Ikon Pass

[paulster2626]

I don't think they can really respond to the pricing without looking like idiots. They may make group buys and other discounts a little better, but would be tough to wholesale drop the price.

They are helping Crystal in Seattle. Now Steven's + Whistler for under $600? Almost a no brainer. I wonder if it kills off the Edge Card we can get for Whistler.

All edge cards discounted 20%. It's glorious. Now just need that border to stay closed...

[Bunion 2020]

ETA: VR probably timed it to take advantage of all those stimulus checks being sent out.

Spot on.

[Ottime]

Definitely just shelled out nearly $1k each for Ikon passes for my wife and I so we're committed. I don't see Ikon giving credits or doing anything but maybe this means Epic resorts will be slammed less than Ikon.

If it wasn't for the Jackson Hole days, I would've looked harder at Epic.

I think they are different products.

I will buy the Kirkwood Pass next year and like the lower price. Still 25% more since pre Vail, but better than last year.

But the rest of the Vail resorts (outside Tride and Whistler) are of no interest to me. Not places I would travel to. IKON has a bunch of popular big mountain resorts that are on the list, even if you get rid of JHMR. I'd travel to Big Sky and Red in a heartbeat. I'd go back to BCC and LCC and might even take a day with a valet at DR. I'd rather Steamboat over Breck or Vail. SV/AM and Mammoth are my go to resorts being I live in CA, but I'd travel to those as well.

Epic looks like a pass you buy when you live in the Northeast and might occasionally travel west, and IKON more for someone who lives near one of the Alterra resorts and takes a few trips to big mountain resorts each year.

I bet there is a split and Epic realized they needed to lower prices to stay competitive based on the offerings.

[Ottime]

Ikon has changed the definition of "defer".

I never used my pass this season, with the assurance (their word) that I could DEFER my pass to 21/22. So, I chose the option yesterday to defer, because I got an email that I had to do it by 4/11 or my pass would not defer.

Here's their confirmation email:

We received your request to defer the purchase price paid for your 20/21 Ikon Base Pass. The deferral has been processed. Your pass is no longer eligible for use during the 20/21 season. You will receive a credit toward the purchase of an eligible 21/22 pass.

So - what they're doing is crediting my 20/21 purchase price into my Icon Account on April 19. Not a refund, not an automatic pass renewal for 21/22. I have to use the "credit" to purchase a 21/22 pass, at whatever price they decide to charge that day (I called, no one would commit that it was enough credit to buy even a Base Pass).

I expected a full deferral, as that was what they advertised, thinking the pass would just transfer over to the next season.

That is not a change. That was how it was defined last fall when they offered. Maybe we could call it the 'fine print', but I do think it was fair. Epic did not offer a deferral at all, and we choose ikon not knowing if we would want to ski this winter. We ended up putting 15 days on our pass so far and will get in 6 more before Spring skiing starts, so it worked for us. But I still think it was generous to give pass holders until April 11th to decide. If it just was a super shitty snow year, you could opt out and not lose any money. I do understand how this could come as a shock, but that was why I read everything closely last summer when buying a pass.

[adrian.bee]

Ikon has changed the definition of "defer".


So - what they're doing is crediting my 20/21 purchase price into my Icon Account on April 19. Not a refund, not an automatic pass renewal for 21/22. I have to use the "credit" to purchase a 21/22 pass, at whatever price they decide to charge that day (I called, no one would commit that it was enough credit to buy even a Base Pass).

Wait...wut? Did the same thing and didn't even notice or think of that. They can't just raise the price can they? They would get flamed by all 100 of us tgr users? Good god..

[Ottime]

This thread should be archived and then picked apart next winter when all of the penny pinchers are whining like little bitches about the awful lines and crowds at the Epic resorts. I mean, really? Good luck. Betcha you would gladly pay that 20% you were discounted and 20% more just to avoid shit like this:



Fuck Vail.

Thanks benny. you've always been ahead of the curve on this Epic thing.

Just want to point out that the picture of that line was taken before there was a lower price, so not sure how the lower price would cause that when it happened already with the higher price. Maybe it was the powder day influence. Just spit balling.

Fuck Vail.[/QUOTE]

[El Chupacabra]

That is not a change. That was how it was defined last fall when they offered. Maybe we could call it the 'fine print', but I do think it was fair. Epic did not offer a deferral at all, and we choose ikon not knowing if we would want to ski this winter. We ended up putting 15 days on our pass so far and will get in 6 more before Spring skiing starts, so it worked for us. But I still think it was generous to give pass holders until April 11th to decide. If it just was a super shitty snow year, you could opt out and not lose any money. I do understand how this could come as a shock, but that was why I read everything closely last summer when buying a pass.

This. It was not a change in the terms.

I'm actually pretty pleased with the deferral, since IMHO it was a shitty snow year + Covid stopped all ski trips for us. I'm planning on buying my next year's pass ASAP on April 19, and using it this spring - which I didn't really expect Ikon to offer, but I'm glad they are.

[Benny Profane]

Thanks benny. you've always been ahead of the curve on this Epic thing.

Just want to point out that the picture of that line was taken before there was a lower price, so not sure how the lower price would cause that when it happened already with the higher price. Maybe it was the powder day influence. Just spit balling.

Fuck Vail.

What?


The Epic pass has been around over twenty years. It's always been a "lower price". When they lowered the price to basically a discounted week of skiing compared to retail, about ten years ago, that's when the shit started hitting the fan. I'll bet at least 30% of the bodies in that pic are tourists from a flight away, and Epic skiers.

Rob could give a fuck. Like he's a serious skier. Now he's doubling down with an even more intense price war. I'll bet he's thinking of a merger with Alterra. Seriously.

[grapedrink]

I think they are different products.

I will buy the Kirkwood Pass next year and like the lower price. Still 25% more since pre Vail, but better than last year.

But the rest of the Vail resorts (outside Tride and Whistler) are of no interest to me. Not places I would travel to. IKON has a bunch of popular big mountain resorts that are on the list, even if you get rid of JHMR. I'd travel to Big Sky and Red in a heartbeat. I'd go back to BCC and LCC and might even take a day with a valet at DR. I'd rather Steamboat over Breck or Vail. SV/AM and Mammoth are my go to resorts being I live in CA, but I'd travel to those as well.

Epic looks like a pass you buy when you live in the Northeast and might occasionally travel west, and IKON more for someone who lives near one of the Alterra resorts and takes a few trips to big mountain resorts each year.

I bet there is a split and Epic realized they needed to lower prices to stay competitive based on the offerings.

If you're an east coaster and you're travelling west for your ski trips instead of going east to Verbier and Arlberg for a couple weeks, you're doing it wrong.

[Benny Profane]

Epic gives you a full season pass to three very popular mountains that NY metro skiers use. Hunter, Mt. Snow, and Okemo. Stowe slightly restricted. To the average Eastern skier, that's a lot of skiing. Not my cup, but, people love those places. The west is total gravy.

I understand your thoughts on Europe, but, as you said, a couple weeks. That day of travel is too grueling to bookend one typical vacation week.

[Toadman]

What?




I'll bet he's thinking of a merger with Alterra. Seriously.

I'd like to see him try. I bet there would be multiple hedge funds who would love to break up VR and sell the pieces.

[Benny Profane]

I hope so. But, you're thinking Private Equity players, not hedgies.

Best description I heard of the ski hill business is snow farming. That was from Lazlo at Plattekill, who operates a tight ship in the Catskills. And debt is what brings all farmers down, sooner or later. You can't operate a business that is subject to both weather and macro economic vagaries as though you can conjure a steady revenue flow at will, because you'll get nailed eventually. And now he's starting a price war, gambling that ticket sales and lessons and food and drink will explode next season. Maybe. Maybe not. If not, they're in even deeper shit. But, maybe some congressman who has been taking bribes will help bail them out. It's the American way.

[old goat]

I hope so. But, you're thinking Private Equity players, not hedgies.

Best description I heard of the ski hill business is snow farming. That was from Lazlo at Plattekill, who operates a tight ship in the Catskills. And debt is what brings all farmers down, sooner or later. You can't operate a business that is subject to both weather and macro economic vagaries as though you can conjure a steady revenue flow at will, because you'll get nailed eventually. And now he's starting a price war, gambling that ticket sales and lessons and food and drink will explode next season. Maybe. Maybe not. If not, they're in even deeper shit. But, maybe some congressman who has been taking bribes will help bail them out. It's the American way.

I agree about the weather, but skiing is increasingly becoming a business whose customers are mostly immune to economic ups and downs. Not everyone of course, but enough. People gotta get their teeth fixed.

[hutash]

I assume/hope that people who deferred will get the renewal price currently avaible. If they jack the price the day April 18th they will create a bit of a shit storm.

I am curious how/if Rusty will respond to Vail's discount. In the past while at Mammoth he has tried to buy his way out of such situations by giving resort credit. Sucked to have to use it on over priced beers, but it was nice to get somewhat "free" beer.

[Ottime]

I can confirm that deferrals are renewals and receive the renewal price which is $50/$100 more that what they charged for 20/21.

I believe Renewal price is good until May 5th. Current group until May 18th. I suspect that is when online prices go up.

[hutash]

Thanks as always for keeping on top of Ikon prices and dates. They seem to like to make it difficult to keep track.

I don't know if you can say, but if I recall the renewal discount price is still less then the group buy, at least before the deadline???

[Benny Profane]

New interview hot off the presses. I haven't heard it. Took place yesterday as Vail announced discount.


https://www.stormskiing.com/p/podcas...tm_source=copy

[stupendous_man]

New interview hot off the presses. I haven't heard it. Took place yesterday as Vail announced discount.


https://www.stormskiing.com/p/podcas...tm_source=copy

"The market will tell us" if Ikon Passes are priced correctly, "guaranteed" new partners for 2021-22 season


oof hope buying my epic pass wasnt the wrong move

[phatty]

Who else is left that would move the needle? Are there any larger hills left in NA that aren't already tied up? Taos? Mt. Hood Meadows?

[Toadman]

I hope so. But, you're thinking Private Equity players, not hedgies.

Best description I heard of the ski hill business is snow farming. That was from Lazlo at Plattekill, who operates a tight ship in the Catskills. And debt is what brings all farmers down, sooner or later. You can't operate a business that is subject to both weather and macro economic vagaries as though you can conjure a steady revenue flow at will, because you'll get nailed eventually. And now he's starting a price war, gambling that ticket sales and lessons and food and drink will explode next season. Maybe. Maybe not. If not, they're in even deeper shit. But, maybe some congressman who has been taking bribes will help bail them out. It's the American way.

hedgies do the same as PE. I've been through the hedge fund buy out take private and then sell off the pieces experience before. It's not fun for the employees. But I'm sure the hedge funders and PE types get their rocks off making money off other people's misery.

I used to hear this phrase from a since retired VP - "Weather is not a strategy." But in the skiing and farming worlds, it's all about the weather.

Congressmen don't take bribes. They take "campaign donations. and enjoy high priced dinners"

[Toadman]

Who else is left that would move the needle? Are there any larger hills left in NA that aren't already tied up? Taos? Mt. Hood Meadows?

maybe some international destinations.

[Benny Profane]

Powdr mountains.

[Ottime]

Thanks as always for keeping on top of Ikon prices and dates. They seem to like to make it difficult to keep track.

I don't know if you can say, but if I recall the renewal discount price is still less then the group buy, at least before the deadline???

Correct. Renewal wins by 2-3 resort beers

[Ottime]

Who else is left that would move the needle? Are there any larger hills left in NA that aren't already tied up? Taos? Mt. Hood Meadows?

Didn't they have Taos the first year?

I'm hoping for 5 days at Dodge Ridge. That place is close to me.

[skysos]

Who else is left that would move the needle? Are there any larger hills left in NA that aren't already tied up? Taos? Mt. Hood Meadows?

Grand Targhee? I can't believe Vail or Alterra hasn't picked it up. Maybe it would help Alterra with their JH crowding problem. Vail could get it just to be a thorn in Alterra's side.