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02-20-2018, 09:01 PM #1Registered User
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BC guides in BC sued over fatal avalanche
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...suit-1.4543585
That waiver you signed when buddy the guide asked if you understood it ... does it stand up in court ??
I have requested an opinion from legal
this should be interesting eh?Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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02-20-2018, 09:27 PM #2Hailstone, UT
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1) The waiver should hold up in court
2) This is not interesting especially in canuck-ville. the litigious pricks are in the USA. I didn't think ya'lld even let this stuff go to court?
3) Lawsuits are usually about who has the deeper pockets. The guides I've met in Canada, while they have a sustaining life, I would not consider them in the deep-pocket crowd (even the ones w/ more than one hut), let alone the ones you pick up in a bar or from word-of-mouth. CMH, et. al., sure, maybe they've settled out-of-court a few times?
4) Heh, my neighbor's a guide. I tell him I don't need a guide to kill myself :-)
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02-20-2018, 09:37 PM #3
It will be interesting to see how things play out. If they can show the guide was negligent and acted against best practices... maybe? Gonna be hard to prove.
thankfully, CDN courts seem to less likely to support this type of litigation. I am a firm believe that litigation is killing the action sports industry. .. I have had the unpleasant experience of watching unnecessary litigation between a widow and an individual who was a friend of the deceased... thankfully, no wrongdoing was found. Still created a significant distress amongst the community."Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto
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02-20-2018, 09:37 PM #4Registered User
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02-20-2018, 09:44 PM #5
9 out 10 people buried... I don't know. on face value that is some poor group management, easy enough to armchair i guess, but if everyone is in the slid path it easy to assume someone fucked up.
."Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto
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02-20-2018, 10:11 PM #6
Doesn;t matter if there was negligence. Waiver's/Releases defeat negligence. Litigants can eat a BAG OF DICKS
More on waivers/releases and negligence http://www.leelau.net/sharonandlee/c...b-c-bikeparks/
Skiing references in there.
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02-20-2018, 10:21 PM #7
around the same time as that case, wasnt there was a case of mountain biker in ontario, who was successful? .. and did any of the skiing cases involve guides?
Its a total bumber for the individual's name in in the suit, regardless of how it plays. I hope they have insurance to protect themselves, even assuming they are not held responsible they will likely bear fiscal the burden of legal representation."Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto
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02-20-2018, 10:25 PM #8
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02-21-2018, 07:03 AM #9Registered User
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Waivers enable an operator to transfer responsibility for inherent risk to an informed individual, but they are not a blanket indemnification for gross negligence. The boundary between inherent risk and gross negligence as it applies to guided backcountry skiing will be the subject of this dispute. I’d be surprised if the guide’s conduct fell outside the scope of the comprehensive BLBC waiver, but I wasn’t there. I’ll be watching with interest.
Blogging at www.kootenayskier.wordpress.com
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02-21-2018, 08:39 AM #10
Hard to imagine that a bike park or ski hill waiver is the same as when you are guided.
at the hill, you are essentially self guiding. You get to make all the decisions and manage the risk. In the context of a professional guide, you are hiring that person to make the decisions for you. Professionals who are negligent are liable, regardless of how well informed of the risk the victims were. No?"Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto
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02-21-2018, 08:55 AM #11
This is a tough one.
On one hand, yes there was a major FUBAR in getting a whole party swept and buried.
On the other, snow and avalanche assessment are about as difficult as it gets.
I am not a fan of lawsuits but in this case the group management does sound a bit negligent. Unless the group disregarded what the guides instructed.I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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02-21-2018, 09:34 AM #12
Much to my surprise BCcourts have dismissed a case ruling that waiver excused even gross negligence. It was a Blackcomb case involving an instructor. I'll dig it up
S here it is.
https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/do...ocompletePos=1Last edited by LeeLau; 02-21-2018 at 10:13 AM.
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02-21-2018, 09:35 AM #13
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02-21-2018, 09:53 AM #14Registered User
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02-21-2018, 09:54 AM #15
wasn't there at least one lawsuit from the big SME avalanche?
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02-21-2018, 10:14 AM #16
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02-21-2018, 03:45 PM #17"Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto
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02-21-2018, 03:48 PM #18
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02-21-2018, 04:28 PM #19
Anyone have any links to a case study or a technical analysis of the actual avalanche incident?
Master of mediocrity.
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02-21-2018, 06:17 PM #20Hailstone, UT
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Whew, long article there LL. Found the Canadian guide page (@ bottom): http://www.acmg.ca/03public/guides/hireguide.asp
(& assuming the international guides have liability coverage as well)
"If you are taking a course or being guided by an ACMG member, you will be requested to complete a liability waiver. This is a requirement set out by our insurance underwriter as well as by the land managers we deal with."
So, I guess the deep pockets would be the insurance company and you can bet they have a host of "enforced" liability waiver cases they'll present in court. Granted, sucks all the way around (all involved). Hopefully it's not interesting in that the liability waiver is not overturned (if in the USA, who TF knows how it would go?, they like us skiing parallel to each other, within ropes, riding chairs, eating at the café...). As discussed in other sites/threads, I hope everyone knows their life insurance policy probably will not pay out when bc skiing (unless you take out a special policy). All about $$$ & keeping us lined up in 2 x 2 formation.
Take home for me on this (as usual in avie terrain) is to spread out, GTF out of the way at the bottom, one-at-a-time (sigh) --use terrain features? The safety in numbers ingrained into us mammals isn't so great when touring.
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02-21-2018, 07:16 PM #21
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02-21-2018, 07:24 PM #22
Thanks. Gave it a read. It's a brief summary. Looking for more in depth analysis.
http://old.avalanche.ca/cac/library/...-database/viewMaster of mediocrity.
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02-21-2018, 08:32 PM #23
No coroners report fyi. Heres the barebones AvCan report for interested parties
Here is the media contact if you want further info
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016JAG0007-000322
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02-21-2018, 08:53 PM #24
I agree. However the case of a professional hired specifically to manage risk is different than the risk you assume when managing your self.
Cases that don't speak to the negligence of an individual, but rather focus on the liability of an organization are not particularly relevant here. Organizational liability and the waiver has been well established.
The ski instructor that was found liable may be a more direct comparison here."Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto
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02-21-2018, 08:59 PM #25Registered User
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This could get interesting in our small community. I've heard about alot this incident as i know the deceased and some others. Curious is the case filed in bc or ab? Would that make a difference Lee?
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