Ikon Pass

[lowsparkco]

Ha, love it.

As a middle-aged old fart I think of like participating in a flash mob. Makes me feel hip.

[Bunion 2020]

I'm sure it has been said repeatedly, I wrote it a few pages back.... if you're really interested in more of a deep dive into what drives ski area management and marketing read Downhill Slide.

Without huge capital investment by municipal or regional government i.e. Switzerland, the ability to recoup the infrastructure costs has traditionally only even partially succeeded by private entities by speculating on real estate. That's dependant on a strong and expanding market economy. Private equity is weary of ski areas for a reason, they largely have to bust two or three times before someone can scoop them up for pennies on the dollar to turn a profit.

It's amazing big privately owned ski areas even exist. Add climate change into the equation and many may not in 20 or 30 years.

Downhill slide is now a bit dated and the current Mega-pass trends seem to play out some of Clifford's predictions although not in the way he foresaw.

For example. Big Sky is wholly owned as a ski operation with little emphasis on RE development, mainly because due to their inept management Big Sky managed to trade away or sell much of the develop able land they had access to. Instead another player with even deeper pockets was able to acquire most of the land with development potential and then convince the ski area to buy the ski terrain. You know, the part that costs lots of money to operate with some risk on any eventual return.

Now in order to make that investment pay off the ski area really does need to sell lift access along with rental & F&B and other items like zip-lines and snow sports.

[lowsparkco]

Agree, Downhill Slide is dated, but it's just about the only reference. How it is playing out is a different story all together and not one that has been written.

Interesting information about Big Sky. I'm going for the first time later this season. I'll look at it through a different lens, thanks for posting.

[Bunion 2020]

Give a shout when you are in the hood, no matter what kind of pass you have.

[ChaseBrooklyn]

Seriously man? Big Sky is not having a great season and has seemed less crowded to me. I have switched lodging around between different days with ease more than once. Boyne lodging was completely booked? Did you try the Wilson?

Same here. Have to stay in Bozeman because I couldn’t find anything in Big Sky for under $200 for this coming week. Most places were $400 per bight and up. Yikes!

It’s been by far the most difficult resort to secure affordable lodging, but I'm still stoked to go. At

[yeahman]

Same here. Have to stay in Bozeman because I couldn’t find anything in Big Sky for under $200 for this coming week. Most places were $400 per bight and up. Yikes!

It’s been by far the most difficult resort to secure affordable lodging, but I'm still stoked to go. At

Frankly, staying in Bozeman isn't a bad idea in any case, better restaurants and you can ski Bridger if you want. But I get the 30-40% lodging discount with my gold pass, which makes it not too bad to stay in BS. In fact just a few days ago I decided to ski on President's Day weekend, one of the busiest, and still had no trouble booking a room for way less than $200 a night. The lodging reservation people definitely know me, maybe that helps sometimes. Well anyway, good luck to you guys, hope you have a good trip.

[ChaseBrooklyn]

Yeah, I miss the days when I had to pay $1100 for a season pass to ski 2 mountains (that were still crowded back then). It really sucks that now I pay half the price to ski 10X the amount of ski areas. Bleh!

You forgot the best part: access to powder. With these passes skiers can have majority powder days if they have the time and means to travel.

So yeah, gonna have to do both Ikon and Epic next season, on top of backcountry. I can’t imagine being locked into just one mountain, and it’s still crowded! Fuck that.

Besides, ain’t no mountain big enough to keep me interested for a whole season. I like variety: terrain, conditions, amenities, weather, crowds, etc...

[Benny Profane]

Yup.
Where is it snowing. Cheap flights, Airbnb, go. Modern times.

[Hott Butt Mud]

You forgot the best part: access to powder. With these passes skiers can have majority powder days if they have the time and means to travel.

So yeah, gonna have to do both Ikon and Epic next season, on top of backcountry. I can’t imagine being locked into just one mountain, and it’s still crowded! Fuck that.

Besides, ain’t no mountain big enough to keep me interested for a whole season. I like variety: terrain, conditions, amenities, weather, crowds, etc...

Sounds like you should chase the East Coast.

[Toadman]

Lots of retired boomers with money, spending weeks on end enjoying the good life on the slopes. Rode the lift out in Sun Valley with a retired boomer from Reno who was on the Epic pass, doing a 2 week trip up through Utah and a few days at SV, then back home. Chasing the storms.

I haven't seen the demographics on how many pre-boomers and boomers are leaving the sport due to injury or death, and what the net effect is with the newer generation entering the sport, but it seems that the 2020's might be the hey day decade of the mega pass business model.

[Benny Profane]

Yup.


Maybe the Heyday of skiing as we know it.

Demographics

[Ski220]

Big Sky has has always had limited lodging.

Being one of those out of the way places that you always wanted to go to. Now with an Ikon pass and "free days", maybe more people are making the trek ?

Plans not quite firm - but arriving and staying in Bozeman Tuesday night. Been a long time since I have been to BS. May need a local hut guide. You know ... just to get out of the weather for a few minutes.

[Mr_Lahey]

You forgot the best part: access to powder. With these passes skiers can have majority powder days if they have the time and means to travel.

So yeah, gonna have to do both Ikon and Epic next season, on top of backcountry. I can’t imagine being locked into just one mountain, and it’s still crowded! Fuck that.

Besides, ain’t no mountain big enough to keep me interested for a whole season. I like variety: terrain, conditions, amenities, weather, crowds, etc...

A Jerry on all mountains and a master of none.

[Core Shot]

Logical conclusion. Without skiers the sport of skiing would be better?

Duh.
I see the films of late 60 early 70 J H and the tram has powder for WEEKS and no groomers or moguls.
The skis sucked in comparison but the pow was epic.






Get off my lawn (slope)

[ChaseBrooklyn]

A Jerry on all mountains and a master of none.

You can be the master and have all the glory and bragging rights that come with it.

This Jerry here just wanna have fun.

Peace.

[galibier_numero_un]

An interesting take on ski area economics busy hit my feed:

https://youtu.be/vpcUVOjUrKk

... Thom

[Greenstateofmind]

An interesting take on ski area economics busy hit my feed:

https://youtu.be/vpcUVOjUrKk

... Thom

This guy says the multi-resort megapass is a killer competitive move against local independent hills...

I imagine day ticket sales are up at our independent hill because the local megapass day tickets have increased so dramatically.
So, I can go to the independent hill for 70 or the vail resort for 120...

And, wouldn't vacationers with season passes from independent hills follow this same logic? I can vacation at Vail, CO for 220 x 5 or some independent hill for a fraction of that.

Not everybody has signed on to Ikon/Epic

[paulster2626]

The fuck is a guy like me who has to fly to ski supposed to do? I like to go to Whistler and Aspen. And my local bump is an independent.
My life is just terrible now...

[muted]

An interesting take on ski area economics busy hit my feed:

https://youtu.be/vpcUVOjUrKk

... Thom

As mentioned in the comments, the guy misses the important point that tickets are $200+ because people are willing to pay it, not because resorts costs are high (and they are high, but it's not related). Anyone got the stats on how much tickets skyrocketed in the past 10? years? I vaguely remember one resort jacked their prices awhile ago, was successful, then others followed quickly. I don't think that guy knows the ski industry well, he's just speculating with some good points, sure, but doesn't have inside info.

[Toadman]

The fuck is a guy like me who has to fly to ski supposed to do? I like to go to Whistler and Aspen. And my local bump is an independent.
My life is just terrible now...

Flip a coin.

[galibier_numero_un]

As mentioned in the comments, the guy misses the important point that tickets are $200+ because people are willing to pay it, not because resorts costs are high (and they are high, but it's not related). Anyone got the stats on how much tickets skyrocketed in the past 10? years? I vaguely remember one resort jacked their prices awhile ago, was successful, then others followed quickly. I don't think that guy knows the ski industry well, he's just speculating with some good points, sure, but doesn't have inside info.

Point taken. I have no clue regarding the cost of day tickets, other than yes, elasticity of demand is a given.

My biggest takeaway was that the megapasses are a massive hedge against annual snowfall variation by region.

... Thom

[ChaseBrooklyn]

My biggest takeaway was that the megapasses are a massive hedge against annual snowfall variation by region.

... Thom

Yeah, for Megapass Resorts and skiers.

[axebiker]

Seriously man? Big Sky is not having a great season and has seemed less crowded to me. I have switched lodging around between different days with ease more than once. Boyne lodging was completely booked? Did you try the Wilson?

We looked around quite a bit - VRBO, Big Sky properties, Air BNB - all the usual suspects. It's also a touch trickier since we bring the pup with as well. I'm starting to think we might have to go Bozone and drive out each day.

I'm not saying it's a coincidence, but I'm saying a perceived spike in lodging prices on one particular week in one season isn't necessarily a direct result of the pass.

We looked at about 3 different time frames after President's Day, and just didn't find anything that wasn't way out-of-line price-wise, and we don't look for the $200-and-under dives either. Like I said, we've NEVER had problems in the past, and usually didn't book more than 6-8 weeks out. It's kind of a bummer, as we really wanted to come out this year, since it has been a couple years since we last came out. That said, it's all for nothing at this point - both me and Mrs Axe have been having low back issues with our less-than-a-year-old expensive mattress, resulting in doc visits and PT for both of us. Now, we've come to the conclusion that the mattress is one of the culprits in the pain game, so we have a new, even MORE expensive mattress coming tomorrow...so much for our spring time "fun money". Oh well. Next year. We'll just have to book WAYYYYYYYYY in advance I guess. Like 3+ months...

[skaredshtles]

<snip> It's also a touch trickier since we bring the pup with as well.

Well, there you go.

[axebiker]

Well, there you go.

Old Dog always came out with us. Never had issues finding a place.