Light, box-baffled down ski jacket

[auvgeek]

There are better options.

In your opinion, what's the best option currently available? People have been asking me in PMs and other thread, and plus my Effusion hoody might die soon.

[Norseman]

(ears open as well)

[auvgeek]

Norse, I think you're tall enough you could wear the Effusion hoody in size L, which was Steve's winner last I checked with him a while ago. Sometimes can be found cheaper elsewhere, but available here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Mounta...rd!21218!US!-1

[GeezerSteve]

I currently use two different next-to-skin semi-VB pieces, both made by MH, both hooded, both discontinued, both stretchy/snug fit (necessary), both always worn next to skin while moving. (In camp I sometimes put a thin base layer underneath)

For warmer tours and spring/summer mountain travel: MH Effusion hoody. I have two of them, both in poor shape although still functional. The ePTFE coating is starting to degrade in spots.

For most mid-winter tours: MH [can't recall name] hoody made of the thinnest lightest 3L Gore Windstopper I've ever seen. They are more durable than the Effusion. I have two of them, both in so so shape. (The seam tape has completely fallen off, but that's not necessary for semi-VB function). They are 3L, have a very thin tricot inside, quite comfy, less clammy than the Effusion, but too warm for spring/summer.

I hope to get another year or two out of my 4 items.

The future? The same super-thin Gore Windstopper as #2 is used for some bicycle jackets, although all (AFAIK) are hoodless. There are sometimes deals on these items. I'm sure they'd work fine as next-to-skin VBs, although it'd be nice to have a hood. A Gore Active (less expanded ePTFE than Windstopper) bicycle jacket would also work fine, although they aren't cheap.

[ryan b]

I sized up in the cho oyu to XL (normally a L) and love it for belay coat usage. Room for layers and a bit of extra length.

Face fabric isn't as ultralight but is pretty light. Mine has developed some small holes from snagging on things and bouldering in it and is sporting a fair amount of duct tape for one seasons use. I wouldn't use it for tree skiing on a regular basis. Plus its really too warm for skiing in temps above 15-20.

Why don't you just ski in the xenon or similar primaloft piece?

[auvgeek]

For most mid-winter tours: MH [can't recall name] hoody made of the thinnest lightest 3L Gore Windstopper I've ever seen. They are more durable than the Effusion. I have two of them, both in so so shape. (The seam tape has completely fallen off, but that's not necessary for semi-VB function). They are 3L, have a very thin tricot inside, quite comfy, less clammy than the Effusion, but too warm for spring/summer.

The MH Transition Hoody you recommended a few years back, maybe? If so, that one's too warm for me if it's over about 15F.

The future? The same super-thin Gore Windstopper as #2 is used for some bicycle jackets, although all (AFAIK) are hoodless. There are sometimes deals on these items. I'm sure they'd work fine as next-to-skin VBs, although it'd be nice to have a hood. A Gore Active (less expanded ePTFE than Windstopper) bicycle jacket would also work fine, although they aren't cheap.

I'll keep an eye out for these.

[jacob_dbu]

I love how every clothing thread devolves into a tutorial on semi-VB techniques lol

[auvgeek]

I sized up in the cho oyu to XL (normally a L) and love it for belay coat usage. Room for layers and a bit of extra length.

Face fabric isn't as ultralight but is pretty light. Mine has developed some small holes from snagging on things and bouldering in it and is sporting a fair amount of duct tape for one seasons use. I wouldn't use it for tree skiing on a regular basis. Plus its really too warm for skiing in temps above 15-20.

Yeah, I wish they made one with a bit burlier face fabric and maybe a bit less fill.

Why don't you just ski in the xenon or similar primaloft piece?

Cuz the Xenon has a light face fabric, and doesn't fit like a ski jacket = I end up with snow down my pants. I wanted something kinda long. But like I said, if the Dynafit or OR options aren't better than the Norrona powershield alpha I bought, I'll just stick with that.

I love how every clothing thread devolves into a tutorial on semi-VB techniques lol

At least this time I'm the thread starter, and it's an integral part of the reason I need this type of down jacket.

[rod9301]

Steve, is this what you are talking about?

https://www.amazon.com/Gore-Bike-Wea...2WQ?th=1&psc=1

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[GeezerSteve]

^ ^ ^ Nope, not quite. A zipper is required for venting if you're doing it right

[markcjr]

So in skinning. 10-40 degrees when it's cold, do you just wear this effusion jacket with nothing under it , and do you put something over it? Like if it starts snowing do you put a shell over it? Or is the temperature regulation from the semi vb enough alone to moderate temperature. Oftentimes I just wear a wicking top but it gets cold when the wind hits me. It would be nice to have something that cut the wind but kept a nice temperature against my body. Also do you have to wash it a lot as you sweat inside of it so oil get on the jacket?

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[auvgeek]

So in skinning. 10-40 degrees when it's cold, do you just wear this effusion jacket with nothing under it , and do you put something over it? Like if it starts snowing do you put a shell over it? Or is the temperature regulation from the semi vb enough alone to moderate temperature. Oftentimes I just wear a wicking top but it gets cold when the wind hits me. It would be nice to have something that cut the wind but kept a nice temperature against my body. Also do you have to wash it a lot as you sweat inside of it so oil get on the jacket

Basically, yes -- the effusion is worn next to skin (nothing under it) for most midwinter touring conditions for me. A shell is unnecessary 98% of the time -- basically, unless it's pouring rain (yuck) but you might need to add insulation over the top of it if it's less than 15-20F, depending on how hard you're working.

Hygiene concerns are about the only negative. I don't wash mine as often as I should...

I could see getting cold at 10F with only the effusion hoody, especially if it's windy. I usually switch to the Transition hoody if I know it's going to be under 10-15F. I recently got cold in my Transition Hoody skinning at conversational pace at altitude (aka moving very slowly) in sub-zero F temps with 20 mph winds. That never happened in the PNW -- welcome to CO, I guess. Had to add some insulation over it to be comfortable. But I can count on one hand the times I've gotten cold in one of the two semi-VBs and had to add insulation over top. YMMV. The nice thing about adding insulation on top is that you'll immediately notice when you start sweating and can adjust the temp -- so you won't end up a cold, sweaty mess afterwards.

[markcjr]

Cool, thanks. Interesting concept that has been discussed many times but this made it easy for me to understand. I think I will try it. Even if I don't like it I can use the jacket as a shell anyway for mountain biking or something

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[auvgeek]

Cool, thanks. Interesting concept that has been discussed many times but this made it easy for me to understand. I think I will try it. Even if I don't like it I can use the jacket as a shell anyway for mountain biking or something

Would be great to hear what you think. I don't know many people who are willing to give it a genuine try, but I don't know anyone who's tried it for a while and went back to conventional layering.

[CaliBrit]

So essentially if I want to try this, for winter touring I really want a close fitting, non insulated, zipped, hooded, Gore Windstopper jacket. Correct?

What about this?:

https://www.backcountry.com/gore-wea...ed-jacket-mens

[CaliBrit]

The future? The same super-thin Gore Windstopper as #2 is used for some bicycle jackets, although all (AFAIK) are hoodless. There are sometimes deals on these items. I'm sure they'd work fine as next-to-skin VBs, although it'd be nice to have a hood. A Gore Active (less expanded ePTFE than Windstopper) bicycle jacket would also work fine, although they aren't cheap.

Do you see much difference between regular goretex, gore windstopper or gore active for this application?

I understand their breathability is not that different?

[GeezerSteve]

What about this?:

https://www.backcountry.com/gore-wea...ed-jacket-mens

I probably could make that work. Is it stretchy?

Do you see much difference between regular goretex, gore windstopper or gore active for this application?

No. IME there's not much difference re vapor transmission rate with GTX Active, WS and Effusion fabric (some sort of ePTFE I think) when worn next-to-skin as semi-VB. Any difference in vapor transmission is abated by zipper venting. (Vapor transmission is very slow -- which is the point -- although all three fabric breathe enough to cook dry or near dry at a longer break, depending on conditions, if you're doing it right. FWIW, I've also experimented with various full or near-full VBs, e.g., Stephenson VB shirt, RBH shirt, and I much prefer a ePTFE semi-VB.

[bodywhomper]

Stephenson VB shirt

you started all of this because of the catalogs. admit it!

[GeezerSteve]

haha. Those catalogs with the nudes are great. I discovered Stephenson in the 1980s. One of my climbing buds had a c. 1980 3R tent and I was impressed at the size, light weight and stormworthiness compared to other options. I got a purple Stephenson VB shirt around 2000 and used it for a year or so. I climbed Mt. Rainier in it. The fuzz on the inside would get soaked, forcing me occasionally take it off and shake the sweat out of it. That prompted my experiments with semi-VBs. The Stephenson VB shirt would work great for me standing still in very cold temps (e.g., ice fishing) or maybe for someone who doesn't sweat much.

[sk8rat6587]

I actually like the Dynafit Vulcan more than the Cho Oyu. A little bit lighter and more packable. Breathable fabric strips in the pits, nearly as warm. Not sure if they still make it so it might be hard to find.

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[LightRanger]

Yo auvgeek and OldSteve,

Methinks this would be perfect for your semi-VB setup. Full size run at Sports Basement in the Bay Area.

Thin, WB (8k/8k), hooded, stretchy and tight fitting. Seams are taped.

And Craft stuff is awesome. I'm sure you're familiar.

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[Norseman]

Yo auvgeek and OldSteve,

Methinks this would be perfect for your semi-VB setup. Full size run at Sports Basement in the Bay Area.

Thin, WB (8k/8k), hooded, stretchy and tight fitting. Seams are taped.

And Craft stuff is awesome. I'm sure you're familiar.

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Oo, that might be the one.

[rod9301]

Is this jacket soft inside?

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[auvgeek]

Oo, that might be the one.

Reading their website, that jacket has "chimney vents in the sweat zones" so it won't work as a semi-VB. The gore one mentioned above seems more appropriate.

[Norseman]

Yeah... went looking for more info after I posted prematurely. Saw pics of the vents and thought, "might work to sew those shut..."

Fit and weight look better to me than the MHW one mentioned up thread