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Thread: Ikon Pass
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10-01-2019, 07:32 AM #2726
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10-01-2019, 07:38 AM #2727
Snow King used to throw in a reach around on yer $99 season pass purchase.
Now it's about $500 and you gotta suck on something.
The new owners have absolutely killed any 'town hill' feelings of affection.
To wit: The Town Downhill, held on the King's Mini-Hahnenkamm race course for decades, officially moved to JHMR about a week ago.
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10-01-2019, 07:40 AM #2728
Buck up ski comrade!
You live in a paradise. Unfortunately that’s the price to be paid for living in such a place - more and more people coming that way.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
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10-01-2019, 07:53 AM #2729
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10-01-2019, 08:33 AM #2730
The snow in a bad year is still equal to or better than a good year at a lot of resorts in the Rockies, and the terrain is still top notch (as long as the supervolcano doesn't explode and take the Tetons with it). I'll still keep visiting and skiing wit ya - early tram line or bust!
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10-01-2019, 08:50 AM #2731
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10-01-2019, 09:16 AM #2732
Ikon Pass
I feel the ikon highlights one of the big issues we have in the states - not enough big mountain lift served ski terrain relative to the number of skiers. Yes not all ikon are core shredders but all want to be connected to a place like Jackson or Snowbird or Big Sky. Those places are aspirational and exciting even if you’re just there on the blues. The terminal intermediate Ikoner is there for many of the same reasons we are... good snow, challenging (relative) terrain, and a vibe that speaks to the upper end of the sport. You don’t get that at most local hills.
I’d say don’t get mad at Ikon. I’d say get mad at the processes here in the states that have limited skiing to the same few areas that were developed in the 1960s and 70s. Yes I know there’s been small expansions here and there but when was the last time a really meaningful increase in ski terrain happened at a place like Jackson? How about a new ski area? (Silverton doesn’t really count for the ikon crowd.)
Yes there’s been infill and some small “pod” expansion (accessing terrain that was a short walk prior to the “expansion”) at various ski areas but when was the last time an area said, let’s push a lift to the next ridge or valley over and increase access and terrain threefold?
There are what, maybe a dozen areas in the US and maybe 2 dozen in North America that have true raw alpine terrain?
I think it’s a scarcity issue that has been masked by high cost of entry. Ikon has really knocked down the barriers to that entry.
Switzerland was really eye opening to me, for what skiing could be.
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10-01-2019, 09:23 AM #2733
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10-01-2019, 09:33 AM #2734
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10-01-2019, 09:39 AM #2735
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10-01-2019, 09:58 AM #2736
I think this is an excellent point. As a CO guy, we just don't have that much truly excellent steep terrain. Ikon CO doesn't really have it, except for stuff like Highlands Bowl, Basin, some very limited stuff at Copper, WP Cirque maybe - but essentially none of it is lift served - it's limited and you hike for it. That's probably good, because with a lift Highlands Bowl, for example, would change dramatically, but the point is that given a choice this type of terrain is what my entire family would choose to ski. That's the terrain we get out of bed for. So a week at JH or Alta/Bird is heaven - you can get into that stuff nonstop. Honestly, it's not even really the challenge of it as much as being in those raw places where you feel like you are in the mountains, and that it's super steep, and it feels like there are consequences. When it goes from an activity to a sport.
So some skiers are drawn to these places like we are. I realize that most people on the hill don't have the skill level to ski these spots, but the folks that can't ski it well still gravitate towards these areas because they want to be part of it (and to show they were there on instagram.)
And yeah, for the same reason a lift would forever alter up Highlands Bowl, hoards flocking to Corbett's so they can say they skidded into it, or Cheyenne, or the stuff off Pepi's, deeply changes those spots also due to the increased traffic.
There's just more and more folks looking for a certain alpine experience, and there isn't that much of it to go around. And at Jackson and Alta/Bird you don't need to earn it, you just ride a lift to it.
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10-01-2019, 10:02 AM #2737
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10-01-2019, 10:19 AM #2738
This ^^^^ 100%
So many ikoners in over their head on terrain they never should have been on. "This is only a single black????" Yessir, now please don't take your skis off on the steep runs, plz thnx.
Asking if their pass gets a discount at every bar/restaurant/retailer they go to, even when said small business is clearly not part of the resort.
Constantly loudly comparing the pros and cons of their ski day and resort experience to every other resort they've ever been to.
We live in these silly mountain towns because the skiing is good and real and steep (not ungodly crowded or boringly flat),
because we love supporting our friends' and families' small businesses that supplement the larger resort (and know that 'hook-ups' do actually come out of someone's bottom line),
and because, go figure, we actually really really like it here precisely because it's not like anywhere else.
We're glad you're here, have a good time, but now please have some class and act like a decent human. If not, that's what CO is for
It can't be stressed enough, we're all here because we're not all there.I think the potato gun proved the stability.
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10-01-2019, 10:33 AM #2739
^dick punch
crab in my shoe mouth
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10-01-2019, 11:39 AM #2740
Regarding big expansions at major high alpine resorts in the USA: Isn't the problem mostly that many of these resorts are on leased FS land and/or bordering wilderness? As some else said, even if places like BS/JH got permission for large terrain expansions the actual RE development possibilities would be little to none. They see no point in terrain expansion if they can't put 120 condos at the base of every new lift.
In Europe it seems its more of a free for all, no? Like if said company want to spend the money to put a crazy lift up some crazy peak they are essentially free to do so without much, if any, red tape to jump through via land leases/purchases of rad high alpine terrain. Am I wrong here?
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10-01-2019, 11:43 AM #2741
That is what LVS is saying.
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10-01-2019, 11:45 AM #2742
Not so much the lack of regulations. Europe has plenty of those.
But "public land" is regarded very differently there. And has been seen as for the common good for millenia.
Ski lifts are more often regarded as community infrastructure investment.
Ski resorts are not often regarded as being corporations.
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10-01-2019, 11:59 AM #2743
At least in Italy, each lift is owned separately (or a group of lifts) so not really a resort. No base lodges. The owner gets some $ from the ticket sales everytime someone with some sort of pass rides it. The owner is usually a group which includes hotel and restaurant owners and others who benefit from the attraction and made the investment. Thats how all the areas can be connected, some passes are only valid so far, others like the dolomiti superski is valid all over the place.
The lift owner owns a small patch of land where the lift towers and bases sit.
Each restaurant and lodge on the mountain is owned and operated separately, often run by a manager renting it from the owner. That's why the food varies in price and quality over the mountain. They compete for skiers and different people and tastes and budgets.
No ski patrol like here, just actual police officers with snowmobile for emergency.
The biggest difference is the attitude towards the Alpine. For centuries they have grazed and logged it. It's not seen as pristine and fragile. It's just another place for people to manage sustainably for profit and pleasure. Like a farm. There are exceptions...
So no resorts, just cooperation amongst interested parties, most of whom have been in the area for generations. They don't have much of a ski bum culture. Also not much of a condo, make a quick buck in speculation stuff.
Sent from my SM-G960U1 using TapatalkI <heart> hot tele-moms
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10-01-2019, 12:13 PM #2744
Any Ikon-holding mags wanna go in on a rental house near Crystal for MLK weekend?
#partoftheproblem
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10-01-2019, 12:19 PM #2745
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10-01-2019, 12:22 PM #2746
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10-01-2019, 03:36 PM #2747
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10-01-2019, 03:37 PM #2748
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10-01-2019, 03:57 PM #2749
Not particularly no.
More a "if we small communities, businesses, private & public land owners, local, regional and national governments work in agreement that a thriving ski area is good for the local economy and residents.. we actually can"
Here we have the Forest Service licencing land use to an ever bigger duopoly for pennies.
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10-01-2019, 04:04 PM #2750
Last edited by Not bunion; 10-01-2019 at 04:38 PM.
I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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