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Thread: Ikon Pass

  1. #3126
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    Ikon Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Your whole argument just contradicted the last part.

    The Ikon pass et al allow people to ski at their local hill AND ski other destinations while limiting the lift ticket end of the high expense of skiing.

    We went to Aspen for 4 days / 3 nights. Spent $700 on lodging and nothing on tickets.

    Otherwise itíd be 4 x 4 x 150 = $2400 + lodging.

    Ikon is doing the exact opposite of your self contradicted argument that itís mating skiing expensive.


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    Honestly donít know what your point is.

    Are you suggesting that people who want to try out the sport for their first time to buy season passes and uses them at Aspen?

    I was talking about people who are not yet ready to dive in with a family purchase of passes.

    The family I mentioned above are likely to buy a pass next year, but at this point they are still only getting up 2-3 times per year.

    And like I said, they have money and can afford this. Iíve got plenty of friends who look at the cost of skiing and just say no way. Not worth them taking the chance that their kids will hate it and spend all that money.

    Big hills cost a lot to run. Small hills are disappearing. Or being bought by mega corps.

    Vail bought KW 8 years ago. Season passes are up 65%. Day tickets are up 80%. Ski lessons are up 110%. Food is up 75%. Pretty sure we have not seen inflation like that in any other sector.

    KW used to offer a first time beginner package of beginner lift, rentals and all day lesson for $60. And they had a pass and/or day ticket for the lower mountain lifts that was discounted as well. They also offered 5 and 10 packs of lessons at a discount. Those are all gone.

  2. #3127
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    $13 fridays at McCauley..... skiing doesn’t have to be expensive.


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  3. #3128
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    I don't hear any North Tahoe skiers complaining that high daily lift prices are driving people away.
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  4. #3129
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c View Post
    $13 fridays at McCauley..... skiing doesnít have to be expensive.


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    Utica Club Baby!! Love to see it!

  5. #3130
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I don't hear any North Tahoe skiers complaining that high daily lift prices are driving people away.
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    I've heard plenty of old time Squaw loyalists say they wish for a return to $1800 (or whatever they were) season pass prices. Would that line still look like that then?
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  6. #3131
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    ^^^^was that this past Friday? Geez.

  7. #3132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp View Post
    Is it crazy to think that plenty of people who pay walk up rates do so grudgingly because they like the sport just enough to do it a few days a year but not enough to convince themselves to drop $600+ for benefits/savings almost a year in the future? I feel like even those who can afford it are going to end up skiing less simply because of the cumulative cost.

    I find it a little baffling that people get mad at people who buy these passes unless they just don't want people on the east coast/south ever skiing. How tf else do they ever expect people who don't live right next to an amazing mountain to enjoy the sport with any frequency?
    I don't have any problem with people buying these passes. Hell I wish I could travel to take advantage of them more. My concern is more about excess consolidation making the ski lift business less durable over time.

    From what I've seen in the last decade season prices have gone down while day tickets have gone up at a rate that doesn't match. It doesn't really change my budget, I get a pass and use it then travel a little bit. But I used to have 5-10 friends who would go ski 1-5 times a year, sometimes at night at a discount, sometimes in the spring, but they wouldn't really consider themselves skiers. And they never bought passes. It's been a while since I've ridden chairs with any of them, day tickets got expensive. To me that's a bit concerning though I don't have any good solutions. I know it's an expensive sport and I'm lucky I got into it



    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    If you're so "concerned" about the future, you should save that energy in your brain for many other things than the ski industry.

    And, "old folks" built this industry and sustain it. It may very well nearly die in ten to twenty years when the Boomers pass, much like the currently bubbled real estate industry. Show some respect for your elders, son.

    And, your analysis of the death of magazines is way the fuck off. Quite simply, the internet, and before that, cable TV killed that industry, not cheap subscriptions. That's where all the advertising revenue went.
    Hey I'm here for the hedonism too, skiing is fun.

    You're mostly right about the magazines but I was trying to push your buttons. Got dutch ovened by the dog and couldn't go back to sleep. Might as well share some misery.

  8. #3133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Your whole argument just contradicted the last part.

    The Ikon pass et al allow people to ski at their local hill AND ski other destinations while limiting the lift ticket end of the high expense of skiing.

    We went to Aspen for 4 days / 3 nights. Spent $700 on lodging and nothing on tickets.

    Otherwise itíd be 4 x 4 x 150 = $2400 + lodging.

    Ikon is doing the exact opposite of your self contradicted argument that itís mating skiing expensive.


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    of course you and benny love the ikon pass, because it's an all-you-can-ski-buffet. it's making it unsustainably cheap for long-time skiers like you--that doesn't mean it's cheap for a 35yo dad to try and figure out how to take his family on their first ski trip. megapasses are obviously not the only thing to blame for that, but it's not too hard to see the point people are making.

    Separately, just because megapass worked for vail and works well for you, that doesn't mean it's good for all resorts. since wealthy people are being converted from spending $120/day on lift passes to spending $600 on a megapass that nets individual resorts far less per skier day, the resorts make up for cannibalization by bumping average window rates to $165+ and limiting availability of other ticket deals. JHMR wanted to boost January travel a few years ago, so they used to have a deal where any season passholder could get 50% off window rate for most of January, and my understanding is that they still made more money per skier day doing stuff like that than they get from Ikon passholders. that deal also gave passholders an incentive to come during a time when the resort could handle more crowds, versus everybody from denver driving up all at once in February. that deal is gone now.

    dealing with Alterra is a net negative for premier independent resorts like Alta/Snowbird and JHMR. they're encouraging wealthy people who would gladly pay $140/day to give them pennies on the dollar, and they're not making up for it with ancillary revenue, while they have serious complaints from long-time customers about a diminished skiing experience. that's unsustainable too. those resorts were not getting "steamrolled" by vail. now, they're getting steamrolled by people who can't believe their luck, that someone just gave away their product for free.

  9. #3134
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    Can we get confirmation that picture is from a weekend? Hope it's not actually a wednesday

  10. #3135
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    Remember the model this is based on - it's very similar to health clubs. The majority of the folks never use the club enough to really take advantage of the monthly dues. They pay their dues to feel healthier. People pay for passes because then they are a skier/snowboarder.

    I recently saw an article from back in the day wherein they said the average passholder at a particular mountain was skiing around 46 days per year. The Ikon pass isn't designed for them. Doug Fish, the marketer behind the Indy Pass, said in an article in Ski Magazine last year that the average NON-passholder these days skis 4.6 times per year. That's who these passes are designed to capture. They get a pass, now maybe they ski 6-8 days, and everybody wins.

    Sure, some people use the hell out of the pass (probably most of the people on these forums) but the vast majority of them do not. Those are the folks that make the pass work. It's a numbers game.

    Familiarity Bias. We all think that skiers are like us. They are not. And that is why this model works.

  11. #3136
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesterSmoove View Post
    <snip> JHMR wanted to boost January travel a few years ago, so they used to have a deal where any season passholder could get 50% off window rate for most of January, and my understanding is that they still made more money per skier day doing stuff like that than they get from Ikon passholders. that deal also gave passholders an incentive to come during a time when the resort could handle more crowds, versus everybody from denver driving up all at once in February. that deal is gone now.
    Nope... not gone - just changed: https://www.jacksonhole.com/golden-ticket.html

  12. #3137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp View Post
    Can we get confirmation that picture is from a weekend? Hope it's not actually a wednesday
    It doesn't matter... we've absolutely had that at Squaw on weekdays after a big storm.

  13. #3138
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    I look at it like the boiling frog analogy. The corporate over lords will slowly and steadily jack the prices up. You won't really notice it much at first. Then one day you will look back and comment that you used to get the Vail/Ikon/MC passes for $650-$800. Now you are paying $2k, but hey, at least you aren't paying $250 for a walk up pass at the window! But by then the boomers will be dead or so broken and busted with artificial hips/shoulders/knees etc. that they no longer ski, and just maybe the slopes won't be as crowded?

    But I hear there won't be winter in 20 years, so there's that...
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  14. #3139
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    I've heard plenty of old time Squaw loyalists say they wish for a return to $1800 (or whatever they were) season pass prices. Would that line still look like that then?
    Count me on that list. I bitched for years about Alex keeping his pass prices high and not shifting the model to lower cost passes. I eat my words everytime I see the KT line on a Pow day. Skiing has always been an elitist sport, but the ďcheapĒ passes have made it even worse. There are lots of people that want to go skiing on whim that donít now because of day ticket prices or show up, get surprised and never come back. Very few non regulars realize how much Squaw charges per day now. If my family didnít already ski, I doubt Iíd get them started now and I have discouraged a couple of friends because of the cost already

  15. #3140
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_flying_v View Post
    Anyone know if these passes are going back on sale?

    Iím going West for work in March-ish and want to go skiing as well.
    they are done for the season.

  16. #3141
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    Ikon raised day ticket prices???

    LOL

    What a slew of dolts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  17. #3142
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    There are lots of people that want to go skiing on whim that don’t now because of day ticket prices or show up, get surprised and never come back. Very few non regulars realize how much Squaw charges per day now. If my family didn’t already ski, I doubt I’d get them started now and I have discouraged a couple of friends because of the cost already
    Not going to lie...finding out how largely useless the ski with a friend Ikon tickets are has also left a bad taste in my mouth. Since they only gave us 8 of them a year, I figured they'd be worth a decent discount but it's really only useful for day of walkups that will actually ski all day. The price I get for a friend isn't even any cheaper than what they can get buying the tickets 10 days in advance. Dropping $160+ for relatively casual skier friend to go skiing for 3-4 hours can leave you a little salty.

  18. #3143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Your whole argument just contradicted the last part.

    The Ikon pass et al allow people to ski at their local hill AND ski other destinations while limiting the lift ticket end of the high expense of skiing.

    We went to Aspen for 4 days / 3 nights. Spent $700 on lodging and nothing on tickets.

    Otherwise it’d be 4 x 4 x 150 = $2400 + lodging.

    Ikon is doing the exact opposite of your self contradicted argument that it’s mating skiing expensive.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    And your argument requires a family of 4 to put out at least 2600 bucks on passes.

    You literally just illustrated his point. Your trip to Aspen still required a minimum spend of 3300 bucks (think cash flow), and you haven't even fed yourself.

    That is not cheap.
    Live Free or Die

  19. #3144
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    And your argument requires a family of 4 to put out at least 2600 bucks on passes.

    You literally just illustrated his point. Your trip to Aspen still required a minimum spend of 3300 bucks (think cash flow), and you haven't even fed yourself.

    That is not cheap.
    But itís a fuckload cheaper than daytickets Einstein.

    If get 40 days in then my cost/day is $15

    If you get 40 days at $150 thatís $6000

    A fucking order of magnitude higher.

    If you want to bitch about high ticket and other costs as barrier to entry into skiing, then go for it. But it has 0 to do with the Ikon.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    But itís a fuckload cheaper than daytickets Einstein.

    If get 40 days in then my cost/day is $15

    If you get 40 days at $150 thatís $6000

    A fucking order of magnitude higher.

    If you want to bitch about high ticket and other costs as barrier to entry into skiing, then go for it. But it has 0 to do with the Ikon.


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    TWO orders of magnitude actually

  21. #3146
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    What beginner skis 40 days?

    The average person who "skis" isn't buying a pass and isn't skiing more than a handful of times. They are increasing day ticket rates to compensate for giving away the farm on passes. It is turning away the casual skier, beginners, and families that aren't wealthy. At some point that chicken is going to come home to roost and it is a direct result of Ikon. There is a breakeven number per skier day a resort needs to make, and when Ikon gives away the season pass farm, it needs to be made up elsewhere. That elsewhere is day tickets, rentals, ski school etc and completely drives away everyone but a pass holder.

    Question, how did you start skiing? I bet you didn't buy a pass, and I bet you didn't go to fucking Vail on day 1, and I bet you rented equipment. Ikon is killing independents, and is killing any sense of affordability for the lifeblood of the sport, aka never evers.
    Live Free or Die

  22. #3147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    But it’s a fuckload cheaper than daytickets Einstein.

    If get 40 days in then my cost/day is $15

    If you get 40 days at $150 that’s $6000

    A fucking order of magnitude higher.

    If you want to bitch about high ticket and other costs as barrier to entry into skiing, then go for it. But it has 0 to do with the Ikon.


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    This only seems like a fair comparison if you live in a vacuum, where the decision to buy a daily lift ticket or an Ikon pass can be made at a similar moment in time. For the majority of casual skiers who are unwilling to commit $600 (and this is the lowest price available) almost a year in advance of a vacation, it certainly raises the daily cost of lift tickets for them.

    Personally I love empty mountains but I do get a little scared that a sport I love so much finds it so hard to attract new people because of the price and seems to be actively making it harder and harder to lure new participants.

  23. #3148
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    What beginner skis 40 days?

    The average person who "skis" isn't buying a pass and isn't skiing more than a handful of times. They are increasing day ticket rates to compensate for giving away the farm on passes. It is turning away the casual skier, beginners, and families that aren't wealthy. At some point that chicken is going to come home to roost and it is a direct result of Ikon. There is a breakeven number per skier day a resort needs to make, and when Ikon gives away the season pass farm, it needs to be made up elsewhere. That elsewhere is day tickets, rentals, ski school etc and completely drives away everyone but a pass holder.

    Question, how did you start skiing? I bet you didn't buy a pass, and I bet you didn't go to fucking Vail on day 1, and I bet you rented equipment. Ikon is killing independents, and is killing any sense of affordability for the lifeblood of the sport, aka never evers.
    All very true. Basically it is a cannibalization of the future.
    Ooof!

  24. #3149
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    As a local single mountain passholder, it's clear that Ikon and Epic ARE killing the casual skiier and yeah, it's really bad for the sport in the long run.

    That said, if I was an east coast skiier, yeah I'd buy one, because they are fucking giving it away ​pretty much.

  25. #3150
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    Provide evidence that the high price of daily lift tickets has anything to do with Ikon passes.

    Go ahead, please

    But you wonít because tryout just reaching in the dark for something, ANYTHING, to blame on Ikon.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

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