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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    off on yet another Tangent
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    2,838
    Personally, I think it's a 'must have tool' for any DIYer for base flattening, structuring, base repairs and even wax removal. Especially over time.

    It can be labor intensive or super quick and convenient depending on the task. Structuring and base repair material removal can take seconds to minutes. Major base planing can take time and effort. You have the choice to decide whether it's worth the effort or not for the given task. You can micro manage how much removal ('grinding') you want to perform so as to not remove all your waxing efforts to 'freshen' the base. You can quickly open more aggressive structure for wetter snows or reduce for finer, colder snows.

    Sometimes the goal of getting your bases dead flat is not your smartest or best option. For edge high, possibly a 1 or 2cm of flat base along the edge is all that is needed. More only takes away more material and does not necessarily improve performance. Same for base high. Also, the softer the snow the less it matters. You can flatten in stages and see how the skis change or not.

    In the time I typed this, I could have restructured my bases or clean up a few base repairs.......
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

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  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Glacier, WA
    Posts
    366
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
    You can flatten in stages and see how the skis change or not.
    It's certainly possible to flatten the bases in stages but it's pretty time consuming to do it that way because base flattening requires multiple hot waxings following removal of base material. The bases will really absorb a lot of wax after the pore structure is opened up. I prefer to do it in one go.

    Most people will want bases almost flat (very slightly base high is better than edge high). The best way to achieve that is to scrape the bases until they are flat (or very close to it) and then add your preferred edge bevel. Use the minimum iron temperature needed to get the wax to flow because too hot of an iron will close the base structure again and your skis will be slow and not hold wax well.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Glacier, WA
    Posts
    366
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thomas View Post
    So the bottom line is that these tools actually work pretty well but take a lot of time???
    Most skis I've done were a little base high but not evenly so across the skis or from tip to tail. Just draw the Ski Visions tool down the length of the ski and pay attention to where the most shavings are coming from. After a few passes it will start to even out. The key is to watch what the tool is telling you and to focus your efforts on the areas that need the most removal. Getting it close is usually good enough. Better to stop a little early. I've never found a pair of skis that were not significantly improved by a bit of base scraping, both in glide and in turning responsiveness and precision (consistency).

    It takes a lot less time than the edge tuning and waxing.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    3,929
    Got one of these last week. Agree with most the comments here. Well worth the money -- the main costs must be in the stones. The planer isn't anything fancy but works fine.

    Thus far I've done three pairs of skis
    - One had a bunch of light scratches but were basically flat. 10 minutes of work had structure reapplied over the scratches, and then smoothed out.
    - One pair had a number of large core shots that needed refinishing. And were pretty base high. Probably 20 minutes of work to get things relatively smooth and bases flattened. Felt sort of wonky working on this pair because of the microcambers (Deathwish) but overall look way better than prior.
    - Last pair was a set of touring sticks. One of them was edge high underfoot. This definitely takes some time to bring the edges down with the tool, but it works. They don't look quite as good as fresh base grind, but its pretty close and I didn't have to pay a store or haul them down there.

    Next ones I do I'll make sure to take before/after photos.

    Pretty easy on skis up to 100mm. The bigger sticks take a little more care with even pressure and some side to side adjustment. Nonetheless, its pretty hard to fuck up skis with this.

    Whether they actually ski better or not, who knows. I'm not a pro and mostly ski soft snow so it won't really matter. But it makes wax go on nice, they look prettier and it gives me a good excuse to spend more time working on skis instead of the house.

    I could totally see owning the file-based tool for real planing work.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Lake Wallenpaupack, PA
    Posts
    823
    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    Got one of these last week. Agree with most the comments here. Well worth the money -- the main costs must be in the stones. The planer isn't anything fancy but works fine.

    Thus far I've done three pairs of skis
    - One had a bunch of light scratches but were basically flat. 10 minutes of work had structure reapplied over the scratches, and then smoothed out.
    - One pair had a number of large core shots that needed refinishing. And were pretty base high. Probably 20 minutes of work to get things relatively smooth and bases flattened. Felt sort of wonky working on this pair because of the microcambers (Deathwish) but overall look way better than prior.
    - Last pair was a set of touring sticks. One of them was edge high underfoot. This definitely takes some time to bring the edges down with the tool, but it works. They don't look quite as good as fresh base grind, but its pretty close and I didn't have to pay a store or haul them down there.

    Next ones I do I'll make sure to take before/after photos.

    Pretty easy on skis up to 100mm. The bigger sticks take a little more care with even pressure and some side to side adjustment. Nonetheless, its pretty hard to fuck up skis with this.

    Whether they actually ski better or not, who knows. I'm not a pro and mostly ski soft snow so it won't really matter. But it makes wax go on nice, they look prettier and it gives me a good excuse to spend more time working on skis instead of the house.

    I could totally see owning the file-based tool for real planing work.
    If u can...post some pics....Iíve been interested in this tool for my shop at home.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    3,929
    Quote Originally Posted by BC. View Post
    If u can...post some pics....I’ve been interested in this tool for my shop at home.
    Will do. Think I only have the Mrs. skis left that could use some structuring work. The other skis in the quiver are pretty much already ready to go.

    This does make buying true beaters to test my repair skills on more tempting.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    Got one of these last week. Agree with most the comments here. Well worth the money -- the main costs must be in the stones. The planer isn't anything fancy but works fine.

    Thus far I've done three pairs of skis
    - One had a bunch of light scratches but were basically flat. 10 minutes of work had structure reapplied over the scratches, and then smoothed out.
    - One pair had a number of large core shots that needed refinishing. And were pretty base high. Probably 20 minutes of work to get things relatively smooth and bases flattened. Felt sort of wonky working on this pair because of the microcambers (Deathwish) but overall look way better than prior.
    - Last pair was a set of touring sticks. One of them was edge high underfoot. This definitely takes some time to bring the edges down with the tool, but it works. They don't look quite as good as fresh base grind, but its pretty close and I didn't have to pay a store or haul them down there.

    Next ones I do I'll make sure to take before/after photos.

    Pretty easy on skis up to 100mm. The bigger sticks take a little more care with even pressure and some side to side adjustment. Nonetheless, its pretty hard to fuck up skis with this.

    Whether they actually ski better or not, who knows. I'm not a pro and mostly ski soft snow so it won't really matter. But it makes wax go on nice, they look prettier and it gives me a good excuse to spend more time working on skis instead of the house.

    I could totally see owning the file-based tool for real planing work.
    Doebedoe, I recognize your username from the COsnow subreddit. Bit of background, I've never really liked my skis. They have always seemed a little twitchy. I have always just assumed I need to get the edges sharpened more often, but after a weekend of skiing on demo skis that I could steer on rails and getting back on to mine and constantly having my downhill leg slide out on me on icy patches, I thought there must be some other reason.

    Did some research and learned about having "base high" bases and from everything I've read, it sounds like what I'm experiencing. So I'm on the hunt for a place to get the bases flattened (I know, I know I should learn to do it myself). I had these skis tuned at Crystal's in Boulder last year, so I'm somewhat hesitant to take them back there, but if I do, I'll definitely call this issue out specifically so they can correct. I just don't think they have a machine to do it (which I've read is better than trusting a potentially untrained tech to do it by hand...) Do you have any other recommendations? Given that these are now my beater skis, hoping to not spend a fortune. Doesn't have to be perfect, but would like to actually trust my edges on the hardpack.

    Appreciate it!

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
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    3,929
    Quote Originally Posted by cjohns716 View Post
    Doebedoe, I recognize your username from the COsnow subreddit. Bit of background, I've never really liked my skis. They have always seemed a little twitchy. I have always just assumed I need to get the edges sharpened more often, but after a weekend of skiing on demo skis that I could steer on rails and getting back on to mine and constantly having my downhill leg slide out on me on icy patches, I thought there must be some other reason.

    Did some research and learned about having "base high" bases and from everything I've read, it sounds like what I'm experiencing. So I'm on the hunt for a place to get the bases flattened (I know, I know I should learn to do it myself). I had these skis tuned at Crystal's in Boulder last year, so I'm somewhat hesitant to take them back there, but if I do, I'll definitely call this issue out specifically so they can correct. I just don't think they have a machine to do it (which I've read is better than trusting a potentially untrained tech to do it by hand...) Do you have any other recommendations? Given that these are now my beater skis, hoping to not spend a fortune. Doesn't have to be perfect, but would like to actually trust my edges on the hardpack.

    Appreciate it!
    Evo in Denver is good (former Edgeworks team is still largely there). Denver Sports Lab in Golden is great. I'll let someone else answer from up North answer the boulder questions. (I'd guess Neptune?)

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    Evo in Denver is good (former Edgeworks team is still largely there). Denver Sports Lab in Golden is great. I'll let someone else answer from up North answer the boulder questions. (I'd guess Neptune?)
    Alpine Base and Edge in Boulder is the race tune shop. They're a funky looking shop but they have a high-end Wintersteiger base grinding machine and (more importantly) their owner and staff actually know how to use it properly. They won't take off too much material or put the wrong base pattern in your skis or put the wrong bevels on your skis.

    If you specify the bevels you want they'll do what you specify, but I think their all-mountain default is 2 degrees on the edges and 1 degree on the base.

    They are relatively expensive, and the owner Peter is very no-nonsense. If you tell Peter the symptoms you're experiencing he should be able to trouble-shoot your tune and recommend a fix.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,297
    What's the cheap / easy / already in my garage way to check if my bases are all flat?


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  11. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Posts
    11,316
    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    What's the cheap / easy / already in my garage way to check if my bases are all flat?
    Get a true bar from slidewright.com, turn the light on:
    And I guess that I just don't know

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    242

    Opinions on the Ski Visions base flattener???

    Get a metal ruler or other straight edge, test it for straightness against a window pane, then do what meadow skipperís photo shows, checking for light under the straight edge.

    Not to say a true bar isnít worth it. It is.


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  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,581
    Old thread with good recommendations from upallnight
    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...69-Base-planer

    Somewhere on the forum, he posted before and after photos of dumpster skis that he brought back to the living using the ski Visions tool.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by ClayCole View Post
    Alpine Base and Edge in Boulder is the race tune shop. They're a funky looking shop but they have a high-end Wintersteiger base grinding machine and (more importantly) their owner and staff actually know how to use it properly. They won't take off too much material or put the wrong base pattern in your skis or put the wrong bevels on your skis.

    If you specify the bevels you want they'll do what you specify, but I think their all-mountain default is 2 degrees on the edges and 1 degree on the base.

    They are relatively expensive, and the owner Peter is very no-nonsense. If you tell Peter the symptoms you're experiencing he should be able to trouble-shoot your tune and recommend a fix.
    Ya, I saw them come up in a Google search. Was hoping not to spend quite that much, since these skis will be the designated rock/ early season/ beat around skis. That being said, if the bases will stay flat for a while, maybe it's worth it. Any idea how or why mine ended up so out of whack?

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,297
    Think I'm gonna get one. Is there a "wide" version?


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  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Alpental
    Posts
    5,553
    Why I like the base planer.







    Less than 10min work time.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    2,791
    I have used one for a few years to flatten my bases. I do it once a year or more if skiing one ski a lot and I make the time. Perhaps because I do it infrequently I find it takes a good amount of patience to get the whole ski right. Finished product looks home done relative to a high end machine, but I am pretty happy with how the stone does and then knocking it down with the metal bar (don't need a true bar with the kit) and waxing and brushing.

    If you have the time and like to work on your skis saves the cost of bringing them in.

    I have done 114 waist skis with it. Would think tool is useless for base flattening on real wide skis or a snowboard.

    I have not used it to bring down edges. East coast problems

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    242
    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    Why I like the base planer

    Less than 10min work time.
    Nice work, Mofro. Is that a ptex welder or a glue gun that happens to get hot enough to melt ptex?

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,741
    Iíd really like to get hold of the file base flattener. But it sounds like it wonít be available any time in the near to mid future.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,581

    Opinions on the Ski Visions base flattener???

    Bump

    Iíve been using my skivisions base flattened and structuring tool more and more lately. Iíve been following the vid instructions/methods from the skivisions guy, focusing on using the stone and minimal use of the blade. One of my wifeís skis her base high. It took a LONG time to get them pretty flat using the stone. In the future, should I have use the metal blade instead? Does it remove more material per pass compared to the stone? Also, the stone has some ski wax on it now, even though I used base cleaner (and a scraper) a few times on the skis. Is there a good way to get the wax off without fouling the stone? The wax is on the edge that I would not ďlap,Ē per instructions....

    Super stoked on the tool!

    Cheers

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,464
    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Bump

    Iíve been using my skivisions base flattened and structuring tool more and more lately. Iíve been following the vid instructions/methods from the skivisions guy, focusing on using the stone and minimal use of the blade. One of my wifeís skis her base high. It took a LONG time to get them pretty flat using the stone. In the future, should I have use the metal blade instead? Does it remove more material per pass compared to the stone? Also, the stone has some ski wax on it now, even though I used base cleaner (and a scraper) a few times on the skis. Is there a good way to get the wax off without fouling the stone? The wax is on the edge that I would not ďlap,Ē per instructions....

    Super stoked on the tool!

    Cheers
    He has a YouTube video showing how to use a diamond "stone" to sharpen the stone. You only run it on two of the 4 surfaces. It makes a big difference.

    Use the hardened steel blade for base high. I also use it to clean up ptex patches.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,741
    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Bump

    Iíve been using my skivisions base flattened and structuring tool more and more lately. Iíve been following the vid instructions/methods from the skivisions guy, focusing on using the stone and minimal use of the blade. One of my wifeís skis her base high. It took a LONG time to get them pretty flat using the stone. In the future, should I have use the metal blade instead? Does it remove more material per pass compared to the stone? Also, the stone has some ski wax on it now, even though I used base cleaner (and a scraper) a few times on the skis. Is there a good way to get the wax off without fouling the stone? The wax is on the edge that I would not ďlap,Ē per instructions....

    Super stoked on the tool!

    Cheers
    Email I got back from Mark at skivisions when I emailed him for tips on making a base flat more quickly with his tool:


    Crybaby. Go to the hardware store and get a 10" double cut mill bastard file. Now you have to use it EXACTLY as I say. Take the butt of your palm of hand and put it on top of the file. Tang in right hand if right-handed. Push the file down the ski two handed feeling that file cut. Like crazy. Metal and plastic. Do 1 edge at a time and check EVERYTHING after every pass down the ski. Rotate edge to edge one pass down each side. DON'T GET CARRIED AWAY! You are making magic not a mess. Just do it. Let me know. Oh, that file can make a mess. Clean it all up with my tools.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    165
    That is some badass customer service right there. I donít need more tuning tools but this thread is giving me the itch...

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,581
    Thanks for the response.

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    He has a YouTube video showing how to use a diamond "stone" to sharpen the stone. You only run it on two of the 4 surfaces. It makes a big difference.

    Use the hardened steel blade for base high. I also use it to clean up ptex patches.

    ... Thom
    The wax is on both the side of the stone that I would not sharpen with Emery paper and the side that I would/will sharpen.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
    Posts
    1,428
    I really like the flattener and wanted to get the file tool, however, Mark from Ski Visions doesn't seem very confident that the file tool will be available any time soon.
    I went ahead and made my own version. I just routered a groove in a piece of hickory I had (very hard wood so it will remain flat) and epoxied a couple magnets in place to hold the file.

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    It works pretty well, especially dealing with edge-high issues. I run it over the entire base first and use the flattener tool after I'm sure the edges are level with the base. This should also save a lot of wear on the flat steel cutter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jer View Post
    After the first three seconds, Corbet's is really pretty average.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Malcolm View Post
    I mean, it's not your fault. They say talent skips a generation.
    But hey, I'm sure your kids will be sharp as tacks.

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