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  1. #176
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,182
    I have a high instep and have been in the last couple generations of Cochise 120/130 with great results. (The original Maestrale RS crushed my instep.) Just got a pair of slightly-used Tour Pros and they fit amazing, not even going to heat mold the liners.

  2. #177
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    I have a high instep and have been in the last couple generations of Cochise 120/130 with great results. (The original Maestrale RS crushed my instep.) Just got a pair of slightly-used Tour Pros and they fit amazing, not even going to heat mold the liners.
    I'm interested in the flex compared to the cochise 130. You're using the factory liner? How stiff are they really? Booster strap?

  3. #178
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    11,305
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Hawx 130 XTD can do full shell molding and its recommended.

    What about the Technica ZG Tour Pro?
    No. ZGTP is puncheable like any other boot

  4. #179
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    403
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    I have a high instep and have been in the last couple generations of Cochise 120/130 with great results. (The original Maestrale RS crushed my instep.) Just got a pair of slightly-used Tour Pros and they fit amazing, not even going to heat mold the liners.
    Quote Originally Posted by M3Mike02 View Post
    I'm interested in the flex compared to the cochise 130. You're using the factory liner? How stiff are they really? Booster strap?
    Cochise and Zero G fit completely differently. Zero G is much narrower. Flex on Zero G is softer, as well. Great boot if it fits you, but don't expect it to fit you because the Cochise did.

  5. #180
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    17,694
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    No. ZGTP is puncheable like any other boot
    What is it that makes a boot fully formable vs just punchable? The bravery of the bootfitter?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  6. #181
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    403
    The type of plastic used. Fully heat moldable shell boots like the XTD use a plastic which becomes malleable at a much lower temp. Around 200 degrees, iirc. They can, and do, lose their custom molding if you leave them in a hot car in the sun, requiring you to take them back to the shop and do the custom molding process over again.

  7. #182
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,152
    Quote Originally Posted by nomad_games View Post
    Cochise and Zero G fit completely differently. Zero G is much narrower. Flex on Zero G is softer, as well. Great boot if it fits you, but don't expect it to fit you because the Cochise did.
    Current Cochise and Zero G use the same 99mm last. If they fit differently it is because of the liner; if anything my Zero G Guide Pros are roomier than the Cochise 120/130 because of a thinner and lighter liner.

  8. #183
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whistler
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by nomad_games View Post
    The type of plastic used. Fully heat moldable shell boots like the XTD use a plastic which becomes malleable at a much lower temp. Around 200 degrees, iirc. They can, and do, lose their custom molding if you leave them in a hot car in the sun, requiring you to take them back to the shop and do the custom molding process over again.
    my experience with the xtd says the shell heat molding has a very minimal effect. ymmv but i call mostly marketing hocus pocus. If you need a punch you need a punch, at best this might make break in a bit more mellow.

  9. #184
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    403
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Current Cochise and Zero G use the same 99mm last. If they fit differently it is because of the liner; if anything my Zero G Guide Pros are roomier than the Cochise 120/130 because of a thinner and lighter liner.
    that's not true. They may both use a 99mm last, it is not the same. I was shell fit in both at 28.5 and the zero g is much narrower. 28.5 in the Cochise fits me perfectly, 28.5 in the Zero G, my foot hits the shell in about 5 places without the liner in it.

  10. #185
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    403
    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    my experience with the xtd says the shell heat molding has a very minimal effect. ymmv but i call mostly marketing hocus pocus. If you need a punch you need a punch, at best this might make break in a bit more mellow.
    several dudes at my shop would disagree. boot didnt agree with their feet before, afterwards had a really good fit.

  11. #186
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
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    3,152
    Quote Originally Posted by nomad_games View Post
    that's not true. They may both use a 99mm last, it is not the same. I was shell fit in both at 28.5 and the zero g is much narrower. 28.5 in the Cochise fits me perfectly, 28.5 in the Zero G, my foot hits the shell in about 5 places without the liner in it.
    Hmmm. Lucky I was able to get the Zero G to fit my 104mm foot with a few punches, then.

  12. #187
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whistler
    Posts
    965
    Quote Originally Posted by nomad_games View Post
    several dudes at my shop would disagree. boot didnt agree with their feet before, afterwards had a really good fit.
    as i said, ymmv. to be fair, i didn't need a punch before, just a couple hot spots. i found the difference minimal but maybe i need to work with better boot techs, who knows?

  13. #188
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ukeetown
    Posts
    359
    Tried on the zgtp and the hawx side by side.

    Shell fit the zgtp was actually longer, about .5 finger in a 27.5

    My width measured out to 101 and both boots seemed doable there.

    I have highish insteps with the left foot noticeably higher from a bad break, and this is where the hawx fit me better. Zgtp was actually easier to get into but once done up I felt a pinching pressure over my left foot. Deal breaker for me.

    Also of note: walk modes seemed similar, for my skinny ankles and lower legs hawx had tighter fit, and Hawx felt stiffer but who the hell really can tell in a 22C shop without skis on.

    Zgtp is a really cool boot and I wanted it to work but ultimately went with hawx which I also have high hopes for.

  14. #189
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
    Posts
    5,129
    That's a great comparison; thank you! I like the idea of a tighter fit around the cuff and calf, so the Hawx is on my short list when I need to replace my Vulcans.

    Here's to hoping the Hoji boot comes out with a carbon cuff in a 130 flex to compete. I love an instep buckle for heel hold while touring, but Dynafit needs to step up their game to compete with these awesome new "130-flex" options in the 1300-1400g range.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 10-20-2018 at 12:10 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  15. #190
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,182
    One thing I've noticed with Tecnica's (and it probably goes for any boot), is you actually want the instep to feel a bit tight (but not crazy tight) when the boot is new. If the instep feels fine out of the box, after the liner breaks in after a few days you'll probably end up having to put a Bontex shim under the liner to take up some vertical space.

  16. #191
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,106
    I've always thought I had a fairly high instep (i barely tighten the lower two buckles) and thought my cochise 120s (2nd year, like '13 or '14 model?) had lots of room. Just picked up my ZGTPs and thought that while there was less room in the instep, they still felt good. Toebox felt great for me and this is prior to a heatmold. Still need to put my superfeet insoles in and then fine-tune but I'm excited. After however many days in the old cochises, even with powerwraps, the ZGTP also felt stiffer, but that was just a flex test.

    Was excited about the Hawx XTD, but heelbox didn't feel good with my foot.

  17. #192
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    voting in seattle
    Posts
    4,034
    Quote Originally Posted by wren View Post
    I've always thought I had a fairly high instep (i barely tighten the lower two buckles) and thought my cochise 120s (2nd year, like '13 or '14 model?) had lots of room. Just picked up my ZGTPs and thought that while there was less room in the instep, they still felt good. Toebox felt great for me and this is prior to a heatmold. Still need to put my superfeet insoles in and then fine-tune but I'm excited. After however many days in the old cochises, even with powerwraps, the ZGTP also felt stiffer, but that was just a flex test.

    Was excited about the Hawx XTD, but heelbox didn't feel good with my foot.
    Are you skiing again?

  18. #193
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,106
    Don't call it a comeback, I never left. Having a kid just slowed things down a little (or a lot, only 6 days). This winter should be better.

    edit, so this post isn't useless, weights below for my 26.5s (L/R boots respectively)

    26.5mm | 303mm BSL
    Shells | 1,121g | 1,119g
    Liners | 207g | 205g
    Footbeds | 30g | 31g
    Total | 1,358g | 1,354g
    --
    Laces 15g (both boots)
    Spoilers | 16g | 16g

    I believe the advertised weight was 1,315g (or measured weight for the prototypes) but the liners have been beefed up. Personally I'm saving over 500g per boot over my old 12/13 cochises so I'm a very happy guy.





    Last edited by wren; 10-24-2018 at 12:53 AM. Reason: detailed weights and photos

  19. #194
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    108
    I use those small spoilers for shin relief, intended purpose in my book since they are to small, and I love it but adjusted the forward lean I put a bigger spoiler in the back as well.

  20. #195
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    58

    Agreement

    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Current Cochise and Zero G use the same 99mm last. If they fit differently it is because of the liner; if anything my Zero G Guide Pros are roomier than the Cochise 120/130 because of a thinner and lighter liner.
    This is exactly what I have found as well. I own both and the Zero G feels a little different because of the liner. I have just the smallest wiggle room in the forefoot because of the liner. Heel and ankle hold feels the same before I have cooked the liner.

  21. #196
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    ID
    Posts
    709
    Anyone have BSL for the 30.5? Evo doesn't go up that high.

  22. #197
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    17,694
    Side by side Tour Pro and 130 XTD:

    *The boots are EXTREMELY similar.
    *Technica was tad stiffer (like 5 flex points) in forward flex with room temp carpet flexing.
    *Atomic had a slightly lower instep and maybe lower volume in the ankle.
    *Technica has a smoother long stride whereas the Atomic wants to pull the shell apart over the forefoot in a long forward stride. For normal strides they are indistinguishable inside with great ROM, comparable to Vulcans.
    *Atomic booster strap is wider while the Technica is much easier to cinch as desired/tighter.

    I ended up with the Tour Pro and the wife ended up with the 130 XTD
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  23. #198
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Golden
    Posts
    6,318
    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Anyone have BSL for the 30.5? Evo doesn't go up that high.
    Should be 343. 29.5s are 333 I believe.
    Drive slow, homie.

  24. #199
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    ID
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by Z View Post
    Should be 343. 29.5s are 333 I believe.
    Thanks. Looks SkimoCo has 343 too.

  25. #200
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    4,575
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    That's a great comparison; thank you! I like the idea of a tighter fit around the cuff and calf, so the Hawx is on my short list when I need to replace my Vulcans.

    Here's to hoping the Hoji boot comes out with a carbon cuff in a 130 flex to compete. I love an instep buckle for heel hold while touring, but Dynafit needs to step up their game to compete with these awesome new "130-flex" options in the 1300-1400g range.
    Having gone from the Mercury to Hawx XTD Id second that. The Hawx fits/skis much better for me (narrow feet, low instep) but the Mercury was still a little more comfortable while skinning and had a slightly longer feeling stride just because the instep buckle could remain closed without constricting the range. The Hawx gets a lot of its tight fit from the lower shell which is still very tight around the heel when you are in walk mode. I also preferred the more rockered sole on the Mercury for walking.

    That said, the Hawx is amazing and all around a much better boot. Slightly lighter as well. There is still a little room to push things even further by melding extremely precise fit, stiffness and skiability with dedicated touring features and yet more comfortable/efficient walk modes.

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