Losing my shit here re: intuitions

[Timberridge]

Or HV if you need the extra warmth. Those things are warm.

[XXX-er]

back in the day some body asked me if intuiton liners would be good for him cuz his T3's were 2 sizes too big and I told buddy that they do not take up space in a boot shell that is too BIG ... that has not changed

And anybody remember Garmont G-fit liners? they were even crazy worse to fit, I couldn't even wear mine for > 5 minutes, my ski bud was selling them at the time and the rep told him to go down one size from what people thot felt good at the try on and bake em

[emcee]

ok ok one more question about heat shaping intuition liners---

I have custom footbeds (Buck's heel loc system from olympic bootfitters). Do I run the risk of deforming the footbeds if I heat them up with the liners? (he shapes them using a rice cooker, so boiling water will make them floppy)

Should I take the footbeds out, heat up the liner, then carefully put them back in before tightening the boots?

I'm really good at ruining expensive things, which is why I'm trying to be careful here.

[auvgeek]

General workflow that I've seen used in a number of shops. Best results with 1-2 people helping.

Footbed, toe caps, and foam padding (wherever you need space: 6th toe, instep, etc) taped onto bare foot (masking tape)
Thin to medium-thick sock over ^^
Liners pulled out of oven and put onto foot with no creases
Big pantyhose, included nylon "sock", or thin plastic bag over liner/foot combo (this helps it all slide nicely into the shell)
Whole shebang into boot
Lift heel, pull liner upwards towards calf, and slam heel down (reduces heel wrinkles and sets heel back into pocket)
Buckle boot moderately tight
Stand with toes on 2" block of wood until liners cooled. Stay still and don't flex into the boot or lever off the back.

[Norseman]

^ yup.

Liner/foot in bag not required (never did that in my shop daze) but sounds like a nice way to keep em straight.

[Timberridge]

^^ Put your orthotics in carefully after the bake--you have time. Or, some like to put the orthotic on the naked foot and put the sock over foot+orthotic--I never had much luck with this one as I found it slips a bit more.

You don't mention the liner you have but some liners have 9mm foam in the footbed so they create their own "footbed" when you mold them (Powerwrap.) Its actually a pretty good footbed once it cools when compared to a stock liner with removable stock insole.

Some don't. (Prowrap).

If they do, you have to be careful that you don't move your foot around much from side to side when molding or the orthotic can end up tilted a bit. I prefer the Prowrap with an orthotic as it can get a bit stuffy with the 9mm of foam + orthotic in there.

[bodywhomper]

I have always taped the footbed to the foot, the a thin sock over the foot/footbed. Resulted in no slippage. Been doing it that way successfully since the late 90's.

[XXX-er]

I have always taped the footbed to the foot, the a thin sock over the foot/footbed. Resulted in no slippage. Been doing it that way successfully since the late 90's.

this^^ tape it to your foot with masking tape & cover wioth a thin sock

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

All good suggestions. I am gonna re-bake and do the plastic bag over the liner thing then slide it into the shell. I have been doing the toe cap + gauze/padding taped in key areas on my bare foot. Also gonna try it with no orthotic since my biggest complaint was never feeling "deep" enough into the heel despite pounding the boot on the floor when its still hot.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Wow, big difference. Baked at 225 for about 15 minutes. My oven sucks and although it was 225 when I put the liner in, it would hover around 205-210 the whole time. Liner was nice and hot, but not super puffed up. Used turkey bags as the liner over the liner. No creases at all. Nice clean fold at the seam and seems are dead center again.

[swissiphic]

If you need HV liner you bought the wrong boots IMHO.

Disagree. For specific lower volume thin feet/ankles even with a tighter shell fit, the h.v.'s fill the gaps nicely and are warmer than the m.v.'s. Bake 'em hot and buckle snug. Worked for me since 1993; shell after shell, liner after liner...

[Adrgha]

Wow, big difference. Baked at 225 for about 15 minutes. My oven sucks and although it was 225 when I put the liner in, it would hover around 205-210 the whole time. Liner was nice and hot, but not super puffed up. Used turkey bags as the liner over the liner. No creases at all. Nice clean fold at the seam and seems are dead center again.

Did the creases from the first failed mold go away when you reheated them?

How many times can you remold Intuitions?

[johnmtl11]

How many times can you remold Intuitions?

The liners will remold as many times as you want, but you can't regain liner volume. They might puff out initially from the heat but once the foam compresses I've never been able to expand it again.

When someone molds one time or two times, it doesn't really say much about how the use ability for another mold. If I was going to say buy a used liner and remold it, I would want to know what the persons shell fit was in the boots they came out of. I'd also look at closeup pics to see areas that were not compressed as much relative to the molded areas.

Example my Full Tilts, between the back spine and the tongue, up at the top near the booster strap the liner doesn't compress against anything. So you could use that almost like an initial size reference that you can compare to the lower leg area of the liner. I can upload a pic tonight of mine so you can see what I'm talking about.

Here is liner in the shell


Here is liner out of the shell. You can see the area at the top center where there is no compression, and how much the lower half is compressed. I have a 12mm shell fit, and I tightened basically in the middle of the buckle range when molding.



If I were to remold, I could further compress the liner but not the other way around. If you're remolding to gain more room in the toe box shouldn't be a problem, but if you're buying used boots or used liners sometimes it doesn't matter if it's only molded once or twice. If it was cranked down and the foam is very compressed you might have too little to work with to get a tight fit.


OP good save on the liner remold. Sometimes you can't get the creases out. The first time I did a mold I bucked very tight and had creases where the overlap liner fits behind the tongue, two parallel creases like where shoe lace holes would line up. Didn't affect the way they skied but I would describe mine as a only a crease and not a fold like your originals looked. The pics above are my second set of liners and I didn't crank down as much this time around, but enough to get the liner to mold to the shell.

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[Vt-Freeheel]

Wow, big difference. Baked at 225 for about 15 minutes. My oven sucks and although it was 225 when I put the liner in, it would hover around 205-210 the whole time. Liner was nice and hot, but not super puffed up. Used turkey bags as the liner over the liner. No creases at all. Nice clean fold at the seam and seems are dead center again.

[ZomblibulaX]

Generally don’t chime in on internet bootfitting threads, but this is good info for everyone:

General workflow that I've seen used in a number of shops. Best results with 1-2 people helping.

Footbed, toe caps, and foam padding (wherever you need space: 6th toe, instep, etc) taped onto bare foot (masking tape)
Thin to medium-thickness sock over ^^
Liners pulled out of oven and put onto foot with no creases
Big pantyhose, included nylon "sock", or thin plastic bag over liner/foot combo (this helps it all slide nicely into the shell)
Whole shebang into boot
Lift heel, pull liner upwards towards calf, and slam heel down (reduces heel wrinkles)
Tighten boot moderately tight
Stand with toes on 2" block of wood until liners cooled.

Notes to add:

-buckle your top two buckles first, then flex forward into the boot before buckling the bottom two. Helps to get your heel back and centered without deforming the liner.

-stand the fuck still with your knees slightly bent while the liners are cooling. Wiggling around makes more room where you don’t want it.

-toe caps help pack out the toebox, but also push you back in to the heel cup. They’re important if you want proper heel hold.

-turkey bag/water and rice sock methods only work well with pre-molded liners, i.e. dalbellos, since they have already been molded to the inside of the shell. Aftermarket Intuitions are designed to be heated from both sides simultaneously, hence the convection oven, so that the liner can mold to your foot and the shell.

My shop charges $25 to mold your intuitions. Proper equipment in a controlled environment, and if they need to be rebaked, tweaked etc. it’s on the house. I often question the sensibility of doing it at home when you’re only saving very little money (people who live in the boonies or south of I-40 excepted).

[Timberridge]

Disagree. For specific lower volume thin feet/ankles even with a tighter shell fit, the h.v.'s fill the gaps nicely and are warmer than the m.v.'s. Bake 'em hot and buckle snug. Worked for me since 1993; shell after shell, liner after liner...

You're in a boot that's too big for your ankles, and you take that up with liner volume. I believe that's the point I was making.

[jackattack]

For some people, every boot is too big for their ankles.

[knarrrr]

On a related note, does anyone know if heated boot dryers are okay to use with an Intuition liner? I have both a PowerWrap and ProTour liner, and the manual for these travel boot dryers indicates that the operating temp ranges from 149-176* F.

Is that too warm for regular use? I can still use these in my bike shoes for monsoon season, but was hoping to use them on the ski boots as well.

[johnmtl11]

My shop charges $25 to mold your intuitions. Proper equipment in a controlled environment, and if they need to be rebaked, tweaked etc. it’s on the house. I often question the sensibility of doing it at home when you’re only saving very little money (people who live in the boonies or south of I-40 excepted).

For $25 that's definitely worth it for the expertise and controlled environment. I currently don't own a car so everything is a pain. I'm also the type that would roll the dice and do it on my own with research to learn a skill.


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[swissiphic]

You're in a boot that's too big for your ankles

LOL!!!

[swissiphic]

For some people, every boot is too big for their ankles.

Thank you. You obviously know what time it is.

[Adrgha]

The liners will remold as many times as you want, but you can't regain liner volume. They might puff out initially from the heat but once the foam compresses I've never been able to expand it again.

When someone molds one time or two times, it doesn't really say much about how the use ability for another mold. If I was going to say buy a used liner and remold it, I would want to know what the persons shell fit was in the boots they came out of. I'd also look at closeup pics to see areas that were not compressed as much relative to the molded areas.

If I were to remold, I could further compress the liner but not the other way around. If you're remolding to gain more room in the toe box shouldn't be a problem, but if you're buying used boots or used liners sometimes it doesn't matter if it's only molded once or twice. If it was cranked down and the foam is very compressed you might have too little to work with to get a tight fit.

Thanks, good info. I recently replaced the stock liners in my MTN Labs with about 80 days on them with Pro Tours, and the heel slip is gone. No more blisters. Nice and snug.

However, I was thinking of remolding them for width with padding as I get a numbness sensation on the outside of my foot after a few hours. Would it be sufficient just using rice or the turkey bag method since I only need to remold that part of the liner? Or should I just throw them in the oven again?

[swissiphic]

I often question the sensibility of doing it at home when you’re only saving very little money (people who live in the boonies or south of I-40 excepted).

Imo, it's not only the money savings (over decades of diy) but time savings. How many times does a guy wanna dedicate the 2 hours or whatever it is to commute from home to shop, do the fitting and repeat if the result isn't satisfactory. After a few decades of liner molding/boot fitting/shell punching time suck I just got sick and tired of it...if I added up all those trips to the shop it would probably equal multiple weeks worth of lost ski days. (liner molding/remolding/shell punching/repunching/re re punching/re re repunching, etc...)

Buy yer own equipment and D.I.Y., imo.

Convection over plus oven thermometer at Can Tire = (on sale) 75 bucks.

Intuition toe caps = 10 bucks +/-

For making extra padding for toe caps/bunions/etc; automotive gasket making sheet cork at Can Tire = 15 bucks.

el cheapo hot air gun for spot molding/tweaking = 25ish bucks at Can Tire (on sale)


One time investment = intuition molding remolding/tweaking for life

[swissiphic]

On a related note, does anyone know if heated boot dryers are okay to use with an Intuition liner? I have both a PowerWrap and ProTour liner, and the manual for these travel boot dryers indicates that the operating temp ranges from 149-176* F.

Is that too warm for regular use? I can still use these in my bike shoes for monsoon season, but was hoping to use them on the ski boots as well.

From my experience my intuitions are actually quite sensitive to drying with any sort of heat at all. For example, putting them over a heat vent for forced air heat in the home or suspended above an electric heat register. I find that the puff out a noticeable amount and boot fit is tighter the morning after.

To mitigate this I moved to the ambient air high power diy dry all yer gear carboard box/summer circulating fan system. Work like a (not hot) hot damn.

[Skidog]

Imo, it's not only the money savings but time savings. How many times does a guy wanna dedicate the 2 hours or whatever it is to commute from home to shop, do the fitting and repeat if the result isn't satisfactory. After a few decades of liner molding/boot fitting/shell punching time suck I just got sick and tire of it...all those trips to the shop suck.

Buy yer own equipment and D.I.Y., imo.

Convection over plus oven thermometer at Can Tire = (on sale) 75 bucks.

Intuition toe caps = 10 bucks +/-

For making extra padding for toe caps/bunions/etc; automotive gasket making sheet cork at Can Tire = 15 bucks.

el cheapo hot air gun for spot molding/tweaking = 25ish bucks at Can Tire (on sale)


One time investment = intuition molding re/molding/tweaking for life

Canadian tire is an interesting store. That's for sure.

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