Ikon Pass

[Danno]

What is the argument here? There's a lot of trains of thought in here so it's not clear, but is the argument that AB is wrong, that their business decision to go Ikon/MC will result in less revenue for them? I have a hard time imagining that, if the numbers bounced around in this thread are even close to accurate re reimbursement rate from VR/Alterra. Moreover, I have a hard time imagining it because the people who have the actual numbers -- ABasin management -- made this business decision. And not out of the goodness of their hearts to us Ikoners.

Or is the argument more the "I wanted to ski AB and buy an Epic pass, and now that is more expensive so I am going to bitch about what a dumb decision AB made"?

[Kinnikinnick]

What is the argument here? There's a lot of trains of thought in here so it's not clear, but is the argument that AB is wrong, that their business decision to go Ikon/MC will result in less revenue for them? I have a hard time imagining that, if the numbers bounced around in this thread are even close to accurate re reimbursement rate from VR/Alterra. Moreover, I have a hard time imagining it because the people who have the actual numbers -- ABasin management -- made this business decision. And not out of the goodness of their hearts to us Ikoners.

Or is the argument more the "I wanted to ski AB and buy an Epic pass, and now that is more expensive so I am going to bitch about what a dumb decision AB made"?

I don't think that anyone has made a fact or rationally based argument as to how its bad for skiers or the industry. But the IKON for one has really been a lightning rod of local discontent. A scapegoat.

[Kinnikinnick]

That's the nub of it with either Ikon or Epic.

It's easy to get carried away by it being good for your purse but to ignore the fact the experience is actually being more crowded.

And far easier for the visitor to feel it in the purse.

This is not good for the industry or the skier long term.

People should just not ski at these places, you know, to save the experience for others. Well, mainly you.

[PNWbrit]

People should just not ski at these places, you know, to save the experience for others. Well, mainly you.

You're missing the point completely.

[Telemarketeer]

all these people skiing is killing the sport. When I started skiing in CO 25 years ago it cost $1100 for a pass to Vail and Beaver Creek. It was still pretty damn busy, long lift lines, traffic etc. Now I can get a pass to a shitload of resorts, for less than a grand, and ski anywhere I want. Living through the evolution of the Epic pass has really not been nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Of course, I have a flexible schedule and ski 80-100 days a season, so maybe I’m just used to it and know when and where to go. I rarely wait in lift lines honestly.

If Epikon is going to ruin skiing, I haven’t seen it yet.

[Kinnikinnick]

You're missing the point completely.

Well, what is your point?


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[Kinnikinnick]

all these people skiing is killing the sport.

Yeah. Quit skiing people!


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[PNWbrit]

Well, what is your point?
]

US ski areas being swallowed up by an ever bigger duopoly. Evidence of the "experience" being worsened ... although cheaper... but only for some (those paying more - or getting less are usually locals for whom the travelling benefits are less valuable then for brekfast buffet crowd). The pressure on smaller independent ski areas... it's been discussed here before at length... long term this is not going to be good.

[Kinnikinnick]

US ski areas being swallowed up by an ever bigger duopoly. Evidence of the "experience" being worsened ... although cheaper... but only for some (those paying more - or getting less are usually locals for whom the travelling benefits are less valuable then for brekfast buffet crowd). The pressure on smaller independent ski areas... it's been discussed here before at length... long term this is not going to be good.

Meh.


“This is not going to be good”. Isn’t a compelling argument in my book.

It’s economics in action. Whether the outcome is “good” is a totally subjective measure.

Maybe some independent mountains get crushed and close down. Although in Colorado the demographics are of an increasing population that chases the outdoors. Berthoud pass closed down some 20 years ago, but I’m sure they’d make it, regardless of the Ikon/Epic.

I’d bet that in WA, ID, MT, the population growth is similar.

So where’s the pain, small Midwest independents?

And as far as the locals go, the resorts aren’t there primarily for the cadres of transplanted locals, they’re businesses and if they think joining IKON is in their interest then they should.


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[summit]

What is the argument here? There's a lot of trains of thought in here so it's not clear, but is the argument that AB is wrong, that their business decision to go Ikon/MC will result in less revenue for them? I have a hard time imagining that, if the numbers bounced around in this thread are even close to accurate re reimbursement rate from VR/Alterra. Moreover, I have a hard time imagining it because the people who have the actual numbers -- ABasin management -- made this business decision. And not out of the goodness of their hearts to us Ikoners.

Or is the argument more the "I wanted to ski AB and buy an Epic pass, and now that is more expensive so I am going to bitch about what a dumb decision AB made"?

My belief is that:
1. AB will make more money
2. AB will likely not be much less crowded, either in terms of skiers or parking, except maybe midwinter weekdays, which weren't ever crowded
3. It is annoying for me because I have to buy an additional pass

[The SnowShow]

Because IKONers hate to carpool?

I really don’t mind maxed out parking on weekends. Keep the place in business. Parking in the upper lots isn’t that bad if you just walk across the road to CDOT.

Parking in the actual lots isn’t a problem. It’s when it’s fucking 9am on a Saturday and they’re already parking down the road near Keystone.

Once on the mountain, the place doesn’t usually feel crowded at all skiing the good terrain.

[Benny Profane]

Long term what isn't good is the Boomers, who built the sport, dying off, with not much replacing them.

[PNWbrit]

It’s economics in action.

As I pointed out.

In action in a way that is almost always bad for consumers..

[Telemarketeer]

Long term what isn't good is the Boomers, who built the sport, dying off, with not much replacing them.

Good riddance.

[summit]

Well many resorts will close or run reduces seasons due to climate change (thanks again Boomers) so the ski industry capacity will shrink "naturally" to match shrinking participation.

Long biking season...

[robgoose]

My belief is that:
1. AB will make more money
2. AB will likely not be much less crowded, either in terms of skiers or parking, except maybe midwinter weekdays, which weren't ever crowded
3. It is annoying for me because I have to buy an additional pass

AB's joining the Mountain Collective means 50% day tix at other MC resorts. While that's not free, for many passholders it might make more sense than getting a full IKON

[Benny Profane]

Good riddance.

You must be a cool Backcountry skier, because ain't nobody going to be spinning lifts for a generation that's a trillion point five in debt just for school.

[skaredshtles]

You must be a cool Backcountry skier, because ain't nobody going to be spinning lifts for a generation that's a trillion point five in debt just for school.

Good. Perhaps all these corporate-owned mountains will go out of business and municipalities will realize that community-run ski areas can work. It'll be like the 40's/50's all over again.

[Meadow Skipper]

ABasin pass holders get 50% off at MC resorts + more perks coming later this week.

Same with a Taos pass.

Nobody goes to A-Basin anymore, it’s too crowded.

[Telemarketeer]

You must be a cool Backcountry skier, because ain't nobody going to be spinning lifts for a generation that's a trillion point five in debt just for school.

Most Boomers are already to old to ski, and here we are complaining about the crowds. Hmmm

[Benny Profane]

They're also paying for a lot of younger people out on the hills. So, when those funds and credit cards die.....

[Benny Profane]

Good. Perhaps all these corporate-owned mountains will go out of business and municipalities will realize that community-run ski areas can work. It'll be like the 40's/50's all over again.

Dude, the priorities soon will be schools with books and computers, clean water, bridges that don't fall down, and paved roads. Something as frivolous as an operating ski hill will be hard to find.

[PNWbrit]

Something as frivolous as an operating ski hill to go vacation at will be hard to find.

FIFY.

[Ottime]

1. The town had to force a tax on Vail to provide parking for their customers. Because Vail takes that for granted and thought they could use the town's parking infrastructure already in place when they sold the land for development that used to be their parking.

2. Real Estate is a large part of MTNs portfolio. They buy ski resorts and sell land that's not essential (parking included) for development.

3. I guarantee most of the Midwest ski areas they just purchased have season passes for around $200 a year. An epic locals is around a 100-300% increase from that. And I'm guessing a lot of those skiers don't travel west of the Mississippi often especially for skiing. They just priced more people out of the sport.

Always figure the Midwest skier was the winner with epic. Most folks I know from Chicago who ski travel west and rarely bother at home. Epic works pretty good for them and they can even ski at home if they want to get ready for their trip.

[Tri-Ungulate]

Long term what isn't good is the Boomers, who built the sport, dying off, with not much replacing them.

Yeah by the time they're all gone there won't be any snow anymore anyway.