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  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Toured in -20. Found temperature limit of OE Tecnica liners. Brrrr
    Interesting. C or F?

  2. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Interesting. C or F?
    Guessing F. -20c is not that cold.

  3. #478
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Guessing F. -20c is not that cold.
    Pardon. SI not freedom units.

    -20 C isn't that cold. There's windchill for sure but my feet aren't exposed to wind. Got ProTours I can use for colder days in any event.

    The ZGTP liners are lower volume and take up way less space than my 200 day old MV ProTours. I loosen up buckles quite a bit to get the equivalent tightness on Intuitions vs ZGTp

  4. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Pardon. SI not freedom units.

    -20 C isn't that cold. There's windchill for sure but my feet aren't exposed to wind. Got ProTours I can use for colder days in any event.

    The ZGTP liners are lower volume and take up way less space than my 200 day old MV ProTours. I loosen up buckles quite a bit to get the equivalent tightness on Intuitions vs ZGTp
    Why not just run the ProTours all the time? Weight? Too warm for most days?

  5. #480
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    Nov 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Pardon. SI not freedom units.

    -20 C isn't that cold. There's windchill for sure but my feet aren't exposed to wind. Got ProTours I can use for colder days in any event.

    The ZGTP liners are lower volume and take up way less space than my 200 day old MV ProTours. I loosen up buckles quite a bit to get the equivalent tightness on Intuitions vs ZGTp
    ehm, that's "been to the moon units" to you

    I wonder what sort of temps Hilary and Jim hit on Lhotse considering they ran the boots stock. The ability of your appendages to tolerate cold has a massive amount to do with how warm your core is.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  6. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    ehm, that's "been to the moon units" to you

    I wonder what sort of temps Hilary and Jim hit on Lhotse considering they ran the boots stock. The ability of your appendages to tolerate cold has a massive amount to do with how warm your core is.
    Did she run heated socks? I know she used the stock liners. Crazy.

  7. #482
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    I seem to remember from an interview they used heating, extra batteries and all

  8. #483
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    Hmmm. Forgot to mention cos I didnt remember that my liners are ultra low volume protos so are approx 200g.

    My Intuitions were from another boot so werent cooked for the ZGTP. I usually run warm so was surprised to get screaming barfie toes from the stock liners run at a mere -20c

  9. #484
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    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Hmmm. Forgot to mention cos I didnt remember that my liners are ultra low volume protos so are approx 200g.

    My Intuitions were from another boot so werent cooked for the ZGTP. I usually run warm so was surprised to get screaming barfie toes from the stock liners run at a mere -20c
    Pro tech tip for temps colder than minus 19.5C for non Intuition liner setups: Dip feet in melted butter, then wrap feet with thick cut bacon, then insert feet in liners/boots. No risk of attracting Grizzlies, they're hibernating... and wolverines are terrified of snow saw wielding ski tourers.
    Master of mediocrity.

  10. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    I have Intuition Tour Wraps also. Used a few times but so far they're inbounds only as they're almost too stiff
    Too stiff? I have them too and I'd have called them not stiff. Interesting

  11. #486
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    I put about 5 days on my ZGPTs and had to bail. The stiffness coupled with the upright stance was just too much, killed all sensitivity of the ski/snow surface, eliminated my balance and tossed me in the backseat incessantly. Which is a shame. Fit great, light as a feather, excellent ROM. Moved on to Hawx120xtd, which I am very optimistic about set to their most forward lean setting. Def not quite the free/frictionless ROM feeling of the ZGTP, but after losing the bottom buckle and putting in a ProTour I have those things at 1400g. Only about 200g above my beefed up TLT6p.

    On another note for people here wanting ZGTPs, I have a Tecnica friend who has some 28.5 ZGTPs and Scouts he will be selling soon, new. Not on GS yet cause he still has them, but if you are looking to buy some in that size let me know.

  12. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerjake View Post
    I put about 5 days on my ZGPTs and had to bail. The stiffness coupled with the upright stance was just too much, killed all sensitivity of the ski/snow surface, eliminated my balance and tossed me in the backseat incessantly. Which is a shame. Fit great, light as a feather, excellent ROM. Moved on to Hawx120xtd, which I am very optimistic about set to their most forward lean setting. Def not quite the free/frictionless ROM feeling of the ZGTP, but after losing the bottom buckle and putting in a ProTour I have those things at 1400g. Only about 200g above my beefed up TLT6p.

    On another note for people here wanting ZGTPs, I have a Tecnica friend who has some 28.5 ZGTPs and Scouts he will be selling soon, new. Not on GS yet cause he still has them, but if you are looking to buy some in that size let me know.
    You couldn't mitigate the uprightness with binding ramp?

  13. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    You couldn't mitigate the uprightness with binding ramp?
    Not worth it for me. I mean, talk about 1st world problems, but I was running this on Speed rad/Plum guide combo on a Vwerks Katana. I am not a big fellow (5'9 170), so I prob could stand to have had the PU upper on the Scout (which I would actually wholeheartedly recommend as I find that carbon/gril upper to be uberstiff and not at all progressive unless you have serious mass especially considering the forward lean). But switching things up is not a huge deal for me, I find the Hawx fit to be absolutely no worse for me than the ZGTP- in fact I like the heel pocket a little more, has a bit more width volume in there, which is good for me having an overall narrow/low volume foot, but a bit of a higher volume heel.

    I'll also note that I have a very mobile and flexible ankle, so I was iffy on the ZGTP originally. I was hoping that the flipped female piece and the spoiler would get me into a good enough spot, but really that female piece does just about dick. And the spoiler, while a little help, just wasn't enough. I think the ZGTP is an amazing touring boot option for those who have limited dorsiflexion, but if you derive your skiing balance from lots of dorsiflexion/ROM it is a big risk to run the ZGTP considering it's stiffness.

    On top of all this, I want to be dead set on my next boot of this type, as I plan to send it back out to Bormio in the summer to get adapted for my Trab TR2 bindings, which is still my favorite "ski at the resort a fair amount" tech binding.

    Taking all that into consideration I don't feel like fucking with binding stuff that has never been a problem for me previously.

  14. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerjake View Post
    Not worth it for me. I mean, talk about 1st world problems, but I was running this on Speed rad/Plum guide combo on a Vwerks Katana. I am not a big fellow (5'9 170), so I prob could stand to have had the PU upper on the Scout (which I would actually wholeheartedly recommend as I find that carbon/gril upper to be uberstiff and not at all progressive unless you have serious mass especially considering the forward lean). But switching things up is not a huge deal for me, I find the Hawx fit to be absolutely no worse for me than the ZGTP- in fact I like the heel pocket a little more, has a bit more width volume in there, which is good for me having an overall narrow/low volume foot, but a bit of a higher volume heel.

    I'll also note that I have a very mobile and flexible ankle, so I was iffy on the ZGTP originally. I was hoping that the flipped female piece and the spoiler would get me into a good enough spot, but really that female piece does just about dick. And the spoiler, while a little help, just wasn't enough. I think the ZGTP is an amazing touring boot option for those who have limited dorsiflexion, but if you derive your skiing balance from lots of dorsiflexion/ROM it is a big risk to run the ZGTP considering it's stiffness.

    On top of all this, I want to be dead set on my next boot of this type, as I plan to send it back out to Bormio in the summer to get adapted for my Trab TR2 bindings, which is still my favorite "ski at the resort a fair amount" tech binding.

    Taking all that into consideration I don't feel like fucking with binding stuff that has never been a problem for me previously.
    For real, I can't understand who is buying the ZGTP in the 22-23 shell sizes. Unless you got some female Super G skiers wanting to run a course on some touring boots.

  15. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerjake View Post
    I put about 5 days on my ZGPTs and had to bail. The stiffness coupled with the upright stance was just too much, killed all sensitivity of the ski/snow surface, eliminated my balance and tossed me in the backseat incessantly.
    FWIW: Had the exact same issue with the Solly Mtn Labs. The much touted 'progressive flex' felt like a brick wall to me. Had a modicum of success in making the boot about 20 percent more great again by adding heel lifts and a rear cuff spoiler. Combined with higher ramp dynafit vertical st's, the boot skied okay for consistent surfaces but in bumpy terrain or crud, I couldn't activate enough ankle flex to absorb terrain features and got tossed around.

    IME, imo...people with lower volume lower legs just can't active forward flex as effectively as skiers with thicker tibs and bull calves. Did an a/b carpet test comparison with my 130ish flex garmont deliriums. I have the low volume lower legs, buddy who is 20 pounds lighter had more volume with this tibs/bull calves. I could flex the boot nicely but buddy could blow right through the flex...way too soft for him.

    Anecdotal subjective data points.
    Master of mediocrity.

  16. #491
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerjake View Post
    I put about 5 days on my ZGPTs and had to bail. The stiffness coupled with the upright stance was just too much, killed all sensitivity of the ski/snow surface, eliminated my balance and tossed me in the backseat incessantly. Which is a shame. Fit great, light as a feather, excellent ROM. Moved on to Hawx120xtd, which I am very optimistic about set to their most forward lean setting. Def not quite the free/frictionless ROM feeling of the ZGTP, but after losing the bottom buckle and putting in a ProTour I have those things at 1400g. Only about 200g above my beefed up TLT6p.
    I had similar feelings, but I'm probably not as picky about it as you - I could ski OK in them out of the box. I toned down the flex by removing the power strap completely, flipped the chip to the 13 degree position, and used the Tecnica-supplied shim to get to about 14 degrees. They aren't quite as dialed as my Hawx Ultra 130 XTD's, but darn close and the ROM is better in tour mode. 1325 grams with my posted thin footbeds in place vs 1408 grams for the Hawx (also without power strap).

  17. #492
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    Oct 2003
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    I feel like I'm less in the backseat with the ZGTPs than I was with my other AT boots.
    eta using the shim, haven't flipped the chip
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  18. #493
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    Dec 2007
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    I had back seat issues with my zero g's. Flipping the chip for more forward lean wasn't enough. Stock spoiler and a heel shim under the footbed took care of me. Now they feel normal.

  19. #494
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    Yeah, I think there was definitely more I could have done to make the ZGTPs work. I also think I could have got the Scout for how hard I am pushing things and my size and it wouldn't have hurt me. Getting into heel lifts concerned me since I was already at or near the edge in terms of making the instep volume work.

    And for the record I am insanely picky about ski stuff, and even more so about boot stuff. I still have never found a boot that fits me as well and treats me as nice for most touring as the TLT5/6p. But they could never control my Vwerks skis- BMTs/Vapor nanos were fine. Thus the hunt into this stronger category. For me, I have a relatively short tib/fib. So short cuffed boots with my ankle ROM were real beneficial for me. Another aspect of the ZGTP that just didn't work optimally in my case. Hawx looks ever so slightly shorter in the cuff, but feels a lot shorter with the lean.

  20. #495
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    Nov 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by smooth operator View Post
    I seem to remember from an interview they used heating, extra batteries and all
    Oh yeah, forgot about that

    Hey LeeLau, since you are connected at the hip with Intuition which of their liners would you say has the same volume as the stock liner?
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  21. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    I had similar feelings, but I'm probably not as picky about it as you - I could ski OK in them out of the box. I toned down the flex by removing the power strap completely, flipped the chip to the 13 degree position, and used the Tecnica-supplied shim to get to about 14 degrees.
    I removed the power straps too and not only can I ski them better, but they are less fidgety in transitions (both at the bottom and top). I haven't shimmed them or flipped the chip but I have a lot of ramp in my bindings. Certainly confusing given the nearly endless permutations available in mods.

  22. #497
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    Jun 2004
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    Pemberton, BC
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    2,228
    The more I ski these boots, the more I like them. Light and tour like a dream. I like how clean the buckles fold away when in touring mode, compared to the pants always up rats nest of mercuries.

    I flipped the chip and use the spoiler. I wouldn’t might a little more forward lean. I like the strap. I cinch it up high so it only contacts liner. This makes the cuff height feel a little higher.

    Just in case you think lee’s toe was an outlier, I was on the same skin track on the same cold AF day. I have the stock liners and my foot was frozen solid.

    I’m thinking of upgrading the liner to a taller low volume intuition. For better cold weather performance and a taller cuff feel.

  23. #498
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    Too stiff? I have them too and I'd have called them not stiff. Interesting
    You're big-boned American and therefore are bigger than my 160lbs 78kgs

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    Hey LeeLau, since you are connected at the hip with Intuition which of their liners would you say has the same volume as the stock liner?
    Definitely get a low volume ProTour or TourWrap. I tried a medium volume and it takes up too much space. I'm running a packed - out older MV ProTour for colder days right now and that seems to work but now I need toe-punches as my stupid wide fungal sixth toe is pinching

    Quote Originally Posted by xyz View Post
    I flipped the chip and use the spoiler. I wouldn’t might a little more forward lean. I like the strap. I cinch it up high so it only contacts liner. This makes the cuff height feel a little higher.

    I’m thinking of upgrading the liner to a taller low volume intuition. For better cold weather performance and a taller cuff feel.
    Btw - I skied the ZGTPs with chip set at 13 deg and stock spoiler on my very neutral ramp Marker Alpinists and Vipecs and they feel balanced for me. I ski the ZGTPs without stock spoiler on my pitched forward Comforts which have lots of built in ramp and they also feel balanced for me. Perhaps I'm less sensitive and the approx 1 degree of stock spoiler extra forward lean is enough for the adjustment.

    See above re what Intuition to get for more warmth

  24. #499
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    Feb 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    IME, imo...people with lower volume lower legs just can't active forward flex as effectively as skiers with thicker tibs and bull calves.
    You have to stuff a lot of foam into the right places in the liner. Stock liners assume your lower leg is a pipe roughly the thickness of your ankle and symmetrical side to side, which no one is.

    I've got my MTN Labs skiing beautifully now but people would lose their minds if they saw what I've stuffed in there.

    I should be a bootfitter.

  25. #500
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    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spats View Post
    You have to stuff a lot of foam into the right places in the liner. Stock liners assume your lower leg is a pipe roughly the thickness of your ankle and symmetrical side to side, which no one is.

    I've got my MTN Labs skiing beautifully now but people would lose their minds if they saw what I've stuffed in there.

    I should be a bootfitter.
    pics?

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