some sort of damage even if I'd been on an aluminum rim. Santa Cruz has since sent out a replacement, and I'll be putting this one to the test over the coming months in order to see how it holds up.
    Last edited by Jonny Snow; 03-07-2018 at 06:06 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    You're still missing the point. People are saying the warranty is the main reason to buy Santa Cruz wheels. I say it's a huge red flag.

    Ooops.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/santa-...irst-ride.html
    Everything breaks. Aluminum rims break and are cheaper to replace. Carbon rims break and are expensive to replace. Anyone who says their rims/wheels are indestructible is lying.

    Having a generous warranty/replacement policy indicates that a manufacturer stands behind their product and expects a low enough failure rate, and reduces the financial risk associated with buying something super-expensive that's subject to continuous impact.

  4. #54
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    This thread is proving one thing. Jonny is not understanding anyone but himself.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    This thread is proving one thing. Jonny is not understanding anyone but himself.
    Jonny likes him sum Jonny, or is that Jongy?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by D(C) View Post
    Everything breaks. Aluminum rims break and are cheaper to replace. Carbon rims break and are expensive to replace. Anyone who says their rims/wheels are indestructible is lying.

    Having a generous warranty/replacement policy indicates that a manufacturer stands behind their product and expects a low enough failure rate, and reduces the financial risk associated with buying something super-expensive that's subject to continuous impact.
    That's the point. But I'd rather pay $70 up front for a Stan's rim and replace as needed, than pay many hundreds for what amounts to an insurance policy. We all know how insurance works, don't we?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    This thread is proving one thing. Jonny is not understanding anyone but himself.
    It's quite clear that I've considered these concepts more fully than most people here.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    That's the point. But I'd rather pay $70 up front for a Stan's rim and replace as needed, than pay many hundreds for what amounts to an insurance policy. We all know how insurance works, don't we?
    So we should ignore all performance gains?

    The difference is noticeable. Worth it? ... that probably depends on your wallet depth.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eluder View Post
    So we should ignore all performance gains?

    The difference is noticeable. Worth it? ... that probably depends on your wallet depth.
    The weights and internal widths are virtually identical. Is the stiffness and durability a very large difference.....?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    The weights and internal widths are virtually identical. Is the stiffness and durability a very large difference.....?
    I would argue that 50grams on a rim isn't something to ignore. Thats the difference of a high quality carbon rim (knight composites Enduro) vs a high quality light aluminum (Stans Flow MK3). I would also add that the aluminum rim at that weight probably should have another 20 grams metal on it for added durability but people wanted it lighter so they make it way. I find the ride difference is very noticeable climbing and descending but Im fucking slow with either of them so it really doesn't matter.

    I am not saying this is what we should have on all our bikes. Personally I wouldn't pay retail for any of them for any of my bikes but there are people with more disposable income than me out there.... so yeah what were were saying about dentists?
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  11. #61
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    At 50gm, this becomes another Empty Beer debate.
    If you have the means, get yourself whatever fucking wheelset your heart desires and get on with it. It'll be nice. It won't make you better, but it might make you more smug. Especially online.
    If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it tubeless, I will. I got spare time.

  12. #62
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    I'm just here to say I bought a set of Enve m60 on 240s with tires I want (2.5 DHF / 2.4 MK) for $700. Hardly used by a pro rider, as they were her back-up wheels

    And they are fkn awesome.

    I'm just here to gloat.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech Tonics View Post
    I'm just here to say I bought a set of Enve m60 on 240s with tires I want (2.5 DHF / 2.4 MK) for $700. Hardly used by a pro rider, as they were her back-up wheels

    And they are fkn awesome.

    I'm just here to gloat.
    Yeah, you suck

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Yeah, you suck
    he does, that kinda deal would make my wheelset choice super easy.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eluder View Post
    I would argue that 50grams on a rim isn't something to ignore. Thats the difference of a high quality carbon rim (knight composites Enduro) vs a high quality light aluminum (Stans Flow MK3). I would also add that the aluminum rim at that weight probably should have another 20 grams metal on it for added durability but people wanted it lighter so they make it way. I find the ride difference is very noticeable climbing and descending but Im fucking slow with either of them so it really doesn't matter.

    I am not saying this is what we should have on all our bikes. Personally I wouldn't pay retail for any of them for any of my bikes but there are people with more disposable income than me out there.... so yeah what were were saying about dentists?
    LOL, what? The Santa Cruz Reserve 30 rim is 470g while a Stan's Flow MK3 (29mm internal) is 480g, in 650b. The Santa Cruz Reserve 27 rim is 435g while a Stan's Arch MK3 (26mm internal) is 425g, in 650b. That's "virtually identical" weights and internal widths.
    Last edited by Jonny Snow; 03-12-2018 at 05:58 PM.

  16. #66
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    Just thought Iíd throw out an alternative. Iím on the E13 TRSr SL Carbon wheels and love them. Iíve beat the crap out of them last year and they are still perfect. E13 now has lifetime warranty on all carbon wheels and rims as well, and their carbon wheels can be found at a few online retailers for under $1300 (I paid $1275 from Worldwide). PB just did a good review on the TRSr SLís too. And if it matters Gwin rides E13 carbon!!! Ha.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Martha's just polishing the brass on the Titanic....

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by milkman View Post
    Just thought I’d throw out an alternative. I’m on the E13 TRSr SL Carbon wheels and love them. I’ve beat the crap out of them last year and they are still perfect. E13 now has lifetime warranty on all carbon wheels and rims as well, and their carbon wheels can be found at a few online retailers for under $1300 (I paid $1275 from Worldwide). PB just did a good review on the TRSr SL’s too. And if it matters Gwin rides E13 carbon!!! Ha.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Thanks for chiming in with a suggestion, I got bored of my own thread when it went down Jonny road

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Thanks for chiming in with a suggestion, I got bored of my own thread when it went down Jonny road
    So sorry I polluted your thread with facts, common sense and good advice. Don't let me get in the way of your hype train.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by milkman View Post
    Just thought I’d throw out an alternative. I’m on the E13 TRSr SL Carbon wheels and love them. I’ve beat the crap out of them last year and they are still perfect. E13 now has lifetime warranty on all carbon wheels and rims as well, and their carbon wheels can be found at a few online retailers for under $1300 (I paid $1275 from Worldwide). PB just did a good review on the TRSr SL’s too. And if it matters Gwin rides E13 carbon!!! Ha.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Not a bad wheelset overall, but I'd have a hard time paying over $500 for a wheelset with what appears to be no-name Asian built hubs.

  20. #70
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    Never mind what ski threads, how about a what wheelset thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    So sorry I polluted your thread with facts, common sense and good advice. Don't let me get in the way of your hype train.
    Advice? You cunted it up with your good advice bro

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    So sorry I polluted your thread with facts, common sense and good advice. Don't let me get in the way of your hype train.
    Yes, you sometimes make good points. But you're a dick about it too. You turn it in to a fight where anyone who doesn't come around to your point of view is just plain wrong. He asked for advice and suggestion so that he could pursue his frivolous dreams of spending too much money on a sport for people with cash to spare. You gave him a tireless debate and tried to convince the world that spending $500 on wheels is more noble than spending $1000 on wheels when we all know you can do just fine with $200 wheels.
    If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it tubeless, I will. I got spare time.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    Yes, you sometimes make good points. But you're a dick about it too. You turn it in to a fight where anyone who doesn't come around to your point of view is just plain wrong. He asked for advice and suggestion so that he could pursue his frivolous dreams of spending too much money on a sport for people with cash to spare. You gave him a tireless debate and tried to convince the world that spending $500 on wheels is more noble than spending $1000 on wheels when we all know you can do just fine with $200 wheels.
    My personal opinion is that you get into diminishing returns above around $500, which is my current benchmark wheelset of a custom Hope/Stans setup with butted spokes and alloy nipples. IF you want to spend more, the money is better spent on hubs like CK's or 240s. There are two exceptions to this:

    - You need a stiff 29er wheel 30mm internal with a rim less than 500g, then go carbon

    - You need a 35mm or greater plus bike rim under 500g, then go carbon
    Last edited by Jonny Snow; 03-15-2018 at 12:39 PM.

  23. #73
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    Aren't you the guy claiming Arch EX's (XC rim) is beefy enough for trail riding and comparing them to 450-500g carbon rims designed for enduro racing?

  24. #74
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    Came in here to post that Ibis 741s was the best bike related thing I have ever purchased. Running them last year or so on my Knolly Warden Carbon. Finished the last stage on an enduro race with a dead flat rear tire basically riding the bare rim through a scree field for over a mile. They make really fucking good wheels.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Snow View Post
    Not a bad wheelset overall, but I'd have a hard time paying over $500 for a wheelset with what appears to be no-name Asian built hubs.
    E13 builds their own hubs. 6 degrees of engagement and nice and loud like I9 (personal preference but I like the sound).


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    Martha's just polishing the brass on the Titanic....

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