Ikon Pass

[altasnob]

I'm not talking about increasing car capacity. The most practical solution would be a reversible bus lane with every 15 minute service. Light rail along 89 would be better. There once was a train between Truckee and Tahoe. If Palisades gets its development parking will be greatly reduced (and no longer free)--which wil produce even more gridlock if there is no reasonable alternative.

Goat, way too early to be drunk. Major metro areas, like Seattle, have difficulty building light rail despite spending 60 billion on the project. Even a short light rail in Tahoe would be in the billions. There is hardly any form of public transit to any ski area in North America. The Cottonwoods in Utah is the only I can think of, and that's only because the ski areas happen to be next to a metro of 1.4 million people. And it's a bus, and it sits in traffic with everyone else. The best you can hope for in Tahoe is similar; a bus that sits in traffic with everyone else. Don't like it, you are free to stay at one of the Alterra owned hotels at the base of the mountain (what Alterra wants you to do).

[TahoeJ]

Old goat, once again, gets it. If there was a dedicated bus lane or light rail on 89 I’d be riding that thing like a European. Most Truckee people agree. Americans do love their cars but the reason we don’t use mass transit is because we’re shitty at it and need reliability. Go to Paris and take the Metro everywhere and it’s awesome.

[altasnob]

Old Goat, like most on TGR, are delusional. There is no profitable public transit in North America. They all must be heavily subsidized by the government to exist. Where are you going to come up with these billions in tax dollars to pay for this transit you want? Where are you going to come up with the billions every year that are necessary for it to continue to exist? There is no legal mechanism to make Alterra pay for it, not that they have the cash to do so. There are too many people living in Truckee, a place that cannot absorb all the people who want to set up shack there. Mass transit barely works in San Francisco, one of the densest cities in America. Mass transit will never work in a place like Truckee.

Like I mentioned above, Alterra does voluntarily pay for a free, Alttera operated bus to Crystal to help alleviate parking and road congestion. That's the best you can hope for.

[truckeelocal]

Old Goat misses a big point though. Visitors generally use their personal transportation device to get here, and once here reasonably expect to continue to use said device (so do locals). Perhaps if visitors get here via mass-transportation they'd use mass-transportation for local journeys too ? Plus it's a problem getting to mass-transit centers with all your ski gear when your accommodation is perhaps a mile away. High density accommodation options are what we need and then we could have workable transit options. So high-rise villages, clustered hotels and restaurants and retail and grocery stores. We're screwed.

By the way I tried to use the bus to get to the renamed resort for the World Cup racing. Said bus did not arrive

[old goat]

Old Goat, like most on TGR, are delusional. There is no profitable public transit in North America. They all must be heavily subsidized by the government to exist. Where are you going to come up with these billions in tax dollars to pay for this transit you want? Where are you going to come up with the billions every year that are necessary for it to continue to exist? There is no legal mechanism to make Alterra pay for it, not that they have the cash to do so. There are too many people living in Truckee, a place that cannot absorb all the people who want to set up shack there. Mass transit barely works in San Francisco, one of the densest cities in America. Mass transit will never work in a place like Truckee.

Like I mentioned above, Alterra does voluntarily pay for a free, Alttera operated bus to Crystal to help alleviate parking and road congestion. That's the best you can hope for.

Bullshit. If they can pay half a billion for "improving the skier experience" they can spend it to improve the lives of the people w,ho live near their resorts. As far as getting Alterra to do, one would hope they would do it voluntarily, but the anger in the community has reached a point where they may well be be forced to. Lawsuits, especially CEQA, both against Alterra and against Placer County, who gets tax dollars from Palisades but refuses to spend it to alleviate the impacts, emergency traffic holds when public safety is threatened, special taxes--even things like protests blocking the access roads.. Now whether it will happen is questionable but the solutions are there if people want them badly enough. It's people like you--cynical apologists for the status quo and the powers that be --who get in the way, but you can be run over.

Old Goat misses a big point though. Visitors generally use their personal transportation device to get here, and once here reasonably expect to continue to use said device (so do locals). Perhaps if visitors get here via mass-transportation they'd use mass-transportation for local journeys too ? Plus it's a problem getting to mass-transit centers with all your ski gear when your accommodation is perhaps a mile away. High density accommodation options are what we need and then we could have workable transit options. So high-rise villages, clustered hotels and restaurants and retail and grocery stores. We're screwed.

By the way I tried to use the bus to get to the renamed resort for the World Cup racing. Said bus did not arrive

. Yes visitors expect to use their own cars. "Reasonably" is another question. If parking at the resorts is limited and expensive, if there is a plate reader based toll on, if there are park and ride lots and extensve enough routes that most people can walk, if the transit service is much faster than driving, reliable, and frequent--then yes, people will leave there cars and use transit. And just because someone feels entitled to use their own car doesn't mean they get to do it. Although I'm sure that's one of the freedoms people think the Founders priomised us in the Constitution. And if that is too inconvenient for people I'm fine with them staying away. I've used mass transit in multiple resorts in the US, Canada, and Europe and it was easy. As it is now in the Truckee Tahoe area I wouldn't use it or expect anyone else to.

[Djongo Unchained]

START - Southern Teton Area Rapid Transit

Jackson has had public transpo for decades.
For most folks it works fine. For some it sucks and for a few, it rules.

[mcski]

Old Goat, like most on TGR, are delusional. There is no profitable public transit in North America. They all must be heavily subsidized by the government to exist. Where are you going to come up with these billions in tax dollars to pay for this transit you want? Where are you going to come up with the billions every year that are necessary for it to continue to exist? There is no legal mechanism to make Alterra pay for it, not that they have the cash to do so. There are too many people living in Truckee, a place that cannot absorb all the people who want to set up shack there. Mass transit barely works in San Francisco, one of the densest cities in America. Mass transit will never work in a place like Truckee.

Like I mentioned above, Alterra does voluntarily pay for a free, Alttera operated bus to Crystal to help alleviate parking and road congestion. That's the best you can hope for.

Seriously, fuck that. It doesn’t matter one Fuk if the mass transit is profitable. It just needs to be efficient. It would not be hard to make a dedicated bus lane like OG suggests. Traffic is strangling the entire Tahoe basin and it should be 100% on alterra now in the north lake to pony up $$$ to provide some remediation. It’s not that hard, it just takes some money and decent government incentives. Unfortunately m, the problem in North Tahoe is we have basically Zero representation. LA had overpasses rebuilt and functional mere weeks after the northridge quake. A bus lane (or even a monorail) is certainly doable. All the power in placer is down the hill making the decisions they don’t have to deal with everyday.

The Gondola should have been between truckee and tc w a spur for squaw. That would have be a useful gondola addition instead of the stupid $50m marketing trip

[DanoT]

START - Southern Teton Area Rapid Transit

Jackson has had public transpo for decades.
For most folks it works fine. For some it sucks and for a few, it rules.

Yes the Jackson transit system is very good and Aspen's transit is the gold standard for North American ski resorts. The basis of the system is free parking and then frequent buses offering a free or inexpensive bus ride to the skiing with some bus stations having boot change and washrooms.

As far as Ikon resorts during the Xmas Holidays: Sun Peaks is the newest Ikon resort, over crowding is limited because for those flying it means taking a connector flight from Calgary, Kelowna, or Vancouver to Kamloops and then a shuttle from the airport to SP.

Once at Sun Peaks you will discover that the place spreads skiers out better than any mountain you can name. Even on the busiest days (6,500-7000 skiers on 137 runs spread over 4,270 acres ) on most runs you will be the only one on it. Skiing is on both sides of a valley with the ski-through village in between.

But here is the best reason to consider SP at Xmas: For more than 30 years there has been a summer grooming program with every stump on the mountain pulled, rocks picked, backhoes doing run reshaping in places, grass planted. Some runs are on a 5 year and some a 3 year rotation for cutting weeds and small conifers. With the addition of some snow making (20 guns) SP has been able to push the normal opening date from the end of the first week of Dec to late Nov., usually several days or a week before U.S. Thanksgiving, making Sun Peaks most often the first to open in the B.C. interior. Early season SP can have a base that is 20cm to 30cm thinner than other B.C. resorts but with better coverage.

Due to snowmaking on OSV and Lower Chute, Sun Peaks offers race team training in early Nov., several weeks prior to the mountain being open to the public.

[Dantheman]

There is hardly any form of public transit to any ski area in North America. The Cottonwoods in Utah is the only I can think of, and that's only because the ski areas happen to be next to a metro of 1.4 million people.

https://www.visitparkcity.com/explore/free-bus-system/

[crankplank]

Just used the buses in Park City this weekend and it was great. I have done Whistler without a car and been happy with my experience.

[~mikey b]

Mammoth has town shuttle busses and it works

[Garfield3d]

I'm confused as to why the bus system in Park City isn't more popular (granted, I haven't been there for a bonafide powder day). If you're doing the tourist experience on a budget, it's especially useful since the Ikon Pass and most season passes cover the bus fare. You can save even more by driving the crappiest rental car of variable tire-quality, boot up in the park-and-ride, and bypass the "experience" of driving a 2-wheel piece of crap rental up and down LCC/BCC.

Mammoth bus system has also been good to me. The park-and-ride on Old Mammoth Road is right next to the Red Line and is the easiest way to get to Main Lodge, imo. And, the VIP drop you off right at the front door to the mountain is top notch. No need to gimp through a parking lot. It makes me feel special.

[hutash]

Mammoth has town shuttle busses and it works

It works very well, and I try to use it and not drive at all.

[old goat]

Seriously, fuck that. It doesn’t matter one Fuk if the mass transit is profitable. It just needs to be efficient. It would not be hard to make a dedicated bus lane like OG suggests. Traffic is strangling the entire Tahoe basin and it should be 100% on alterra now in the north lake to pony up $$$ to provide some remediation. It’s not that hard, it just takes some money and decent government incentives. Unfortunately m, the problem in North Tahoe is we have basically Zero representation. LA had overpasses rebuilt and functional mere weeks after the northridge quake. A bus lane (or even a monorail) is certainly doable. All the power in placer is down the hill making the decisions they don’t have to deal with everyday.

The Gondola should have been between truckee and tc w a spur for squaw. That would have be a useful gondola addition instead of the stupid $50m marketing trip

Vail doesn't get off the hook. The traffic to Northstar on 267 has gotten nearly as bad as to Palisades. Which is a sad sign of the detrioration of skiing in the US of A.
A gondola would be too slow I fear. I can drive from Truckee to Olympic as fast as the gondy trip from Olympic to Alpine (on a light midweek midday trip with no one doing 40 in the 55--the asshole). The idea has attracted enough attention to warrant an article in Moonshine Ink.

[altasnob]

It's all Alterra and Vail's fault, right? Never mind that places like Placer County, CA, are amongst the fastest growing counties in the nation. Hordes of people are moving there, which creates traffic, but then they want to blame (or even sue) Alterra demanding they fix the mess caused by so many people moving there.

Park City, Mammoth, Aspen, Jackson, are all milk runs used by people who fly in that don't want to have to rent a car to get from their hotel to the ski area. What Old Goat wants is the masses who drive to Palisades from the Bay Area to have to park in massive parking lots and then take transit for the last part of their trip so it's easier for him to drive to the grocery store. I don't see it happening and if it does, I don't see Alterra footing the bill.

People will only take transit, whether it is in Tahoe, or a big city, if it makes their lives easier. If you can drive, and driving is faster (or no slower) people will continue to drive.

[mcski]

Vail doesn't get off the hook. The traffic to Northstar on 267 has gotten nearly as bad as to Palisades. Which is a sad sign of the detrioration of skiing in the US of A.
A gondola would be too slow I fear. I can drive from Truckee to Olympic as fast as the gondy trip from Olympic to Alpine (on a light midweek midday trip with no one doing 40 in the 55--the asshole). The idea has attracted enough attention to warrant an article in Moonshine Ink.

Then we definitely need a monorail

[mcski]

It's all Alterra and Vail's fault, right? Never mind that places like Placer County, CA, are amongst the fastest growing counties in the nation. Hordes of people are moving there, which creates traffic, but then they want to blame (or even sue) Alterra demanding they fix the mess caused by so many people moving there.

Park City, Mammoth, Aspen, Jackson, are all milk runs used by people who fly in that don't want to have to rent a car to get from their hotel to the ski area. What Old Goat wants is the masses who drive to Palisades from the Bay Area to have to park in massive parking lots and then take transit for the last part of their trip so it's easier for him to drive to the grocery store. I don't see it happening and if it does, I don't see Alterra footing the bill.

People will only take transit, whether it is in Tahoe, or a big city, if it makes their lives easier. If you can drive, and driving is faster (or no slower) people will continue to drive.

Tahoe makes up a tiny percentage of placer county. Most of it is Sac adjacent commuter houses.

Def people won’t altruistically not drive if they see that as a benefit. But when people can’t get to jobs or safely evacuate a clogged area then legislation is needed to force the issue.

If Tahoe how had its own county, I guarantee you there would be some real action being taken. Unfortunately, it has no real representation. Just out of area folks making decisions and taking the money

[phatty]

Park City and DV, even with the available public transportation is a nightmare from 4-6pm on weekends and during busy times. You can can count on it taking close to an hour to get to either I80 or Hwy 40.

[Toadman]

Yes the Jackson transit system is very good and Aspen's transit is the gold standard for North American ski resorts. The basis of the system is free parking and then frequent buses offering a free or inexpensive bus ride to the skiing with some bus stations having boot change and washrooms.

Having experienced both transit systems recently, can agree that both are very good. Haven't ever rented a car when flying into ASE. Don't need to. The RFTA in the Aspen/Snowmass area is top notch. Most of the bus drivers are awesome IME.

[Duffman]

Having experienced both transit systems recently, can agree that both are very good. Haven't ever rented a car when flying into ASE. Don't need to. The RFTA in the Aspen/Snowmass area is top notch. Most of the bus drivers are awesome IME.

Yep, did the same this trip, stayed right next to Rubey Park transit center, busses running constantly to each mountain, really a great experience to not deal with parking and such. RFTA was really amazing.

[Duffman]

Yes the Jackson transit system is very good and Aspen's transit is the gold standard for North American ski resorts. The basis of the system is free parking and then frequent buses offering a free or inexpensive bus ride to the skiing with some bus stations having boot change and washrooms.

As far as Ikon resorts during the Xmas Holidays: Sun Peaks is the newest Ikon resort, over crowding is limited because for those flying it means taking a connector flight from Calgary, Kelowna, or Vancouver to Kamloops and then a shuttle from the airport to SP.

Once at Sun Peaks you will discover that the place spreads skiers out better than any mountain you can name. Even on the busiest days (6,500-7000 skiers on 137 runs spread over 4,270 acres ) on most runs you will be the only one on it. Skiing is on both sides of a valley with the ski-through village in between.

But here is the best reason to consider SP at Xmas: For more than 30 years there has been a summer grooming program with every stump on the mountain pulled, rocks picked, backhoes doing run reshaping in places, grass planted. Some runs are on a 5 year and some a 3 year rotation for cutting weeds and small conifers. With the addition of some snow making (20 guns) SP has been able to push the normal opening date from the end of the first week of Dec to late Nov., usually several days or a week before U.S. Thanksgiving, making Sun Peaks most often the first to open in the B.C. interior. Early season SP can have a base that is 20cm to 30cm thinner than other B.C. resorts but with better coverage.

Due to snowmaking on OSV and Lower Chute, Sun Peaks offers race team training in early Nov., several weeks prior to the mountain being open to the public.

This sounds amazing, and I so want to hit the interior BC mountains, but from the US east coast and the connections / driving it needs , even Europe is easier. Its unfortunate but we would need to connect through Toronto to Alberta or Van, then Kamloops, then drive. Its rough

[mmmm...pow!]

Tahoe makes up a tiny percentage of placer county. Most of it is Sac adjacent commuter houses.

Def people won’t altruistically not drive if they see that as a benefit. But when people can’t get to jobs or safely evacuate a clogged area then legislation is needed to force the issue.

If Tahoe how had its own county, I guarantee you there would be some real action being taken. Unfortunately, it has no real representation. Just out of area folks making decisions and taking the money

While it does suck that people down the hill are making the decisions for us up here, I'm not so sure it would be much different if we had our own county. It would probably be the same fucktards that run the various business associations here that would end up running our local government - a bunch of Cindys, if you will. And we could still be outvoted by second homeowners. Truckee and SLT, as different as they are, don't seem like they are run much better than eastern Placer.
Maybe just let Alterra build their hotels, and for each room eliminate a STR, and shift the bed base to the valley? Maybe the same with the new TC hotel (or any other new hotel), where a bus to the ski area could make sense? It would never happen, but I would be ok with a skyscraper in the valley if it meant an end to STRs.

[old goat]

While it does suck that people down the hill are making the decisions for us up here, I'm not so sure it would be much different if we had our own county. It would probably be the same fucktards that run the various business associations here that would end up running our local government - a bunch of Cindys, if you will. And we could still be outvoted by second homeowners. Truckee and SLT, as different as they are, don't seem like they are run much better than eastern Placer.
Maybe just let Alterra build their hotels, and for each room eliminate a STR, and shift the bed base to the valley? Maybe the same with the new TC hotel (or any other new hotel), where a bus to the ski area could make sense? It would never happen, but I would be ok with a skyscraper in the valley if it meant an end to STRs.

Waddayoumean!? Truckee has shown itself to be very good at building roundabouts.

[Shredhead]

I’m a big fan of dedicated bus lanes.
Not only does mass transit use them, but school buses and emergency vehicles.
When Aspen holds the XGames, they bring in extra buses from the National Parks, which aren’t busy in January.
Fixed mass transit is expensive and inefficient.
I don’t see how residents can hold Alterra responsible, when they’ve been kicking the can down the road, for decades.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[old goat]

We blame Alterra and Vail because their resorts are what drive the gridlock. Their profits derive in part from public infrastructure for which they pay nothing. What taxes they pay go to Placer County, which isn't spending them up here. And Truckee gets zero. The reason some ski towns have good public transit is that the resort and the town are a single entity, so local govt has a lot of control over the resort, Our problem is spread out between a town and two counties, the latter being run from the other side of the mountains.

And as far as kicking the can down the road--we don't just blame Alterra. We blame Alex Cushing too.