Ikon Pass

[TAFKALVS]

Not particularly no.

More a "if we small communities, businesses, private & public land owners, local, regional and national governments work in agreement that a thriving ski area is good for the local economy and residents.. we actually can"

Here we have the Forest Service licencing land use to an ever bigger duopoly for pennies.

I think the Vail monopoly of public land access is one of the strongest cases for antitrust in this century.

[Buster Highmen]

I always laugh to myself when the ignorant right rants about 'socialist' Europe, particularly when it comes to mountain towns where small business are so much more obvious than in the states or Canada.

The little independent, family owned restaurants and hotels, the people selling charcuterie and cheeses, the diversity of small businesses that flourish in the middle of all that infrastructure is so cool and such a sweet contrast to the over hyped, increasingly corporate, overrun and exclusive resorts of North America.

[Djongo Unchained]

Really? The place is closed well before high Colorado hits prime Spring. And it's feeze/thaw a month before that. I mean, nice terrain, but, don't start with snow quality.

Hmmmm, where to start? We have a winter every year, CO does not. 350 inches in JH is looow, when that's a good year in most of south of the border. 400-450 normal up to 550 regularly and 600not uncommon. That's in our short season.

Our snow tends to be colder and we stay cooler through the winter.

Daily quality is generally top shelf whether it's snowing or not. If that hasn't been your experience, I'm a little surprised but know JH can suck.
Freeze/thaw can happen here any week of the ski season. Incredibly variable. Some days it's Dangerous and Terrible. On a grand scale.

The village season is dictated by the USFS in conjunction with the NPS so the window is tighter than we'd like.

Oh my. Excuse us.

How do you ever put up with the rabble and deplorables that plow your driveway and wash your shit?

I know this wasn't direct to me but I resemble that rabble dammit.

I'm a snow removal machine: shovel, snowblower, plow. Clean 2 driveways, pre dawn roll out.
First box, first tracks. Mags know me.

I am not a banker. Working man.
Would be glad to give you the full Tour de Hut Route en JH.
Harry says you fit the aforementioned criteria already. Pencil us in this season...
I'll likely be skiing in 3rd gear this year as I gots a new ACL and a little less Quad tendon and Meniscus.

[Djongo Unchained]

Buck up ski comrade!

You live in a paradise. Unfortunately that’s the price to be paid for living in such a place - more and more people coming that way.


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Agreed. I never, ever forget how special the Hole is. And I've never minded the crowds. We're all a tourist somewhere, no?

The snow in a bad year is still equal to or better than a good year at a lot of resorts in the Rockies, and the terrain is still top notch (as long as the supervolcano doesn't explode and take the Tetons with it). I'll still keep visiting and skiing wit ya - early tram line or bust!

He fucking gets it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
I always dig on people digging on the vill. It's easy even for a beginner. I understand that and encourage it.
From the rad young mouth breather on the box as we roll past the couloir, to the overloaded Dad navigating the family into the testosterone filled tram to the flatlander wigging out on the scope/scale of the area. A little help can make a good time out of otherwise shize.

It occurs to me that the problem for JH may be that it provides for a week of skiing. Therefore it makes an actual full vacation there waaay more viable. Before it was Pricy and a bit off the Path. Now it's cheap and within reach of a few other destinations.

I'm gonna try and make the best of it. I'll survive.

[cmsummit]

Hmmmm, where to start? We have a winter every year, CO does not. 350 inches in JH is looow, when that's a good year in most of south of the border. 400-450 normal up to 550 regularly and 600not uncommon. That's in our short season.

Our snow tends to be colder and we stay cooler through the winter.

Ha! Let's keep the embellishment in check. Don't get me wrong, JHMR is a gnar mountain and a special place, but you missed the mark with those comments.

FTR, CO snow averages 7 - 7.5% moisture content, JHMR is around 9%, so not colder. JHMR also averages 370" annually at mid-mountain, so not far off (or right on par) with some of the CO areas. Only at the Raymer study plot (9,360') and at an elevation higher than 90% of it's inbounds skiable terrain, does JHMR average 450"+. I've been rained on twice at JHMR in January, that's never happened to me in 24 seasons of skiing at 10k'+ in CO.

In fact, JHMR snow reporting might be the biggest joke in the business. I snapped this screenshot almost 3 years ago when they were reporting a seasonal snowfall total of 60" YTD in November right before they opened......


I mean, c'mon.......that's pathetic. Padded numbers galore.

Here's everything you ever wanted to know about total annual averages, snow densities and more......
http://bestsnow.net

Party on and pray for snow! Hope to make it up to JHole this winter.....

[Buster Highmen]

Drinks with Benny's Bitters can lead to upset stomachs.

As an old fuck who has seen the demise in ski access and quality virtually everywhere, I get it.

All the love to the sisterhood and brotherhood of ski fiends everywhere.

[Djongo Unchained]

Ha! Let's keep the embellishment in check. Don't get me wrong, JHMR is a gnar mountain and a special place, but you missed the mark with those comments.

FTR, CO snow averages 7 - 7.5% moisture content, JHMR is around 9%, so not colder. JHMR also averages 370" annually at mid-mountain, so not far off (or right on par) with some of the CO areas. Only at the Raymer study plot (9,360') and at an elevation higher than 90% of it's inbounds skiable terrain, does JHMR average 450"+. I've been rained on twice at JHMR in January, that's never happened to me in 24 seasons of skiing at 10k'+ in CO.

In fact, JHMR snow reporting might be the biggest joke in the business. I snapped this screenshot almost 3 years ago when they were reporting a seasonal snowfall total of 60" YTD in November right before they opened......


I mean, c'mon.......that's pathetic. Padded numbers galore.

Here's everything you ever wanted to know about total annual averages, snow densities and more......
http://bestsnow.net

Party on and pray for snow! Hope to make it up to JHole this winter.....

I got about 5 minutes in and realized bestsnow is too heady. I'm just gonna have to go with my personal experience on this one.

In your pic of 11/12/16 they counted the 60" that fell in oct/nov.; all melted away.( Yeah that's bullshit I'm the first to call them out on that crap. The rest of the season's numbers are as tight as looking at the live feed for 15 minute snowfall intervals. )But then we got about 10 feet in the next 6 weeks. And roughly 48 feet for the short season.

So you're the guy who brings the rain; we been a'huntin you.

It's colder in CO than in JH...said no one ever. And comparing one WY resort to an entire state of resorts gets problematic.

I like most things about CO. But the skiing has never done it for me.

Bring yer weed.

[Buster Highmen]

CO has a lot of great skiing.
So does JH.
For my changed nickel, I decided on CO, mostly because I can get away from the crowds more easily there.

[Benny Profane]

JH opening and closing: 18/19....... open 11/24/2018, close 04/07/2019

ABasin dates: 18/19....... open 10/20/2018, close 06/02/2019

And, powder not uncommon at Abasin early May. Slush common at JH in March. It faces south. Well, southeast, but, south.

[Buster Highmen]

I've had a shitload of good times at JH, it's a great mountain and they get a lot of good snow.

So it's great people love it there.

I have my reasons to go elsewhere and I don't need to shit on anyone else's cake.

[doebedoe]

.....Our snow tends to be colder and we stay cooler through the winter.
....
Freeze/thaw can happen here any week of the ski season. Incredibly variable. ...

So you're both "cooler through the winter" and "freeze/thaw can happen here any week". Those two don't make sense.

CO resorts (and I'm not talking about Powderhorn or Hesperus) don't get freeze/thaw in Dec-mid March unless we get downright lucky. Else we might ski something over 30degrees in the BC more often.

For good skiing, a climate moving between 15-30F produces better conditions than one varying between 0F-45F.

[cmsummit]

It's colder in CO than in JH...said no one ever.

Average December high/low temps:
Jackson = 28/6
Breck = 30/0

January high/low
Jackson 28/5
Breck 29/0

March high/low
Jackson 42/17
Breck 37/8

It's pretty damn close in the winter, gets colder here at night....larger diurnal swings. A place like ABasin or Loveland would be even colder than those Breck (town) #'s. It warms up quick in the late winter/early spring in Jackson.

[Telemarketeer]

The state of CO vs Jackson Hole? yawn..... Is it winter yet?

[Ottime]

It’s kind of funny. When Vail bought my piece of paradise almost a decade ago, and I complained about all the bullshit that brought to the place, most on this board told me to STFU, this is the future of skiing, the resort is a business, crowds are what keeps them afloat, blah, blah, blah, get used to it and stop bitching of GTFO and go some place else.

First they came for the gypsies. Now that they are coming for the big boys, y’all are wondering why your piece of paradise is overrun with gapers. Get used to it. It’s the fire of skiing.

[Telemarketeer]

d

It’s kind of funny. When Vail bought my piece of paradise almost a decade ago, and I complained about all the bullshit that brought to the place, most on this board told me to STFU, this is the future of skiing, the resort is a business, crowds are what keeps them afloat, blah, blah, blah, get used to it and stop bitching of GTFO and go some place else.

First they came for the gypsies. Now that they are coming for the big boys, y’all are wondering why your piece of paradise is overrun with gapers. Get used to it. It’s the fire of skiing.

Little overly dramatic don't cha think?

[skiracer88_00]

Jackson has great blips during the season, with mediocore to downright terrible snow between, the high resorts of Colorado have less bouts of pure perfection, but have consistently good conditions with cold snow all season long. I have been to Jackson 3 times. Two of the three were planned trips and consisted of some of the worst snow I have ever skied. The other one time I chased a storm and had some of the best snow I have skied. I know its anecdotal, but I have talked to others who have had the same experience. If you can storm chase to Jackson, you will win for sure. If you plan a family vacation months in advance, your chances of shit conditions are far higher in Jackson than the high resorts in CO.

[snowaddict91]

I think I've posted this somewhere before, but last spring I was on the lift at Snowbird talking to someone from out of town. They went on to say that Snowbird "isn't even in the same league as Jackson." My response was "you're right, don't they close next week?" He went on about terrain, snowfall, every other reason. Just thought that was hilarious.

Full disclosure, Jackson is a rad mountain and I'd jump at the chance to live there if I could afford it. I've skied mediocre snow for parts of every trip I've been there, though.

[cmsummit]

Jackson has great blips during the season, with mediocore to downright terrible snow between, the high resorts of Colorado have less bouts of pure perfection, but have consistently good conditions with cold snow all season long. I have been to Jackson 3 times. Two of the three were planned trips and consisted of some of the worst snow I have ever skied. The other one time I chased a storm and had some of the best snow I have skied. I know its anecdotal, but I have talked to others who have had the same experience. If you can storm chase to Jackson, you will win for sure. If you plan a family vacation months in advance, your chances of shit conditions are far higher in Jackson than the high resorts in CO.

^This is pretty spot on. The first time I got rained on in JH was a January storm chase in ‘03. It was rain below Sublette and the heaviest manky snow above. The storm was Pineapple Express’d and came in warmer than forecasts. It was a good learning experience and I pay attention to temps much more now when storm chasing than I did previously.


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[AdironRider]

Anyone who thinks anywhere in Colorado remotely compares to Jackson is not a good enough skier to appreciate what Jackson brings to the table. Yeah I said it.

But bring your weed though, that shit is dank.

[skiracer88_00]

Anyone who thinks anywhere in Colorado remotely compares to Jackson is not a good enough skier to appreciate what Jackson brings to the table. Yeah I said it.

But bring your weed though, that shit is dank.

You are, quite simply, wrong.
Telluride, Crested Butte, Silverton, Snowmass/Highlands and A-Basin beg to differ (and the predominant aspect at those resorts isn't southeast).

[PNWbrit]

How big is JH's umbrella?

[Danno]

Anyone who thinks anywhere in Colorado remotely compares to Jackson is not a good enough skier to appreciate what Jackson brings to the table. Yeah I said it.

But bring your weed though, that shit is dank.

Anyone who thinks nowhere in Colorado even remotely compares to Jackson has not skied Crested Butte.

Jackson has better snow (on average) than CB, but CB has every bit the terrain to pucker you. And what's more, there's no little warning sign saying "cliffs" before every hudge cliff. There's just a fucking cliff and you better know it's there.

[skier666]

Just wanted to say I love reading this thread with a nice Scotch after the kids go to bed...

USA ski region battles are the best aren't they?

[EWG]

Anyone who thinks nowhere in Colorado even remotely compares to Jackson has not skied Crested Butte.

Jackson has better snow (on average) than CB, but CB has every bit the terrain to pucker you. And what's more, there's no little warning sign saying "cliffs" before every hudge cliff. There's just a fucking cliff and you better know it's there.

And even if you notice it's there, you might not really have an option besides hucking it, since there is literally no way else to go but down. (parts of Spellbound, for example)

[EWG]

Just wanted to say I love reading this thread with a nice Scotch after the kids go to bed...

USA ski region battles are the best aren't they?

It's 2:40 pm MST. What the fuck time do your kids go to bed? Do you put them to bed at 2pm so you can start drinking scotch? Wait...that's brilliant!

Fuck, it turns out I did it wrong all those years...