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  1. #726
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    yeah buddy was a larger than life kinda guy, he should definalty have something named after him

    sadly Terry Fox never made it across Canada before getting sick again, but no doubts in my mind he could have
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  2. #727
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    To follow-up on the snow entering the boot, here are some pics and some very shitty drawings, hopefully it makes some sense/

    This shows the large openings around the walk mode mechanism when the boot is in uphill mode. In this pic the buckles are opened but latched to their ski position and the cuff is angled back (mimicking what happens when you push you ski forward):

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And from the inside with the liner in place:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What I think happens is when you push the foot forward the cuff and hinged walk mode (the vertical bar of black spastic with the rivets at the top) swing back and there are 2 openings between shell and cuff (circled in red) for snow to creep in and stick to the liner. In theory the hinged walked mode overlaps with the lower cuff enough that snow would have to creep way up to reach the liner but as you can see in the pic there's a gap between the low points in the shell and the back plastic that is supposed to overlap with the shell. I think snow piles up there.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    When you bring your foot back and flex the boot forward the hinged walk flips forward and probably pushes the snow down into the shell. Since the liner is flexed forward the snow sneaks behind the heel and accumulates under the liner.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Anyway, I think I'll just try to raise the low points in the shell with a tape barrier ad see if that improves things. I don't mind a snowy liner but the raised heel was definitely concerning, And if the temps had not been ridiculously low I could see all that snow melting and turning the boot into a swamp which presents its own set of problems.

  3. #728
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    Maybe wear ski pants?

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  4. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Maybe wear ski pants?

    ... Thom
    Already covered, my assless chaps are listed in Gear Swap.

    Seriously though, I love the ZeroGs but if the engineering solution to avoid a 1/2" of snow under your liners is a new pair of pants I'm going to be a tad annoyed...

  5. #730
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    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    Well that sucks. I have short legs, and my pants fit a tad long. I wonder if this is one of those rare, lucky instances for me.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  6. #731
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    137
    I bet your "problem" is that your snow is too light. It only happens on the best pow days, right? I've heard of the same type of issue on snowmobiles. Some places the snow is so light that it infiltrates the engine bay and the heat of the engine turns it into an ice block (like the snow that balled up under your liner). Other places (like here in the Cascades) the snow tends to stay put and it's never an issue. i have the same boots and there has been zero intrusion in my 10 or so days of pow touring with them so far.

    On a separate note, these boots pretty much live up to the hype.

  7. #732
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Boulder
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    1,051
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Well that sucks. I have short legs, and my pants fit a tad long. I wonder if this is one of those rare, lucky instances for me.

    ... Thom
    I think Boissal is the outlier here. 30 page thread and 4 pals in my touring group that use ZzeroGs and it's the first I've heard of it. I've used them with 3 different pairs of pants - no issues. Winter touring pants have inner gaiters, but I keep them above the buckles and only cover the powerstraps. Spring touring pants do not have an inner gaiter and I've had no issues there either, but I'm not certain if I've toured in light, deep powder with that combo.

    It's either the pants, a one-off lemon of a boot, or Utah powder is just too blower and has unique boot ingress properties.

  8. #733
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    Jan 2005
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    Wish I could get my somewhat high instep foot into these boots. Tried 3 different sizes at a demo event, used all the usual tricks. I was able to crowbar my foot into a 29.5 but those shells had like 4 cm of space behind the heel with liner out.

    Generally my foot is average enough that pretty much any boot works well enough with some (or no) finetuning but zeroG’s are a non starter for me.

  9. #734
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Wish I could get my somewhat high instep foot into these boots. Tried 3 different sizes at a demo event, used all the usual tricks. I was able to crowbar my foot into a 29.5 but those shells had like 4 cm of space behind the heel with liner out.

    Generally my foot is average enough that pretty much any boot works well enough with some (or no) finetuning but zeroGís are a non starter for me.
    I'm fairly certain @gregL has commented on this, earlier in this thread.

    They're definitely not high insteps, but trying on with an unmolded liner is definitely a problem.

    I temporarily used them with the stock Scarpa/Intuition liners molded for my higher volume, mango Maestrales and was begging for mercy (instep and forward). When my Tour Wraps arrived and were molded, that fixed it.

    If I recall, the boot board is fairly thick, so there might be some room to be made there as well.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 01-23-2020 at 10:20 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  10. #735
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    Sep 2014
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    1,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Anyway, I think I'll just try to raise the low points in the shell with a tape barrier ad see if that improves things. I don't mind a snowy liner but the raised heel was definitely concerning, And if the temps had not been ridiculously low I could see all that snow melting and turning the boot into a swamp which presents its own set of problems.

    hmmm, interesting. Just for the hell of it, i checked the same spoiler/cuff/shell tolerance of my vulcans. Looks like the same 'gaposis' issue. However, I did notice that my intuition high volume liners really mushroomed out during the baking and seem to create a pretty tight seal where they contact the actual low parts of the rear lower shell area. I haven't had any issues of snow creeping in, even in super low density blower, deep, small grain sized faceted snow crystals, etc...

    And just spittballing some ideas here, but: just wondering if your tecnica liners just don't have that tight of a seal/fit in that area, and could be part of the issue? Also, do the liners with yer feet in 'em slide back and forth in the shell? It might not take many mm's of gap opening and closing with every step to begin that process of allowing snow to drop down to heel and start building and further, compacting with every step and micro movement. Maybe that idea of creating some sort of barrier like you said will fix it.

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    Last edited by swissiphic; 01-24-2020 at 09:48 AM.
    Master of mediocrity.

  11. #736
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    SLC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wapow View Post
    I bet your "problem" is that your snow is too light. It only happens on the best pow days, right? I've heard of the same type of issue on snowmobiles. Some places the snow is so light that it infiltrates the engine bay and the heat of the engine turns it into an ice block (like the snow that balled up under your liner). Other places (like here in the Cascades) the snow tends to stay put and it's never an issue. i have the same boots and there has been zero intrusion in my 10 or so days of pow touring with them so far.

    On a separate note, these boots pretty much live up to the hype.
    It happened consistently in Canada where temps never got into positive territory. Not issues in the Wasatch but we've had a warm winter. I bet you (and others) are right and it's due to ridiculously dry snow creeping up everywhere, something I probably won't be dealing with every day of the year. I was just shocked that it got so bad that my heel was being lifted.
    Totally agree about the hype BTW, the boots are freakin amazing!

    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    hmmm, interesting. Just for the hell of it, i checked the same spoiler/cuff/shell tolerance of my vulcans. Looks like the same 'gaposis' issue. However, I did notice that my intuition high volume liners really mushroomed out during the baking and seem to create a pretty tight seal where they contact the actual low parts of the rear lower shell area. I haven't had any issues of snow creeping in, even in super low density blower, deep, small grain sized faceted snow crystals, etc...

    And just spittballing some ideas here, but: just wondering if your tecnica liners just don't have that tight of a seal/fit in that area, and could be part of the issue? Also, do the liners with yer feet in 'em slide back and forth in the shell? It might not take many mm's of gap opening and closing with every step to begin that process of allowing snow to drop down to heel and start building and further, compacting with every step and micro movement. Maybe that idea of creating some sort of barrier like you said will fix it.
    I think you're spot on, my liners actually flattened out in the back during baking and that definitely increased the clearance between shell and foam. I'll tinker with tape and see if I can deal with it.

  12. #737
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    906
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Wish I could get my somewhat high instep foot into these boots. Tried 3 different sizes at a demo event, used all the usual tricks. I was able to crowbar my foot into a 29.5 but those shells had like 4 cm of space behind the heel with liner out.

    Generally my foot is average enough that pretty much any boot works well enough with some (or no) finetuning but zeroG’s are a non starter for me.
    Interesting, I definitely have a high instep and was able to make the boots work even without baking the liners or grinding the boot board. Yeah it's a little hard to get into but not as hard as my Salomon Xpro's. Although getting Tour Pro liners in my ZGTP and getting a proper bake on them has made the boots heaven. If I had sized them as tight as my Alpine boots I would definitely need to grind the boot board and bake the liners.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  13. #738
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    ut
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    777
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Wish I could get my somewhat high instep foot into these boots. Tried 3 different sizes at a demo event, used all the usual tricks. I was able to crowbar my foot into a 29.5 but those shells had like 4 cm of space behind the heel with liner out.

    Generally my foot is average enough that pretty much any boot works well enough with some (or no) finetuning but zeroG’s are a non starter for me.
    I'm a bit puzzled by this. I have relatively low volume feet (generally always in a LV mold) and pretty high insteps. I rarely need to buckle the instep buckle on anything I've ever worn. No way I could ski in most Salomon boots due to how low the instep is. I jam my 13 foot into a 28.5 ZGTP and haven't had any need to do any work to get my instep in there. The instep buckle is on the first rung and has virtually no tension but it's not painful at all.

  14. #739
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    Mar 2008
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    Boulder
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    Dunno where my instep falls on the spectrum of high vs. low but original Mango Maestrales always caused pain over the instep for me. No problems with ZG.

  15. #740
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    Mar 2018
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    mammoth
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
    I'm a bit puzzled by this. I have relatively low volume feet (generally always in a LV mold) and pretty high insteps. I rarely need to buckle the instep buckle on anything I've ever worn. No way I could ski in most Salomon boots due to how low the instep is. I jam my 13 foot into a 28.5 ZGTP and haven't had any need to do any work to get my instep in there. The instep buckle is on the first rung and has virtually no tension but it's not painful at all.
    It seems you and I have the same kinda feet, only I'm 3 sizes smaller.

    I'm in a 25.5 ZGTP and I haven't had any issue with the instep either. Also barely tighten it as well because usually it's a sore spot for me.

    The ZGTPs have fit me exceptionally well out of the box. I've done a little work (added foam to the heel cups, canted the boot board a little bit, swapped orthotics for downunders, added larger lange spoilers, and added booster strap), but otherwise I'm very impressed with this boot. It's needed far less work than any other boot i've been in.
    aerospace eng with a gravity fetish
    ig


  16. #741
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
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    3,151
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Wish I could get my somewhat high instep foot into these boots. Tried 3 different sizes at a demo event, used all the usual tricks. I was able to crowbar my foot into a 29.5 but those shells had like 4 cm of space behind the heel with liner out.

    Generally my foot is average enough that pretty much any boot works well enough with some (or no) finetuning but zeroGís are a non starter for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    Interesting, I definitely have a high instep and was able to make the boots work even without baking the liners or grinding the boot board. Yeah it's a little hard to get into but not as hard as my Salomon Xpro's. Although getting Tour Pro liners in my ZGTP and getting a proper bake on them has made the boots heaven. If I had sized them as tight as my Alpine boots I would definitely need to grind the boot board and bake the liners.


    Quote Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
    I'm a bit puzzled by this. I have relatively low volume feet (generally always in a LV mold) and pretty high insteps. I rarely need to buckle the instep buckle on anything I've ever worn. No way I could ski in most Salomon boots due to how low the instep is. I jam my 13 foot into a 28.5 ZGTP and haven't had any need to do any work to get my instep in there. The instep buckle is on the first rung and has virtually no tension but it's not painful at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by North View Post
    Dunno where my instep falls on the spectrum of high vs. low but original Mango Maestrales always caused pain over the instep for me. No problems with ZG.

    Quote Originally Posted by macon View Post
    It seems you and I have the same kinda feet, only I'm 3 sizes smaller.

    I'm in a 25.5 ZGTP and I haven't had any issue with the instep either. Also barely tighten it as well because usually it's a sore spot for me.

    The ZGTPs have fit me exceptionally well out of the box. I've done a little work (added foam to the heel cups, canted the boot board a little bit, swapped orthotics for downunders, added larger lange spoilers, and added booster strap), but otherwise I'm very impressed with this boot. It's needed far less work than any other boot i've been in.


    Just stepping in to agree. These boots have a fair amount of instep height, not as much as the last version but more than anything I can think of besides the Scott Comsos/Celeste. They are stupid hard to get your foot into though, as others have stated I don't like doing it unless I put the liner on first. The stock liner can feel tight for a bit but packs out in every direction rather quickly. I need help in the instep on most boots and went to a tourwrap and have been happy in this boot. I do wish the cuff buckles had a catch though, thinking about trying a TLT ladder to see if it works...

    wasatchback - The new S series Salomons have way more instep height than anything of prior but not more than any medium volume tecnica if we are just talking shell height. This is just a reference point for users that havn't put an old salomon on that did indeed crush the instep.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  17. #742
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eluder View Post
    Just stepping in to agree. These boots have a fair amount of instep height, not as much as the last version but more than anything I can think of besides the Scott Comsos/Celeste. They are stupid hard to get your foot into though, as others have stated I don't like doing it unless I put the liner on first. The stock liner can feel tight for a bit but packs out in every direction rather quickly. I need help in the instep on most boots and went to a tourwrap and have been happy in this boot. I do wish the cuff buckles had a catch though, thinking about trying a TLT ladder to see if it works...

    wasatchback - The new S series Salomons have way more instep height than anything of prior but not more than any medium volume tecnica if we are just talking shell height. This is just a reference point for users that havn't put an old salomon on that did indeed crush the instep.
    I went back and forth - using the laces with my Tour Wraps, to insert/remove foot into/from shell together with liner.

    Its definitely easier in and out, but they're so light that I have visions of our Front Range wind blowing them away at the car due to a tired mistake @ the end of a tour.

    Tour Wraps (and wraps in general) are much easier to spread and get into an overlap shell than a tongued liner for me, so I returned to leaving the liner in the shell.

    You can use the liner for leverage to spread the shell and liner together with a wrap liner. I have a messed up thumb tendon, so this is an important usability feature for me.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 01-25-2020 at 10:52 AM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  18. #743
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    10
    I really want to like this boot... While it skis great, it seems to have some noticeable flaws (one being the removable boot board, that moves around while walking). However, the current issue I'm dealing with is cold air seeping into the cuff area of the boot when skiing downhill fully buckled. I had it happening on my left boot with Intuition Pro Tour liners. I then decided to get Intuition Tour Wraps thinking they would be warmer, and it started happening more on the right boot cuff. The cold air was noticeably seeping in on 40 degree days. I haven't taped up the gaps around the cuff, in the front of the boot or the two big gaps in the back of the boot (which according to other posts, snow gets up into the boot while touring). I've never had this cold air sensation while skiing downhill or touring in any other alpine ski boot or ski touring boot (Dynafit Mercury or Dyanfit TLT5).

    The cold air / snow holes, will seemingly be a huge problem on long tours, very cold days... so I need to figure out the best way to fill in the gaps to prevent my legs / feet from freezing. Anyone else having issues with cold air blowing into the boot around the cuff area. If so, did you do anything to prevent this or correct the problem.

    Thanks

  19. #744
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    Mar 2018
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    mammoth
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    This is odd to me because, in any case, the shell is not the insulating layer. Your feet should stay warm in just your liners without the boot shell. If you're feeling cold air then it's because your liners are interacting with the shell in a strange way - creating a gap.

    Are you sure it's the cold air you're feeling from a gap in the shell? It could be that the shell and liner are interacting in such a way that it causes a bellows effect, and the cold air is not actually from the cuff of the boot. Have you tried to narrow down where and how the liner is opening up when inside the boot?
    Last edited by macon; 01-25-2020 at 02:35 PM. Reason: a word
    aerospace eng with a gravity fetish
    ig


  20. #745
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    Apr 2006
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    SF & the Ho
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    5,983
    Do you wear socks?

  21. #746
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    10
    It's not actually my feet that are getting the cold air, it's my lower leg area (mostly feel the cold air on the front of the outside side of my legs (Fibula bone side)... right leg, right side, left leg, left side. As for socks, I started using the Cody Townsend Le Bent socks, and like them a lot so far, also skied with Smartwool socks... socks aren't the issue. It seems to be something around the cuff of the boot.

    Thanks Macon... I'll put in the stock liners and give those a try next and see what happens, as I still haven't skied the boot with them in yet.

  22. #747
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    69
    Anyone have any direct experience with both the Tecnica Mach 1 LV 130 and the Zero G Tour Pro?

    I ski an earlier model (2016/17 i think) mach 1 LV 130 and now considering the Zero G.

    Wondering how they fit and ski in comparison?

  23. #748
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    ut
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdeaner14 View Post
    Anyone have any direct experience with both the Tecnica Mach 1 LV 130 and the Zero G Tour Pro?

    I ski an earlier model (2016/17 i think) mach 1 LV 130 and now considering the Zero G.

    Wondering how they fit and ski in comparison?
    Fit might be a touch more relaxed than that LV. That LV mold is actually a really old inferno mold that we reworked
    a bit to make it slightly more anatomical. It's really hard to compare the skiability of the two boots. One weighs almost
    2lbs per boot less than the other and has a fully rockered rubber sole. They might have similar stance angles I guess.

  24. #749
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    Sep 2016
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    Swapped out the stock liners today and ran the old liner Intuition liners from my tele Scarpa TX Pro ntn boots. Wow. Much better fit. The shells are maybe too big, but the Intuitions took up a lot of the excess volume and made it feel and ski down much better. The skin up, with a tongue liner without laces did chew up my heels. Wondering if the Tour Pro with the laces will be a better bet. Think the Tour Wrap will allow for too much heel movement on the ascent. Thoughts?

    Sorry to those with trouble getting into the boot. Guy in the lodge recommended spraying the liners with silicon. Anyone have experience?

  25. #750
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    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    1,741
    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Swapped out the stock liners today and ran the old liner Intuition liners from my tele Scarpa TX Pro ntn boots. Wow. Much better fit. The shells are maybe too big, but the Intuitions took up a lot of the excess volume and made it feel and ski down much better. The skin up, with a tongue liner without laces did chew up my heels. Wondering if the Tour Pro with the laces will be a better bet. Think the Tour Wrap will allow for too much heel movement on the ascent. Thoughts?

    Sorry to those with trouble getting into the boot. Guy in the lodge recommended spraying the liners with silicon. Anyone have experience?
    Never liked the tour pro myself. Fiddly tongue and I donít need/use laces. I do have some race fx in mine right now. Which with the dual density foam tour great with no heel blisters. Trying tour wrap soon.

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