Water 2018

[Rideski]

Capetown looking parched. Day zero eminent.
Can someone figureout efficient desalination already?
We've got an entire team of multifaceted dentists with extra time on their hands.

[KQ]

Odessa Washington is drying up too:

Diminishing water supply threatens E. Washington farmers

[zartagen]

Good point, KQ. It isn't real if it isn't happening in America.

This came up at work and a co-worker seriously said that they should just use ocean water. Just that easy.

[WTF is dat]

That story about Cape Town is crazy. Looks more and more likely that they will run out of water. That is insane! What are people going to do ?

I am sure that this type of situation is going to become more and more common. Shit, I am worried about the water supply for the western US this summer if we don’t get some serious snowfall soon.

[SkiBall]

It's not a crisis unless it hits an area of "importance". It is really sad that the level of importance given to all this has been been stalled. Maybe they are trying to figure out a way to de-salinate sea water while working around all the toxic as well as inert everlasting crap that is in said sea water.
The Israelis are the experts on this stuff. I have a big book I have yet to tackle that goes through it. Israel had a crisis of lack of water, and through innovations now run at a surplus. Or at least ran at a surplus at some point after.

[Mazderati]

Doesn't (expensive) desalinization already exist at some smaller scale?

[SkiBall]

Doesn't (expensive) desalinization already exist at some smaller scale?

I think San Diego has implemented it in some way.

[KQ]

It's not a crisis unless it hits an area of "importance". It is really sad that the level of importance given to all this has been been stalled. Maybe they are trying to figure out a way to de-salinate sea water while working around all the toxic as well as inert everlasting crap that is in said sea water.
The Israelis are the experts on this stuff. I have a big book I have yet to tackle that goes through it. Israel had a crisis of lack of water, and through innovations now run at a surplus. Or at least ran at a surplus at some point after.

Seawater desalination in Australia


Australia is the driest inhabitable continent on Earth and its installed desalination capacity is around 1% of the total world’s total. Until a few decades ago, Australia met its demands for water by drawing freshwater from dams and water catchments. As a result of the water supply crisis during the severe 1997–2009 drought state governments began building desalination plants that purify seawater using reverse osmosis technology.

Although the Australia's first desalination plant dates from 1903 and several more operated during the 20th century, the first modern large-scale desalination plant was the Kwinana plant in Perth, completed in November 2006. Over 30 plants are currently operating across the country. Many plants are utilizing nearby wind or wave farms to use renewable energy and reduce operating costs, and solar powered desalination units are used for remote communities.

[SkiBall]

Got both of these last year. The 4.0 one is pretty daunting, but will be reading both at some point. So many books to read.

[evdog]

I think San Diego has implemented it in some way.

A desal plant came online in Carlsbad a couple years ago. I think it supplies 7-10% of the County's water and San Diego is under contract to buy much of that water for decades, and at a much higher cost than existing water sources. Ironically, not only did we soon have the wettest winter in many years which filled up reservoirs but San Diego's water storage was already at near capacity due to good long term planning and water conservation - last winter the city was getting close to having to dump fresh water into the ocean because everything was at capacity.

The next development is supposedly going to be treating sewage water to turn it into drinking water. But that is in part because the city doesn't have a proper waste treatment plant and is dumping partially treated effluent into the ocean. But EPA waivers are no longer certain. Toilet to tap would solve that problem and provide drinking water at a lesser cost than desal. Sounds kinda gross but they already do this in Orange county.

[twodogs]

Yea, I'll stay in New England. Thanks.

[goldengatestinx]

I helped install the interpretative displays at the desal plant in El Paso. It's a pretty cool process. And way energy intensive. The power needed to push the water through the filters is seriously high.

Then there's the issue of where to dump the salt and material pulled from the water. El Paso pipes it into the desert and then underground if I remember correctly.

[goldengatestinx]

A desal plant came online in Carlsbad a couple years ago. I think it supplies 7-10% of the County's water and San Diego is under contract to buy much of that water for decades, and at a much higher cost than existing water sources. Ironically, not only did we soon have the wettest winter in many years which filled up reservoirs but San Diego's water storage was already at near capacity due to good long term planning and water conservation - last winter the city was getting close to having to dump fresh water into the ocean because everything was at capacity.

The next development is supposedly going to be treating sewage water to turn it into drinking water. But that is in part because the city doesn't have a proper waste treatment plant and is dumping partially treated effluent into the ocean. But EPA waivers are no longer certain. Toilet to tap would solve that problem and provide drinking water at a lesser cost than desal. Sounds kinda gross but they already do this in Orange county.

Seems it won't be long before CA builds a Soylent Green plant. Yea Cali.

[From_the_NEK]

Yea, I'll stay in New England. Thanks.

Although, even just as recently as 2016, most of New England went through a very dry spell (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/09/1...gland-drought/). It was pretty ridiculous how much push-back there was on conservation efforts even as reservoirs were sucked dry. I think the general feeling was "this is New England, it is going to rain eventually". And eventually it did. Most of the time NE runs a large surplus of water. Too bad it can't be shared.

It seems like precipitation in many regions is slowly becoming longer stretches feast or famine. It is hard to prepare for both although preparing for famine is probably more important. The problem with water is that there is only so much that can be saved during the feast to get through the famine. As aquifers dry up, and there is no water to replace what has been removed, the buffer of water supply they provide during dry stretches is going to disappear and the problem of no water in some places is going to get even worse.

On a global level, at some point are we going to start seeing human migration patterns of people moving away from the expanding waterless areas until a sustainable population level is reached in those areas. Or is the populous going to demand that technology and tax dollars fix the problem (and probably make it worse in the long term)?

[old goat]

I helped install the interpretative displays at the desal plant in El Paso. It's a pretty cool process. And way energy intensive. The power needed to push the water through the filters is seriously high.

Then there's the issue of where to dump the salt and material pulled from the water. El Paso pipes it into the desert and then underground if I remember correctly.

As far as the energy the answer is obvious--cheap Chinese solar. Oh wait . . .

On a global level, at some point are we going to start seeing human migration patterns of people moving away from the expanding waterless areas until a sustainable population level is reached in those areas. Or is the populous going to demand that technology and tax dollars fix the problem (and probably make it worse in the long term)?

At some point? The African refugees who have been flooding Europe are fleeing the spreading Sahara, among other things. People don't think that the influx of immigrants is due to drought because drought is two or three steps removed from the proximate reason people emigrate but it's there. As the shithole countries get hotter and drier there will be increasing migration pressure that will eventually overwhelm the wetter, richer countries.

[glademaster]

Too bad it can't be shared.

Going to have to vehemently agree to disagree with you there. Transporting water from areas of relative plenty to those of relative scarcity is what got many parts of the western US into the trouble they're in today. Keep every drop possible in the basins where it falls.

[Boomer28]

Going to have to vehemently agree to disagree with you there. Transporting water from areas of relative plenty to those of relative scarcity is what got many parts of the western US into the trouble they're in today. Keep every drop possible in the basins where it falls.

Isn't it technically illegal in CO to do rainwater capture? Reason being is the runoff is all technically spoken for by downstream water rights holders?

[zartagen]

Isn't it technically illegal in CO to do rainwater capture? Reason being is the runoff is all technically spoken for by downstream water rights holders?

It was recently legalized for up to 110 gallons at a time.

[rideit]

Just wait until the glaciers all thaw. First we will have floods, and then wars.

[Dantheman]

Can someone figureout efficient desalination already?

One of many problems that viable fusion power would solve. Not happening until then, though.

The next development is supposedly going to be treating sewage water to turn it into drinking water. But that is in part because the city doesn't have a proper waste treatment plant and is dumping partially treated effluent into the ocean. But EPA waivers are no longer certain. Toilet to tap would solve that problem and provide drinking water at a lesser cost than desal. Sounds kinda gross but they already do this in Orange county.

Did not know that about SD's wastewater treatment, but not shocked. Municipalities can get away with murder on some environmental stuff sometimes. Wastewater reclaim definitely sounds gross, but with proper treatment it can be cleaner than a high-country stream.

Transporting water from areas of relative plenty to those of relative scarcity is what got many parts of the western US into the trouble they're in today.

Hefty federal subsidies--"welfare water"--didn't help either, nor did the the very unfortunate timing of the flow studies used in negotiation of the Colorado River Compact.

[MataPaw]

One of many problems that viable fusion power would solve. Not happening until then, though.



Did not know that about SD's wastewater treatment, but not shocked. Municipalities can get away with murder on some environmental stuff sometimes. Wastewater reclaim definitely sounds gross, but with proper treatment it can be cleaner than a high-country stream.



Hefty federal subsidies--"welfare water"--didn't help either, nor did the the very unfortunate timing of the flow studies used in negotiation of the Colorado River Compact.

Shit. The whole idea of a bureau of reclamation also certainly didn’t help. Cadillac desert is fairly dated but an interesting look at the
western water issues.

[summit]

Desalination is insanely electricity intensive, but it works. Desal has always been a great candidate to pair with a nuclear plant... very steady and predictable long term load.

The next development is supposedly going to be treating sewage water to turn it into drinking water. But that is in part because the city doesn't have a proper waste treatment plant and is dumping partially treated effluent into the ocean. But EPA waivers are no longer certain. Toilet to tap would solve that problem and provide drinking water at a lesser cost than desal. Sounds kinda gross but they already do this in Orange county.

Inland we cannot dump our waste into the "undrinkable" sea.

We treat our sewage to the point where the water going back into a river from a waste treatment plant is generally much cleaner than what was already in the river.

It will be interesting to see if we can separate our grey water from our black water in future developments and construction as this eases treatment and reuse considerations.

[Danno]

Wastewater reclaim definitely sounds gross, but with proper treatment it can be cleaner than a high-country stream.

A tremendous number of communities have water that was effluent at some point. Unless your water is direct from mountain runoff with no intervening municipality, solely from rainwater, or from an underground aquifer that is not recharged by surface water (in which case you have a host of other issues), you are drinking poop water.

[basinbeater]

Isn't it technically illegal in CO to do rainwater capture? Reason being is the runoff is all technically spoken for by downstream water rights holders?

I think this is against the law in UT for the same reason.

[Dantheman]

Cadillac desert is fairly dated but an interesting look at the western water issues.

Cadillac Desert is more relevant than ever. It should be required reading in high schools.

Unless your water is direct from mountain runoff with no intervening municipality

East side Salt Lake valley in the hizzouse!

You are most certainly correct though and most people are decidedly ignorant on that fact. Still, WWTP effluent that enters a river, flows some distance where dilution and natural attenuation occurs, and is then re-drawn and treated in a DWTP, is a different beast than WWTP effluent that goes directly back into a drinking water system.

I think this is against the law in UT for the same reason.

Legal now, but you have to submit something to the State and are limited to a couple rain barrels.