Water running into home from 0 lot line property next door, WWMD?

[MTT]

We live on a steep slope under Donner Ridge--a mountain that burned (thanks Caltrans) in the early 60's, was never reforested, and drains through 3 big culverts under I80 into our little subdivision. Originally there were 17 natural drainage channels. The water goes through the culverts where it goes various ways, depending on the state of repair of the culverts, which bend, and the lateral ditches they drain into.

It then hits the dirt road the PUD bulldozed across the hillside, through a wetland and with no provision for controlling runoff, which goes wherever it feels like, which varies from year to year. It then hits the lots above the road behind our house, where various owners have built houses which divert the runoff again.

Then it hits the little public road above our house (which the town refuses to maintain), where various homeowners and utilities have filled in the ditches on the uphill side of the road. Finally it goes across the road, flooding houses on the downhill side--again different properties different years. So far not ours. In addition, when Truckee improved the drainage along Donner Lake Rd they diverted the water into our sub. Various homeowners on the downhill side have built berms along the road above to protect their houses (and send the water to the neighbor next door).

Finally, after big storms, the water carries rocks and dirt onto and across Donner Pass Rd into Donner Lake. Some of the houses have sustained 10's of thousands in damages. But the neighbors can't seem to get their shit together to sue, which is unfortunately the only way this will be settled. Fortunately, I don't think there's enough soil on top of the bedrock to create a major mudslide, but I could be wrong.

Attachment 221290

Is your place in Donner a second home or your primary residence?

curious I don't many people who live there full time. I have stayed there in week long rentals for Family reunions and such.

[old goat]

I've always wondered why that slope had no replanting done.

Caltrans workers building I80 set the fire, cooking lunch I believe. They apparently replanted some of the burn--towards Tahoe Donner, but not the slope in the picture--I presume because of money. Same reason 17 natural drainage courses turned into 3 culverts. There has been at least one settlement a neighbor of our got from Caltrans, years ago.

Is your place in Donner a second home or your primary residence?

curious I don't many people who live there full time. I have stayed there in week long rentals for Family reunions and such.

Primary. About a quarter to a third of the houses in our sub--I've never counted--are owner or long term renter full time occupied.
(When I say sub--the subdivision was filed in 1923, no one seems to know when the earliest houses were built (searchable of course). The first might have been a long-vanished hotel on the west end of the subdivision. Houses have been intermittenly spec or custom built ever since by individual contractors and owner-builders.)

The fact that most of the houses are empty most of the time or occupied by renters obviously makes it hard to get people together. We've been lucky that so far the seasonal rivers have avoided us. I'm surprised that downhill owners haven't sued uphill owners who have diverted water courses. The worst damage last winter was to a 3 year old house built by a retired social worker--lovely, gentle woman. Her house itself was ok but the hillside next to her house was washed away, exposing her gas lines--fortunately none broke--and sewer lines. The runoff came from an uphill neighbor who diverted runoff when she built her house a while back and filled in the ditch in front of her house for parking.

Part of the problem has been that places that flood one year are dry the next, as the PUD road and the hillside itself are continually remodeled by the huge volume of runoff from Donner Ridge. Makes it hard to come up with solutions.

Last year the diverted runoff from Donner Lake Rd--Truckee-owned--washed out the west end of the road behind our house (West Reed) which is one way. The town refused to acknowledge responsibility and people figured it was cheaper to fix it themselves than to sue. Short sighted IMO.

[Shredhead]

plus we have a fantastic relationship on that property line which is priceless.

Talk to the neighbor, offer to pay for the project but the cheapest solution is on his side of the property line (would have to re-build the laundry room with a proper wall otherwise). If they are like me they’ll be happy to help. If they are like my fuckwad uphill neighbor they will not. You get what you deserve in life ultimately.

Amen.

Sucks to have shitty neighbors.

[TNKen]

Depends on the state. In TN, you probably have a case. In Tennessee, the diversion would constitute a nuisance and you would have a case.

In Virginia, you probably don't. Virginia is what is called a "common enemy" state with regard to runoff. You can do almost anything except pipe it directly into someone's home.

So, without knowledge of the type of state you are in, ignore the prognosticators.

[old goat]

Regardless of the state--if it goes to court the only winners are the lawyers and the expert hydrologists.
Much as I dislike dealing with the building dept--we've had a parking pad and a house and parking pad built above us and in both cases we stayed on the building dept to make sure there were swales, drains etc. Once it's build it's a lot harder to do anything. Obviously that doesn't help the OP's daughter.

[GeezerSteve]

Wrong that California law requires property to hold its own water.

WA has common enemy rule, subject to exceptions, e.g., unnatural collection and release. I've handled several surface water disputes. They can get nasty. Expert witnesses can come to very different conclusions re where the water came from and how it got there.

I'm not a CA atty so can't offer an opinion re the legal standard. I recall reading or hearing that CA uses a reasonable care tort analysis re adjacent landowners and surface water. Maybe that's changed or been tempered. And it might be modified by local codes, CCR's, etc.

Whatever the applicable standard: I'd start by ascertaining whether the neighbor got a permit to construct the offending slab and/or broke a CCR provision (if there are CCRs).

[old goat]

I know that snow that sheds from your roof in CA has to stay on your property. A few years ago Truckee increased side setbacks from 5' to 10'. We have 5' set backs. To do additions we had to agree to a deed restriction that we have to have a non shedding roof.
My understanding is that you're not required to retain water coming from uphill but you can't divert from it's original channel.*
I would guess that liv2ski's daughter would have to prove that the water flooding her laundry room comes from the neighbor's pad and not from rain landing on her property. That might be tough unless there's a clear surface water channel that is diverted onto her property by the pad.

*When we added a bathroom onto the back of our house we had to have calculations done as to the amount of runoff from the roof. We were required to have our french drains end in dry wells. We were also required by the environmental code to have armored drip lines--18 in deep drain rock filled ditches under the drip line to absorb the runoff. The building dept manager thought that this was ridiculous--that the last thing you want to do in an area that has a huge amount of ground water, springs, etc is put more water in the ground next to your foundation or slab. So we put in fake armored drip lines---pressure treated 2x4 from per spec but just an inch or so of drain rock.

Properties are required to have swales , ditches, or open top culverts on the downhill side to capture runoff from the property and direct it into culverts. In our neighborhood all the water is theoretically collected in ditches on the north side of Donner pass Rd and then goes through sediment traps before it goes under the road into the lake. I don't see how would be possible for a lot on a hill as steep as ours to retain all the water that lands on it; the idea seems to be that it has to be discharged in a controlled manner that doesn't cause harm to the neighbors and watershed. All of this is in theory of course. It doesn't always seem to work that way.

For years people were allowed to put in driveways and parking pads that filled in the ditches and diverted water onto the down hill neighbors. The town doesn't care unless someone complains during the building process. As long as they collect their encroachment fee.