Ikon Pass

**boardtodeath** · 03-19-2019, 10:56 AM

Seconded, and I've been saying it for years. What is the point of a company that only looks to the next quarter or fiscal year? That sort of mindset will eventually drive the company into the ground because it breeds shortsighted decision making.

**TahoeJ** · 03-19-2019, 11:42 AM

Nailed it. We should have seen it coming when Wall Street came out in 1987 and all of these young banker assholes idolized the film's villain and completely missed the point.

The movie Boiler Room was spot on...

**Bunion 2020** · 03-19-2019, 02:32 PM

Because people who travel distances to ski do so regardless of snow conditions (or, rather, snow conditions are far from the only factor). If you have to make plane reservations or otherwise block out a lot of time for a long drive, you often do so well ahead of time. Ikon passholders will still represent an influx of cash (to the resort and to the economy) that otherwise would not be there.

I have to call bullshit on that. Most of the IKON passholders I have chatted with made their decisions based upon conditions and have a flexible lifestyle that allows them the freedom to go where they want and when they want.

Factor in that today our seasons pass prices were rolled out. About a 14% increase IF you buy early season, up to $1492 from $ 1337 last season. No IKON consideration and if I want to ski MC areas I can do so at 50% discount, big fucking deal.

My response will be to buy the Mon.-Thursday pass and a full IKON pass. I also have that flexibility and the home mountain will just have to make less off of me than they already do.

**PNWbrit** · 03-19-2019, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

Well, the hotel owners make more money, need to hire more staff, so more folks in the community have more money and are more likely to continue to buy season passes and might just buy food on the hill. It may be hard for a dirt bag local to see, but it pumps a good amount more money into the local economy and they still get something from IKON when you use your days there.

My concern with Epic/Ikon is the increased air travel that a passholder might use to get to all the resorts. Air travel is a huge contributor to climate change. Like that dude who thinks the crappy food at US Resorts is good, he traveled to a bunch of different resorts to get his pass price down to $51.xx (btw, love the exact calculation, minus travel and lodging) and added a bunch more CO2 to the atmosphere and drives the end of winter.

When VR bought KW, I stuck with the KW Only pass as we don’t travel for a bunch of reasons. If I buy an IKON to ski Mammy this spring, then my son and I will be tempted to travel at least once next winter. But doubt we actually will. If we do, probably will be Aspen as they seem like they do not have the shit show that JH and BS endured this season. And Aspen looks rad.

You should at least get some days at Mammy this spring. Not too far of a drive and once the base of KT is gone, Main Base at Mammy will still be going strong.

Skiers form such a tiny fraction of global air traffic that it's probably not worth worrying about ikon/epic worsening it.

**Danno** · 03-19-2019, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Not bunion

I have to call bullshit on that. Most of the IKON passholders I have chatted with made their decisions based upon conditions and have a flexible lifestyle that allows them the freedom to go where they want and when they want.

Cmon, man, we can play the anecdote game all day. I have friends that went to BS this winter (including 2 mags) and their lives as parents and professionals and the need to buy plane tix meant they planned the trip months in advance.

No doubt some people plan last minute trips based on conditions, just like visitation is also surely up from regular pass holders because conditions are good. But the whole thing that Ikon is selling -- go skiing around the country -- usually requires advance reservations for many many people. I mean, FFS man, I was looking at lodging at BS (back when I thought I might join my friends) and that was in October, and many things were already reserved for a random February weekend (and of course lots was still available). But sure, all the Ikon people were last minute folks, those reservations were all from other people.

**Bunion 2020** · 03-19-2019, 02:49 PM

But sure, all the Ikon people were last minute folks, those reservations were all from other people.

I am telling you what I am seeing, you are replying with what you think I am seeing.

Fair enough, thank you for your opinion.

**Ottime** · 03-19-2019, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Skiers form such a tiny fraction of global air traffic that it's probably not worth worrying about ikon/epic worsening it.

It’s the mindset that my small contributions mean nothing that is driving us off the cliff. But keep on justifying it if it makes you feel better.

We use air travel, but I’m not going to deny my contributions to climate change by calling them insignificant.

If you change from skiing locally to skiing at several different destinations across the west, that is a net increase. A net increase is a net increase.

**Danno** · 03-19-2019, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Not bunion

I am telling you what I am seeing, you are replying with what you think I am seeing.

.

No, I am replying with my own anecdotal experience, with what I have seen. I never once questioned your conversations, I merely questioned your conclusions based on your anecdotal experience. That is a significantly different thing.

ETA: I don't know BS or what you ski there, but is it possible that you're skiing all the expert lifts, and not having discussions, or as many discussions, with people riding beginner lifts? Because I am guessing that the more expert the skier, the more likely to storm chase.

**Benny Profane** · 03-19-2019, 02:58 PM

I travelled last year armed with Epic and Ikon chasing conditions. By car.

**PNWbrit** · 03-19-2019, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

It’s the mindset that my small contributions mean nothing that is driving us off the cliff. But keep on justifying it if it makes you feel better.

We use air travel, but I’m not going to deny my contributions to climate change by calling them insignificant.

If you change from skiing locally to skiing at several different destinations across the west, that is a net increase. A net increase is a net increase.

Global air travel is around 4bn passengers annually.

Ikonic air travel isn't pushing anything off a cliff.

**Danno** · 03-19-2019, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Global air travel is around 4bn passengers annually.

Ikonic air travel isn't pushing anything off a cliff.

I wouldn't bother recycling either. Or buying a fuel efficient car. Or taking any actions to reduce your environmental impact. I mean, you're just one guy after all, your impact is negligible. Live a little, fuck the planet, I say.

**Bunion 2020** · 03-19-2019, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

No, I am replying with my own anecdotal experience, with what I have seen. I never once questioned your conversations, I merely questioned your conclusions based on your anecdotal experience. That is a significantly different thing.

ETA: I don't know BS or what you ski there, but is it possible that you're skiing all the expert lifts, and not having discussions, or as many discussions, with people riding beginner lifts? Because I am guessing that the more expert the skier, the more likely to storm chase.

How do I get to those expert lifts?

By riding the other lifts (epiphany)..... Other than the Tram and Challenger/Headwaters all the other lifts serve a variety of terrain with a wide variety of people and skill levels.

And now you are getting it. I don't give a flying fuck if IKON pass holders ski beginner terrain, it IS the EXPERT terrain that is getting hammered and by the exact demographic you described.

This (IKON) is not going anyplace for at least another 2 years but that doesn't mean I have to like it, instead I will also become a part of the phenomena and chase storms.

**PNWbrit** · 03-19-2019, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I wouldn't bother recycling either. Or buying a fuel efficient car. Or taking any actions to reduce your environmental impact. I mean, you're just one guy after all, your impact is negligible. Live a little, fuck the planet, I say.

That is not what I said.

**skaredshtles** · 03-19-2019, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Not bunion

<snip>
This (IKON) is not going anyplace for at least another 2 years but that doesn't mean I have to like it, instead I will also become a part of the phenomena and chase storms.

Ironically, the route that you take is probably one that a lot of locals will choose - which will, to our Ikon overlords, be proof that it's working and people love it (even the BS locals!) and be likely to insure that Ikon continues after the initial contract expires.

**Ottime** · 03-19-2019, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

I wouldn't bother recycling either. Or buying a fuel efficient car. Or taking any actions to reduce your environmental impact. I mean, you're just one guy after all, your impact is negligible. Live a little, fuck the planet, I say.

I still let the water run while brushing my teeth, cause ya know, it ain’t nothing compared to commercial farming. Why bother. Fuck the kids.

**noper** · 03-19-2019, 05:12 PM

I went to big sky about a week ago. i planned that trip just over a year ago and bought my mountain collective pass for it. im currently planning a trip to canada next year and am weighing my options between mc/ikon/epic. im sure a lot of other east coast people are already doing the same.

**Core Shot** · 03-19-2019, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by noper

I went to big sky about a week ago. i planned that trip just over a year ago and bought my mountain collective pass for it. im currently planning a trip to canada next year and am weighing my options between mc/ikon/epic. im sure a lot of other east coast people are already doing the same.

If you ski enough days, ikon for sure
5 days each Kmart, sugarbush, loon, sugarloaf, Sunday river etc

**noper** · 03-19-2019, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

If you ski enough days, ikon for sure
5 days each Kmart, sugarbush, loon, sugarloaf, Sunday river etc

im in DC so getting to those resorts basically requires the same amount of energy unfortunately. still, you are probably right, if i can squeeze in two trips its worth it.

**muted** · 03-20-2019, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

Yes, I am saying they could negotiate. Because sometimes there are long term benefits to treating your customers well, vs trying to squeeze every dollar from them. And yes, it happens, businesses make the decision all the time to give things away that they could otherwise charge for, or make decisions that in the very short term mean less revenue. Because sometimes that is the wise long term business decision, to keep customers, to generate goodwill, etc. So yes, these non-Ikon resorts that are on the Ikon pass could negotiate some benefits for their passholders. And I suspect that will happen for some of them, if people complain enough.

We all know they could, IMO there's fat chance it'll happen.

**Bunion 2020** · 03-20-2019, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by muted

We all know they could, IMO there's fat chance it'll happen.

x2.

Our seasons pass price just increased $ 150.00 for next year and the benefit is we get 16 MC 1/2 offs and 8 additional chances to purchase a day pass at the home area for friends and family at the bargain rate of 88 dollars. Used to be able to purchase seasons pass with a couple hundred down and pay it off over the summer. No More.

**paulster2626** · 03-20-2019, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Not bunion

And now you are getting it. I don't give a flying fuck if IKON pass holders ski beginner terrain, it IS the EXPERT terrain that is getting hammered and by the exact demographic you described.

I'd argue its the fat powder skis that have more to do with this than simply an increased # of skiers. Back in my day we had to slay the pow with 200cm skinny sticks, and it took SKILL and PRACTICE, dammit! <shakes fist at cloud>

And the goddamn internet. There are no more secrets anymore. Used to be you had to have someone show you around, or at least describe terrain and how to find it in a bar or something. <shaking intensifies>

**Ski220** · 03-20-2019, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Not bunion

How so? If we have crappy snow and no IKON passholders bother to come and ski the rock strewn slopes then it will be the seasons pass holders who allow the (name here) resort to survive the winter.

From my observations at JH for the last couple of years snow conditions were a main factor in the number of Ikon users surging (although I have no hard data). Last year Colorado and Utah both experienced horrible snowpack. People flocked to JH in droves. For the consumer an Ikon or MC is great. For the resort it's a win also. If you can reduce your cost significantly then you may be willing to go somewhere that you maybe might not have gone.

**Ottime** · 03-20-2019, 09:36 AM

If it makes any of you feel better, my KW Only Pass is up 145% since Vail bought the place, while their Epic Pass is stagnant. Fuck these guys. No on hill improvements. Just higher prices. It seems like they intend to keep raising prices until everyone goes full Epic.

We will probably return next year, but sooner or later we will be priced out.

**skaredshtles** · 03-20-2019, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ottime

If it makes any of you feel better, my KW Only Pass is up 145% since Vail bought the place, while their Epic Pass is stagnant. Fuck these guys. No on hill improvements. Just higher prices. It seems like they intend to keep raising prices until everyone goes full Epic.

We will probably return next year, but sooner or later we will be priced out.

So it goes...