Blindsided by AT boot marketing BS

[SUPERIOR]

I've been skiing on some form of AT boots for the past three years, and something has felt "missing" or different. Couldn't really put my finger on it.

Most days I'm on size 28 Dynafit Titans. Other boots I've owned and skied include the Cochise Pro Lite and recently the Dynafit Vulcan. Don't get me wrong, they've been amazing in the BC.

Today, I clicked into some Dalbello Kryptons and took some 190cm Katanas out to play at Jackson Hole Resort. All I can say, is holy fuck. It's amazing what stiff, heavy gear will get you in the stability department. Destroy a mogul? OK. Jump off something and land with mega authority? Sweet. Holding an edge on hard snow is waaay easier too.

So, the question is: have you ever been blindsided by all this marketing BS talking about one boot quivers and "light is right" terminology?

Do you feel like AT boots are great for inbounds riding?

What boots have you loved / not loved?

Maybe it's just this bony season that's gotten me all grumpy about boots. Who knows.

[Eluder]

After not skiing my alpine boots all season, all while telling myself how awesome my beefy touring boots were skiing, I hopped back on my alpine boots and was blown away how much better they skied. Versatility comes at a cost no matter what they tell you.

[grinch]

I’ve been skiing in my lupo carbon ti’s the last 2 years. They actually do ski like an alpine boot. Picked up a pair of vulcans(ended up being similar price as putting new liners in my tlt6’s). The vulcans have been rated as 130(same as the lupo carbon ti). I do prefer the vulcans for touring but they’re definitely not as stiff or progressive as the lupo. I do appreciate both for what they do though. If there isn’t one boot to cover both those yet, we’re certainly damn close. I wouldn’t bet against next year having it. Maybe the hawx xtd does ?

[XavierD]

Nope. Nothing skis as good as a well fit, heavy, pinned alpine boots. Nothing with a walk mode skis as well as a Lange RS/RX, Head Raptor, KR2, Tecnica Mach1, etc. even the lighter weight pinned alpine boots (K2 Recon 130, Atomic Ultra) don’t in my mind ski as well as the high end 2200g boots.

Can you ski them aggressively in the resort? Yes. Are they as good? Nope.

[babybear]

I was wondering how long it was going to take you to come to this conclusion
You were a good skier prior and now you are going to fucking kill it
obviously the AT gear will still get used but for inbounds/@resort charging it's going to be night and day

[Vitamin I]

...It's amazing what stiff, heavy gear will get you in the stability department...

So, the question is: have you ever been blindsided by all this marketing BS talking about one boot quivers and "light is right" terminology?...

I try to encourage people to do as much A/B Testing as possible, and then BELIEVE IN THE PERFORMANCE YOU FEEL. Strangely, after that, some people will still doubt their own test results and instead choose to believe a different source. What? I don't get it. TRUST YOURSELF!

For downhill boots, I loved the old red Salomon Course 130 (a.k.a. Course Axe 9.0, Course X-Scream, etc.). Since then, I have been open-minded to try some of the newer Salomon boots as they get released each year. Every time, the old Course 130 beats the newer releases in my A/B Tests (according to my personal preferences for performance), so I just confidently reject the new losers and stick with the old boots, which are not hard to find and hoard at low prices. This thread triggered me to weigh them for my first time, and they are 2434g per boot (size 27.0). Love them.

.

[kootenayskier]

Most AT set-ups can’t provide even close to the inbounds performance of even a mid level Alpine boot, let alone a race boot, but for how and where many skiers play, that doesn’t matter. There’s so much variety in skiing, skiers, and ski gear, all that matters is finding something that works for you. I’ve always maintained separate and very distinct inbounds and touring setups, but as I’m aging and mellowing, and my preference for untracked powder gets higher, and with the gear getting ever more versatile, I can see a “do it all” setup on the horizon.

[LeeLau]

Its getting to be a habit for me to agree with Xavier and Kootenayskier but yah all touring gear and boots in particular about compromises. Like Grinch my Dalbello 130C are the closest so far. But I'll still feel like old clapped Atomic alpine boots with plugs removed and buckles loose feel better than Dalbello with everything done tight

[skifishbum]

im a ive never stood atop a technical line or couliar and said boy i wish i had better tools or a bigger crutch
i ski it all in the same boots
binders and skis i change a bit
but my boots are always my given
works good enough for me

[Mudfoot]

A one boot or ski setup makes you comfortable in any situation because you know exactly what you are going to get from them on each turn, but from my experience light (whether boots or skis) is always a sacrifice in stability and dampness. We all just draw our own line on acceptability. As a fairly big guy I find light boots and skis to be more work because they are not doing as much of the job as heavier gear. I don't mind light AT boots for skiing the bc because I am more focused during the limited time of the downhill experience, but at the resort they get tedious pretty quickly.

Based on my experience, if you find an AT boot that actually works well at the area it is way too heavy for AT climbing. They are definitely getting closer, but they ain't there yet.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Yeah, alpine boots have major advantages, but when I started spending most of my time touring in lighter boots, alpine boots began to feel clunky, like anchors on my feet. I've taken to using my older Maestrale RS's as resort boots, not because I think the performance is on par with alpine boots, but because they feel more like I expect a boot to feel. And my skiing style has changed to work with lighter gear. And carrying a 3 year old and his skis AND my skis is easier with a decent walk mode.

I'd bet that when my boy is a little older and I start spending more time riding lifts, I'll go back to Alpine boots, probably a lighter 3 piece shell if I can find something that works.

[nyskirat]

It's the same with everything in skiing that tries to be the "quiver-of-one", whether it is jackets, boots, skis, etc. it is going to fall short when compared to any piece dedicated to one aspect of that quiver.

FIS race skis>detuned (consumer) race skis>carvers>all mountain mid fats>fat skis for carving.

race boots> all mountain performance boots>alpine boots w/ walk modes> crossover boots> pure touring boots for performance skiing

and vice versa for powder skis and touring boots.

I've come to the decision that I'd rather travel with 2x pair of boots than 1 and be griping about how I wish they were lighter, more progressive, etc.

but not everyone can make that kind of decision for whatever reason.

Maybe one day we'll get close, but I don't think you'll ever find a pure crossover that performs like an alpine.

[rod9301]

I find that my bc boots, Lange freetours, let me down in moguls. I'm always half a turn behind.

And possibly on my very first turn on ice, then I adapt.

I don't buy the one boot quiver either.

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[rod9301]

Same thing though with at bindings.

I don't get the quiver of one. The kingpin, shift, etc are really not better in the bc than a G3 ion for example.

Most of the time I encounter bad or almost bad snow, so it's really hard to tell the difference between bindings.

And if the snow is good, any would feel silky.

And on ice, where you might feel the difference, I'm normally focused so much on not falling above the cliff below me, that I can't feel anything anyway.

The only thing I demand of a bc binding is not to prerelease.

And ease of use, though this is a distant second.

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[auvgeek]

Anyone who hangs around Tech Talk shouldn't be duped or blindsided by this marketing nonsense. Many Tech Talk regulars have been saying this for years now. No light boots, skis, or bindings ski like their heavier, alpine focused brethren. But that's okay -- some people will take the hit in top end stability and dampness for more playfulness and easier bootpacking, even for inbounds, while others want plug boots and unrockered metal skis, despite their drawbacks. You just have to realize it's all a compromise, and find the thing that works best for you.

I don't get the quiver of one. The kingpin, shift, etc are really not better in the bc than a G3 ion for example.

1. some people like to drop stuff and ski in the bc like they do inbounds. Safety of release is definitely on my mind when I'm deciding to hit an air in a remote area, as well as pre-release and durability issues.

2. I can see the advantage of a single travel setup that involves lift-served and moderate touring (<5k vf). Lange Freetour 140 + SHIFT on something like a Faction CT4.0 could be great for this, depending on the terrain you want to ski.

[digitaldeath]

Who the fuck uses walk mode. Jesus Christ

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[rod9301]

Anyone who hangs around Tech Talk shouldn't be duped or blindsided by this marketing nonsense. Many Tech Talk regulars have been saying this for years now. No light boots, skis, or bindings ski like their heavier, alpine focused brethren. But that's okay -- some people will take the hit in top end stability and dampness for more playfulness and easier bootpacking, even for inbounds, while others want plug boots and unrockered metal skis, despite their drawbacks. You just have to realize it's all a compromise, and find the thing that works best for you.

1. some people like to drop stuff and ski in the bc like they do inbounds. Safety of release is definitely on my mind when I'm deciding to drop a cliff in a remote area, as well as pre-release and durability issues.

2. it would be nice to have one a OSQ for traveling that involves inbounds and light touring. Lange Freetour + SHIFT on something like a Faction CT4.0 would be great for this.

That's fair.
I don't air, my favorite is steep couloirs.

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[Meadow Skipper]

Who the fuck uses walk mode. Jesus Christ

People that tour and people that work in their boots. You know, real skiers.

Now be quiet, drew - the grown-ups are talking.

[cmcrawfo]

quiver of one is an unattainable dream.... be it bikes, boots, or binders. Sure, you can fix most things with a hammer, and an adjustable wrench... but there is no replacement for having the right tool for the job.


... do they really market AT boots as "as stiff and hard charging as alpine boots" ? ... are modern touring boots getting stiffer? sure they are. But you would have to be drunk to imagine that they could ski as well as a true alpine boot.

I would love a dedicated alpine boot. But boots can run upwards of a thousand pesos a pop, so I am totally content with a pair of ZeroG's for now.

[digitaldeath]

People that tour and people that work in their boots. You know, real skiers.

Now be quiet, drew - the grown-ups are talking.

Lol

Real skiers use walk mode !!!

Hooooowhoooo that is rich

[nyskirat]

Who the fuck uses walk mode. Jesus Christ

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Gotta get to the parking lot somehow, am I right?


But seriously, it's so nice for any sort of long tour.

Not a necessity, but a luxury that is 100% worth it.

[cmcrawfo]

Who the fuck uses walk mode. Jesus Christ

But seriously, it's so nice for any sort of long tour.

Not a necessity, but a luxury that is 100% worth it.

I would hardly classify walk mode as a luxury for a long tour .... it is very much a necessity....that is, unless your long tours don't involve skins and touring bindings. Then I would question your definition of "long"

[abraham]

Who the fuck uses walk mode. Jesus Christ

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mountaineers. Walk mode switches are a technical mountaineering move

[Jong Lafitte]

Lol

Real skiers use walk mode !!!

Hooooowhoooo that is rich

Easier to drive the getaway car with a walk mode. Security is changing into their street boots so they can drive their black gov't issued sedans and you're already flying down the road in the AWD 6speed diesel wagon, or maybe taking off in a gyrocopter.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

mountaineers. Walk mode switches are a technical mountaineering move

Word.

I was ski mountaineering the shit out of shit this morning. Even in the lot.