will armed teachers destroy the us educational system

[Bobby Stainless]

its hardening the infrastructure of the school, the same vendors and products used to secure prisons implemented in schools alreadty

A locked door would've kept the Florida shooter from entering the school.

It did for the shooter in northern California who tried to enter a elementary school after killing 4 people. He left after 6 minutes of trying to get in.

It seems extremely fucking obvious.

[Mazderati]

I know you know what a straw man argument is.

Way to distract from the topic.

We are clearly talking about mass shootings according to the is-the-news-covering-it random tragedy, not the statistical definition that includes primarily gang related shootings and is only utilized in these debates when some anti-gunner wants to claim that mass shootings happen every day.

Or when you want to totally distract from the discussion at hand. Then you go on to imply some shit about CCW proponents implying "armed civilians" are the only deterrent when I explicitly listed police first and described voluntary CCW as A (not THE) detterent and a "backup. "Yet another strawman from you

You can be so logical in some threads, but not when you talk about guns. Here you are demonstrating no interest in a honest discussion. DD is being vastly more reasonable than you.

So STFU.

Bitch, please. You're on a roll of uninformed sensationalism and have gotten it wrong several times in the latest gun threads. Acknowledge you were wrong and move on.

[MultiVerse]

I know you know what a straw man argument is.

You can be so logical in some threads, but not when you talk about guns. Here you are demonstrating no interest in a honest discussion. DD is being vastly more reasonable than you..

You falsely claimed "That is why 90%+ of mass shootings occur in 'gun free zones.'" and "Those points are indisputable." I know what a straw man argument is, do you?

From the previous source: In reality, there are places where concealed weapons are permitted, places where police or security officers openly carry weapons, and places where concealed weapons are not permitted. Additionally, there are different ways to define mass shootings.

We found that advocates for more gun control [compared with people who advocate for less control] analyzed the data and reached different conclusions.

[summit]

You falsely claimed "That is why 90%+ of mass shootings occur in "gun free zones."" and "Those points are indisputable." I know what a straw man argument is, do you?

From the previous source: In reality, there are places where concealed weapons are permitted, places where police or security officers openly carry weapons, and places where concealed weapons are not permitted. Additionally, there are different ways to define mass shootings.

We found that advocates for more gun control analyzed the data and reached different conclusions.

90%+ of the mass shootings we are talking about... that I then discussed.

You see, you only want to use your FBI definition to attack that opener so you can distract from my other points.

But you don't want to talk about that definition when it comes to realizing that, statistically, school shootings and other sensational tragedies are a tiny minority of mass shooting deaths and not worthy of focus because gang shootings are the vast majority of mass shootings and gun violence in general. Acknowledging that would detract from the endpoints you are advocating for... "assault weapon" bans etc.

That makes you a hypocrite and a pedant.

I'm sick of otherwise smart people like you deciding that logical fallacies are fair game as long as they are ideologically attached to the endpoint of the fallacy.

[digitaldeath]

gun free zones is a myth

its just signage

i assume people that live in fear carry a gun everywhere all the time

half the country lives in fear

[MultiVerse]

As of November 2017, the FBI defines a mass shooting as an incident involving "four or more people shot at once."

90%+ of the mass shootings we are talking about... that I then discussed.

You see, you only want to use your FBI definition to attack that opener so you can distract from my other points.

I'm sick of otherwise smart people like you deciding that logical fallacies are fair game as long as they are ideologically attached to the endpoint of the fallacy.

Your numbers don't add up, regardless:

From the previous source: Klarevas examined 111 shootings since 1966 in which six or more people had been killed in each incident -- regardless of whether it occurred in a public or private location or if it was in the commission of another crime.

He found 13 took place in gun-free zones and five took place in gun-restricting zones. That means that the majority occurred in areas where there was no evidence that private guns were prohibited.

[Bobby Stainless]

Its pretty easy to differentiate between a shooting like Vegas, Texas and Florida and a "mass shooting" like this.

Which likely has to do with the drug trade.

[jackstraw]

It's less about shooting back and more about putting a little bit of respectful fear into the students. It would be a lot less tempting to bring a gun to school if you knew your teachers had a gun sitting in a finger print access drawer or around their waist. One police officer in a school of 1000 or more people isn't doing much.

I recognize that arming teachers sounds like it could turn into a military state where teachers force conformity out of fear and intimidation, but that seems like a bit of a slippery slope argument. Good teachers are passionate about their jobs and about learning, and having a gun by their side wouldn't change that. It would only allow to be more confident about the safety of their students

No, you're wrong jong. How many mass murders give a flying fuck if they get shot? They typically blow their brains out anyway.

Teachers are not cops for christ sakes.

[Bobby Stainless]

Teachers are not cops for christ sakes.

And if you aren't a cop, then you will probably shoot yourself. Right?

Basically only 3% of the US population can proficiently use a firearm, correct?

[digitaldeath]

slippery slope arguments are persuasive

[PassTheDutchie]

Allowing teachers to CCW if they want to and qualify doesn't sacrifice education while providing a deterrent and a *backup* piece of security.

Cruz is an anomaly. Most mass shooters want to go down in a hail of bullets--their's or others, it matters not. I fail to see how an armed teacher acts as a deterrent to someone who wants to die. On a more practical level, the most likely result of a handgun carrying teacher vs. a AR-15 carrying, suicidal madman is a dead handgun carrying teacher. It's a sad and pathetic that some are even considering this as an option.

[jackstraw]

A locked door would've kept the Florida shooter from entering the school.

Wrong

[Bobby Stainless]

Wrong

How do you figure? How would he have entered the school, if it was locked.

You can't just say "wrong".

It's a sad and pathetic that some are even considering this as an option.

It would make more sense to set up a volunteer program with LEO and active Military.

[digitaldeath]

Cruz is an anomaly. Most mass shooters want to go down in a hail of bullets--their's or others, it matters not. I fail to see how an armed teacher acts as a deterrent to someone who wants to die. On a more practical level, the most likely result of a handgun carrying teacher vs. a AR-15 carrying, suicidal madman is a dead handgun carrying teacher. It's a sad and pathetic that some are even considering this as an option.

this is the organic growth of the police state / when security is the priority nothing is sad and pathetic

fear motivates

not to mention it seems the USG is in full control of the chekists

[jackstraw]

And if you aren't a cop, then you will probably shoot yourself. Right?

Basically only 3% of the US population can proficiently use a firearm, correct?

You would get blown away if someone competent was shooting back at you. You are a used car salesman. But then again, I'm sure you're a badass navy seal or the ninja equivalent.

[jackstraw]

How do you figure? How would he have entered the school, if it was locked.

You can't just say "wrong".




It would make more sense to set up a volunteer program with LEO and active Military.

I've entered schools multiple times when they've been locked...because you know people walk out and hold the door open...which they shouldn't, but it happens. A well thought out plan by a psycho should not be underestimated.

[Timberridge]

Those are some kick ass used cars though.

[TAFKALVS]

I'm still in hs

So what are you doing in the padded room, kid?

Make money. Buy toys.

At least us homeschoolers have the commonsense to not use a stupid tagline on every single TGR post we make. Since you're a highschooler, I presume you've made any real money and toys probably = a pokemon themed ninetendo, right?

[summit]

Cruz is an anomaly. Most mass shooters want to go down in a hail of bullets--their's or others, it matters not. I fail to see how an armed teacher acts as a deterrent to someone who wants to die. On a more practical level, the most likely result of a handgun carrying teacher vs. a AR-15 carrying, suicidal madman is a dead handgun carrying teacher. It's a sad and pathetic that some are even considering this as an option.

My reading indicates that most of these indiscriminate mass shooters suicide at the first armed resistance and it doesn't matter whether it is determined or effective. Or nobody confronts them, they run out of bullets or targets or just on a whim kill themselves. Thus giving resistance earlier is probably beneficial.

The Vegas shooter is a good example. He had a huge arsenal outgunning the security guard with a pistol who shot through the wall at him. Security guy was shot in the leg. Vegas shooter was unhurt, but suicided in response to inferior resistance.

[Bobby Stainless]

You would get blown away if someone competent was shooting back at you. You are a used car salesman. But then again, I'm sure you're a badass navy seal or the ninja equivalent.

I used to build race guns and shoot competitively.

Assuming someone can't use a weapon is pretty fucking dangerous.

People like you, who have no clue, will continue to think a gun is some sort of complicated tool that only police can use.

Just sit and wait for gun legislation. That's the same as doing nothing btw.

Those are some kick ass used cars though.

Put 10 over the curb this week. All while spinnin my pistol on mah finger.

[digitaldeath]

I used to build race guns and shoot competitively.

Assuming someone can't use a weapon is pretty fucking dangerous.

People like you, who have no clue, will continue to think a gun is some sort of complicated tool that only police can use.



Put 10 over the curb this week. All while spinnin my pistol on mah finger.

u gotta work on ur hubris

[Bobby Stainless]

u gotta work on ur hubris

Nah. I'm pretty fucking awesome.

[digitaldeath]

Young men and the rich are hubristic because they think they are better than other people.

[Timberridge]

Put 10 over the curb this week. All while spinnin my pistol on mah finger.

Bullet in, safety off?

DD, why you so jealous of BS? Go out and grab Minneapolis by the balls and squeeze them hard until the city's juices flow out all over your hands like Bobby has in the Music City.

[Bobby Stainless]

Bullet in, safety off?

Of course. Im not a bitch.

Young men and the rich are hubristic because they think they are better than other people.

Yeah. Well Im not a young man. Guess Im just rich.

Be confident.