Snowboarder forever silences skiers winning Super-G Gold

[goldengatestinx]

You mean the one who won the Super G discipline title last year? The one who has finished top ten in the overall, Super G, and Downhill for the past 4 seasons and will most likely do so this season?

Liechtenstein has had a serious ski program forever. Since the days of bamboo. Back in the days when Wide World of Sports on broadcast TV showed good sports.

[Benny Profane]

Liechtenstein has had a serious ski program forever. Since the days of bamboo. Back in the days when Wide World of Sports on broadcast TV showed good sports.

Something tells me you got a rise every time you saw that poor guy crash off the ski jump.

[m2711c]

Oh come on dude, this doesn’t get ya going?







“Jim McKay: Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sports... the thrill of victory... and the agony of defeat... the human drama of athletic competition... This is "ABC's Wide World of Sports!"





classic

[skideeppow]

Yeah, it's hard to take Women's Ski Racing Super-G seriously when the "competitors" just let a snowboarder show up, borrow a pair of skis, then win gold---who then calls all of them out for not competing hard enough to take a risk. ...And also when the "competitors" let the bronze medal go to a nation of population only 37,000 (Liechtenstein).

.

you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
1. She didn't borrow skis. She is an atomic athlete, and her tech got some last years skis from the factory that may or may not have been shifferns quiver.
2. She is an amazing athlete, look at her run. She skied well. She had no pressure.
3. Something no one is talking about is the tail wind she had, which made a large difference.
4. Lichtenstein produces some amazing skiers. Paul Frommet, Hanni Wenzel, Petra Wenzel etc

I raced at the only mountain in Lichtenstein and got my ass kicked by a shit ton of guys from there.

[mcski]

Oh come on dude, this doesn’t get ya going?







“Jim McKay: Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sports... the thrill of victory... and the agony of defeat... the human drama of athletic competition... This is "ABC's Wide World of Sports!"





classic

So many awesome afternoons spent w that intro. Fuck it's got Klammer in it as well. If you talk shit about that intro, you probably don't even know how to wipe your ass properly. I think vitamini tried
Wiping his ass w his head and it got stuck up there.

[goldengatestinx]

Oh come on dude, this doesn’t get ya going?







“Jim McKay: Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sports... the thrill of victory... and the agony of defeat... the human drama of athletic competition... This is "ABC's Wide World of Sports!"





classic

Can hear every note of that music in my head as well. We'd watch most weekends after getting home from skiing. With moms home made pizza for dinner.

Klammer racing around bamboo. None of this pussified hinged gate crap.

[snoqpass]

Can hear every note of that music in my head as well. We'd watch most weekends after getting home from skiing. With moms home made pizza for dinner.

Klammer racing around bamboo. None of this pussified hinged gate crap.

Straddling gates back then had little higher penalty

[Vitamin I]

How many competitors were in the womens SG, and in the mens GS?

Women's Super-G
1 DNF out of 44 starts

Men's Giant Slalom
30 DNF's out of 105 starts
(Yes, these DNF's include Thailand, Cypress, etc.)

BTW,
Men's Super-G
13 DNF's out of 61 starts
(These DNF's include Ligety, Peter Fill (finished Top 6-12 in 3 other events), Caviezel (finished Top 20 in 4 other events), etc.)

source: https://olympics.cbc.ca

.

[willywhit]

Hoping she brings more interest over to alpine snowboard racing

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/s...wboarding.html

[nyskirat]

Women's Super-G
1 DNF out of 44 starts

Men's Giant Slalom
30 DNF's out of 105 starts
(Yes, these DNF's include Thailand, Cypress, etc.)

BTW,
Men's Super-G
13 DNF's out of 61 starts
(These DNF's include Ligety, Peter Fill (finished Top 6-12 in 3 other events), Caviezel (finished Top 20 in 4 other events), etc.)

source: https://olympics.cbc.ca

.

And what's that relative to the average DNF rate on the WC circuit? Similar? Higher? Lower?

Arguing that she won because the others didn't "try" hard enough is asinine.

As is comparing the DFB to the DSV.

1. Soccer is Germany's most popular sport.
2. Soccer is cheaper than skiing and therefore more accessible.
3. The financial incentives behind a strong soccer program are infinitely greater than a strong ski program.

As I said before, according to Goggia, Ledecka has the ability to throw down really fast segments as shown by her ability to lead certain ones during training.

Her problem has, and will continue to be, consistency.

World Cup ski racing has been, and always will be, won by those who make the fewest mistakes while taking the greatest risks. Sometimes it is faster to be clean and ski a safer line, while other times, like we've seen with Bode,it is faster to push the limits.

No one on this board can fairly critique the line choice of those athletes given that we know so little about what their plans were for that race.

[k2skier112]

The percentages of Alpine Skiing race starters who got DNF for missing a gate so far in this Olympics:

37% Men's Alpine Combined
31% Women's Slalom
29% Men's Giant Slalom
23% Women's Giant Slalom
21% Men's Super-G
2% Women's Super-G *** Wow, that's very different from the others! ***

Hey guys, what's your theory for the BIG difference in the DNF rate of Women's Super-G compared to the other events listed above?

Ledecka's theory seems to be "All the other girls didn't risk a lot. There must be a lot of pressure on them." My theory is they didn't compete hard near their personal limits. What's your theory?
.
.
.
note: Men's Downhill not listed above, because it's a different animal for risk in that its low 4% DNF rate is after 3 days of 3 training runs.

Womens GS had 67 entries, 58 complete runs. Show your math on how you got 23% DNF or DSQ.

[Vitamin I]

Womens GS had 67 entries, 58 complete runs. Show your math on how you got 23% DNF or DSQ.

Your math is off.

I am happy to show you my math by request, but I doubt you'll request it after I'm telling you right here that your mistake is your math included only Run2, and you excluded Run1 of Women's GS.

.

[Mofro261]

I am happy to show you the math by request, but I doubt you'll request it after I'm telling you right here that your mistake is your math included only Run2, and you excluded Run1 of Women's GS.
.

oh, and for direct comparison how many runs is the SG? But DNF rates as a metric for trying hard misses the boat completely- DNFs happen because of mental errors and tactical errors that may or may not have anything to do with intensity.

If you listened to Bode, he explained it fairly well for both the DH and SG courses. The Olympic hill isn't a very challenging one, certainly not compared to most WC speed events. Because of this, it is much easier to go fast but actually harder to win and get separation from the rest of the of the field for the truly elite athletes, more of the reason why the top 4 in SG were separated by only 0.11 hundredths.

[k2skier112]

Your math is way off.

I am happy to show you the math by request, but I doubt you'll request it after I'm telling you right here that your mistake is your math included only Run2, and you excluded Run1 of Women's GS.

.

Hey dipshit, try some reading comprehension. You said there was a 23% DSQ DNF rate in Ladies GS

Show how you got those stats or shut the fuck up, moron.

add-run 1, 79 racers made run 1, 2 were DNS, 12 DSQ, DNF

79 and 12 are your numbers, show your math how you get to 23%

[k2skier112]

Women's Super-G
1 DNF out of 44 starts

Men's Giant Slalom
30 DNF's out of 105 starts
(Yes, these DNF's include Thailand, Cypress, etc.)

BTW,
Men's Super-G
13 DNF's out of 61 starts
(These DNF's include Ligety, Peter Fill (finished Top 6-12 in 3 other events), Caviezel (finished Top 20 in 4 other events), etc.)

source: https://olympics.cbc.ca

.

Wrong, there were 110 entrants, 1 DNS, 109 made run 1.

Womens GS; 67 made run 1, 58 made run 2=total 125.
run 1 DNF DSQ 12, run 2, 9 DNF DSQ=21 total

17% DNF DSQ for both runs, not 23%

[gramboh]

Yes, that's what I mean. I believe a competitor like, say for example, the Federal Republic of Germany has the resources to establish a longterm national program that could be much, much stronger than national programs of some other competitors like, say the Principality of Liechtenstein. But instead, they don't care enough to try harder. Germany is a good example here, because they did indeed care enough to try hard in International Soccer when they decided to overhaul their whole soccer program from youth development all the way up to their professional leagues, and pretty much everyone agrees that their new longterm efforts achieved effective results in soccer against their international competitors. Germany tried harder with their longterm national program for soccer, then they had more success, duh. I'm not seeing that high standard of competition among the nations competing for Olympic Women's Super-G.

.

Germany is in a rebuilding phase on the women's side. They have a decent history in the sport, Riesch, Seizinger, Rebensburg etc. as well as on the men's side. Not sure your point here.

[Vitamin I]

...[It's asinine] comparing the DFB to the DSV.

1. Soccer is Germany's most popular sport.
2. Soccer is cheaper than skiing and therefore more accessible.
3. The financial incentives behind a strong soccer program are infinitely greater than a strong ski program.

Your point there is aligned with my stance that "It's hard to take Women's Super-G seriously". You're saying the 2 don't compare. Correct. One achieves a much higher standard of competition than the other, for the reasons you wrote...but the reasons don't matter. Same as saying NBA doesn't compare to US Soccer---correct, and so, for many people it's hard to take US Soccer seriously.

...No one on this board can fairly critique the line choice of those athletes given that we know so little about what their plans were for that race.

You're probably right. Also, it's likely a pretty valid theory that this whole thing is complex enough, and with enough unknowns, that no one can really know anything about a race except that shorter times are better than longer times. But if it's invalid for me to believe the pack underperformed, and if the media and fans dismiss Ledecka's own opinion basically that the pack should have beat her time, then it's equally invalid for the positive race fans and mainstream media to believe that the winner performed great. The OP posted this thread as a "winner performed great" thread, and my opinion is different, and Ledecka said her own opinion is different. I guess there can be no proof either way.

And what's that relative to the average DNF rate on the WC circuit? Similar? Higher? Lower?

This thread is about Olympics---not World Cup. They are not the same (at least not after 1970), and I'm too lazy to do all the World Cup research. Anyway, since you asked, I did math for more Olympic Men's & Women's Super-G for Sochi 2014, Vancouver 2010, Torino 2006, SLC 2002, then got tired and quit. Of those 8 events, there was one other instance of very low DNF rate similar to this years 2% for Women's Super-G.

Torino 2006
Women's Super-G
4%, 2 DNF's out of 53 starters.

So this year's low DNF rate was not the first time. 2006 was so long ago, I can't remember if the athletes' efforts looked lazy to me for that race, too.

.

[Vitamin I]

Show how you got those stats or shut the fuck up, moron.

OK, I wrote:

The percentages of Alpine Skiing race starters who got DNF for missing a gate so far in this Olympics:
...
23% Women's Giant Slalom
...

The math is:
ValidFinishingTimesForRun1 = 67
DNFsForRun1 = 11
DNFsForRun2 = 7

RaceStarters = ValidFinishingTimesForRun1 + DNFsForRun1 = 67 + 11 = 78

DNFsForRaceStarters = DNFsForRun1 + DNFsForRun2 = 11 + 7 = 18

PercentageOfRaceStartersWhoGotDNFs = 100% * DNFsForRaceStarters / RaceStarters = 100% * 18 / 78 = 23%

Done.

(data source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine...s_giant_slalom )

.

[Vitamin I]

you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
1. She didn't borrow skis.

You're way behind. The OP posted fake news in Post #1, then the next 45 posts or so referenced that, and then it was debunked as fake news. Read the thread.

3. Something no one is talking about is the tail wind she had, which made a large difference.

You're right that I have absolutely no clue about the wind data for every athlete during that event. If a headwind is what made everyone else look slow and safe to me, then that would explain it.

4. Lichtenstein produces some amazing skiers. Paul Frommet, Hanni Wenzel, Petra Wenzel etc

I know they're amazing. But if the standard of competition were higher worldwide, then maybe Liechtenstein's amazing skiers wouldn't make the podium or be as highly regarded. In ski racing, it's all relative to your competitors. Ski racing is not about absolute race times or being amazing absolutely.

.

[k2skier112]

OK, I wrote:


The math is:
ValidFinishingTimesForRun1 = 67
DNFsForRun1 = 11
DNFsForRun2 = 7

RaceStarters = ValidFinishingTimesForRun1 + DNFsForRun1 = 67 + 11 = 78

DNFsForRaceStarters = DNFsForRun1 + DNFsForRun2 = 11 + 7 = 18

PercentageOfRaceStartersWhoGotDNFs = 100% * DNFsForRaceStarters / RaceStarters = 100% * 18 / 78 = 23%

Done.

(data source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine...s_giant_slalom )

.

You don't know how to do math/ statistics...mmm ok

[Vitamin I]

...DNFs happen because of mental errors and tactical errors that may or may not have anything to do with intensity...

Thanks, man. I asked for theories, and you offered one.

I think maybe DNF rates change when pretty much ANY ONE of a very wide variety of other variables is changed. In Men's Super-G, only 2-3 people DNF'd on Ligety's blown gate, which was slightly convex, but definitely NOT blind. They could have had line-of-sight on 2 gates ahead, but maybe lost focus and thought peripheral vision would be enough, and then blew it without pushing so hard. But there was one blind jump where a TON of people DNF'd by pushing hard while blind. After 2 people DNF'd there, it looked like more people kept trusting the tracks of the previous DNF, and people kept following those tracks into doom.

.

[Vitamin I]

You don't know how to do math/ statistics...mmm ok

I think your method differs from mine in these ways:
1) I think you count DSQ's. I don't, and I was clear that I was counting only DNF's. The reason I didn't count DSQ's is because I didn't want to research every case to see if the DSQ was for equipment violations, or disallowed advertising on your suit, or whatever.
2) I think you are reporting DNF/DSQ rate for multiple runs within a race event, like you count Shiffrin as 2 starts for 2 runs, and 2 finishes for 2 runs. I reported DNF rate for a race event, like Shiffrin started 1 multi-run event, and she finished 1 multi-run event.

.

[counterfeitfake]

All of you STFU, you've been forever silenced.

[nyskirat]

Your point there is aligned with my stance that "It's hard to take Women's Super-G seriously". You're saying the 2 don't compare. Correct. One achieves a much higher standard of competition than the other, for the reasons you wrote...but the reasons don't matter. Same as saying NBA doesn't compare to US Soccer---correct, and so, for many people it's hard to take US Soccer seriously.

Here's a statistic for you on WC Super-G winners:

You have had 6 different SG winners this year on the WC. There have been 6 SGs.

Does that sound like a problem regarding lack of competition?

Do you recognize the names Brignone? Or Flury?

How often do they pop up on podiums? How about Schmidhofer, Hutter, or Schnarf? I'd ask about Mowinckel but she has won two medals this Olympics. Prior to this, she had just TWO podiums in her entire career. One was in SG.

Does this mean there is a weak field in SG? or does it mean there is parity? I'd argue the latter given that the previous seasons the results were dominated by bigger names like Gut, Stuhec, and Vonn. No longer are they the dominant force on the tour, thanks to injuries+age.

I don't know if you've ever raced (I'm guessing you haven't) but as I've said time in and time out (and you conveniently ignore) is that every racer on the WC who is in the Olympics has the talent to win the race. The question is about consistency.

This time Ledecka had the consistency to win the entire race.

You're probably right. Also, it's likely a pretty valid theory that this whole thing is complex enough, and with enough unknowns, that no one can really know anything about a race except that shorter times are better than longer times. But if it's invalid for me to believe the pack underperformed, and if the media and fans dismiss Ledecka's own opinion basically that the pack should have beat her time, then it's equally invalid for the positive race fans and mainstream media to believe that the winner performed great. The OP posted this thread as a "winner performed great" thread, and my opinion is different, and Ledecka said her own opinion is different. I guess there can be no proof either way.

She won a fucking Olympic medal. That requires a great performance no matter who you are.

[willywhit]

Go Ester !!!