Best mountaineering ski?

[Angle Parking]

I won't be sarcastic as I was in my first post. For me, ski weight has never been the thing. Ski performance has. I hike up so I can have a blast on the down. A bit heavier ski deflects less in variable snow, and fits me and my style better. I'm not out there to be the fastest guy up. I'm out there to have the most fun on the way down.

This. I wouldn’t go as far as saying weight plays no part in my selection process, but I agree that downhill performance is vastly more important. The ski industry can fill the ether with all the marketing b.s.they want about their fancy materials, but there is invariably a point of diminishing returns when it comes to ski weight. As in the more we diminish the weight if the ski, the poorer the downhill performance. I’ve always felt the magic nimber wad in the 1700 gram per ski area. Below that and you better be skiing derp, untracked pow or your going to be getting tossed around.

Yeah, and there’s a fine line between « my technique can overcome the limitations of a light ski » and skiing like an old lady. Just sayin’



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[AweShuksan]

The ski industry can fill the ether with all the marketing b.s.they want about their fancy materials, but there is invariably a point of diminishing returns when it comes to ski weight. As in the more we diminish the weight if the ski, the poorer the downhill performance. I’ve always felt the magic nimber wad in the 1700 gram per ski area. Below that and you better be skiing derp, untracked pow or your going to be getting tossed around.

Yeah, and there’s a fine line between « my technique can overcome the limitations of a light ski » and skiing like an old lady. Just sayin’

Can I add the 500-700 grams of snow each of my skis is usually carrying around in the form of Cascade powder stuck to the top sheets?

'Cause then my Zero G95's will weigh 1850-2050 grams each and be above your magic number. That way I won't be forced to ski like an old lady? I never knew lightweight skis caused me to ski like an old lady. Remind me to grab my heavy skis before I show off.

[rod9301]

if I’m actually mountaineering I probably don’t mind skiing like an old lady. I’m not airing out the ice bulges in the chevy or anything. that’s just me though I’m not that rad

True, but still most of the time I ski wind affected snow, breakable crust, slop, etc.
Rarely good snow.
In which case I want a ski that I'm confident it will have all conditions, including ice.

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[trogdortheburninator]

I dont think the fact that somebody skied something incredible on bad gear should be an excuse to not care about gear. I'd like to think the newer/better gear lets us do new things / different things.

IMO a pound on the foot makes a huge difference over a long day - if you dont think it matters, it probably means you arent pushing the mileage/elevation/pace close to your limits - which is fine. I tend to stress over 50-100 grams in my setup - a pound is not even on the table. Furthermore, 10 mm of extra skin width adds a ton of drag over the course of a long day. I have no problem skiing a well-designed, lightweight 85 mm ski (zerog 85). I find that the zerog 85 skis extremely well in all conditions, regardless of its weight. Edge hold is amazing, it skis well in powder. It sucks in breakable crust, but so do I. For me to consider something a mountaineering ski in my quiver, it would need to be 75 mm to 95 mm waist, under 1.25 kg, 175 cm to 180 cm long. If it meets those criteria, then I start to look at shape. Fairly traditional, with maybe a bit of rocker for versatility. At these weights, I want brands that know what they are doing, not just throwing performance out the door. I think that is doable in this day and age.

I think a big thing people need to realize is that switching to lighter-weight gear that is purpose-built for ski mountaineering will bring a learning curve with it. Some folks can adapt fairly fast (20-30 days?), but for other folks it will take much longer. Expecting to jump from a 4.5 kg fun-shape charging setup to a 2 kg mountaineering setup will require adjustment. It doesnt mean the latter is shitty, just that it needs to be learned/relearned.

That's my opinion, although I'm still not sure what the definition of ski mountaineering is, or that I've ever done it.

[North]

My $.02

- Breakable crust sucks on any ski. Don't buy a ski with the intent of skiing breakable crust. If you find yourself encountering breakable crust often, maybe work on your assessment of weather/snow conditions.

- Start with something close to what you enjoy skiing now. Already on pixie sticks and rattling out your fillings skiing tech bindings at the resort? Great, go super light. Skiing on burlier stuff? OK, grab something closer to the 1600-1800g spectrum

- If I'm looking to trim weight, the order is bindings -> Skis > boots. IMO a race weight tech binding paired with heavier boots/skis gives all the benefits of a more stout setup, while still trimming weight.

FWIW I ski a MTN Explore 95, F1s, and have my eye on Ski Trab Gara Titans to replace the Speed Rad's that are on them now.

[trogdortheburninator]

My $.02

- Breakable crust sucks on any ski. Don't buy a ski with the intent of skiing breakable crust. If you find yourself encountering breakable crust often, maybe work on your assessment of weather/snow conditions.
.

Fact.

The other thing to keep in mind is just how good light gear is now. Talking about compromising on binding-> ski -> boot, the truth is with something like a plum race, zerog 95, alien RS, you are cutting like 1-1.5 kg per foot with no compromise in performance versus a decade ago.

[Lee Murian]

I had the same question and went with the zeroG. It was a toss up between that and the volkl bmt. I generally dislike light skis as my go-to So. Cascade quiver but I was getting tired of touring my bonafides. After demoing a bunch, those two ski pretty decent for light skis.

[rod9301]

Still, I watched the altitoy ski MOUNTAINEERING race in France, 10,000 + skiers and only the top free looked like they were in control on the downhill.

And also watch all sorts of randonee skiers on light gear, all fast uphill, but really struggling on the down.

I agree that you can get tired on the uphill with heavier gear, but the same thing can happen on the down with light gear.

I ski with 184 carbon katanas, G3 ions and Lange 130 freetours and I can do 5,000 plus plus days and still not tired on the down.

But, I take my time uphill, never out of breath, and I think this counts for more than pushing it on light gear, going fast, but ending up tired because of higher heart rate.

Anyway, I know I'm not convincing anyone, but I like skiing, and I don't mind breakable crust, which is more than manageable with my setup.
My theory is buy the ski for the worst conditions, because almost anything works in good conditions.

There.

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[AweShuksan]

Anyway, I know I'm not convincing anyone, but I like skiing, and I don't mind breakable crust, which is more than manageable with my setup.

I suspect you don't have experience in the full range of various breakable crusts.

Because breakable crusts form, from time to time, that NO ONE would ever say they don't mind. Ever. I don't care how core you are.

[Canada1]

It’s interesting to see perspectives. For me, mountaineering implies that I will be spending time in no fall zones. I get more scarred of falling due to a deflection or crap edge hold than I am of being tired and slow at the end of the day. I’ve never been scared because of the weight of my pack, but I can remember saying to myself “I chose the wrong ski today” a number of times. I guess it’s like bikes. I compromise durability over weight sometimes.

[North]

The other thing to keep in mind is just how good light gear is now. Talking about compromising on binding-> ski -> boot, the truth is with something like a plum race, zerog 95, alien RS, you are cutting like 1-1.5 kg per foot with no compromise in performance versus a decade ago.

Agreed. I'd be in a RS right now if I could get my head around the $$$/gram. Reality is I'm not logging big enough days to justify it. Yet.

[Angle Parking]

Can I add the 500-700 grams of snow each of my skis is usually carrying around in the form of Cascade powder stuck to the top sheets?

'Cause then my Zero G95's will weigh 1850-2050 grams each and be above your magic number. That way I won't be forced to ski like an old lady? I never knew lightweight skis caused me to ski like an old lady. Remind me to grab my heavy skis before I show off.

You have 500 to 700 grams of snow stuck to each of your skis as you descend? Sounds like you do indeed ski like an old lady.

[trogdortheburninator]

Still, I watched the altitoy ski MOUNTAINEERING race in France, 10,000 + skiers and only the top free looked like they were in control on the downhill.

And also watch all sorts of randonee skiers on light gear, all fast uphill, but really struggling on the down.

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I think it’s common to want to equate the style observed in a skimo race with the style/performance one can achieve skiing mountains on the slightly heavier gear espoused in this thread. All the while forgetting that the former is a race. The goal is to go as fast as possible start to finish. No style points are awarded. A 700 g race ski will top out an hr-ish climb minutes faster than an 1100 g ski. The descent will come with indescribably tired legs. The skis would be harder than usual to ski fresh, but tired, it really is just survival. Nonetheless, even the best descenders in the sport (read: absolutely phenomenal skiers) might only gain 30 s over a more average competitor who is looking like a total goon. Take that same average competitor, stick them on 1200 g skis, let them climb at all-day pace instead of hypoxic race pace, and odds are you get some darn good skiing on the down.

[AweShuksan]

You have 500 to 700 grams of snow stuck to each of your skis as you descend? Sounds like you do indeed ski like an old lady.

It's not uncommon in the Cascades to encounter conditions that are conducive to snow buildup on the top sheet that's difficult to remove, even with a gloved hand at the end of the day. It has little to do with skiing style. I get it on all my skis but it does seem like it's worse on my Lib Tech's with the "bio-bean" top sheets. It probably doesn't help that my skis are usually above 32 degrees when I take the first run of the day. On the upside, it adds quite a bit of dampness and crud-busting ability to them.