Where to spend a season in Alps? Have spent seasons in Whistler and Verbier

[comish]

My only hang up with Serre Che would be the snow. Isn't it kinda fickle? From my limited study it just seems as though that area, while awesome in good snow, just doesn't historically get as much snow as farther north, E-berg, Andermatt, or Arlberg...

[Benny Profane]

You might consider Arabba in the Dolomites. If cost and food/wine were driving factors, I'd say go to Italy. As you don't mention them, this may not be the right area. The on-piste is fairly tame, but the infrastructure is great and you don't need a car or bus. And the access to steep, side country couloirs is pretty great. They're also having a good snow year so lots of midwinter and spring couloirs are skiing now. The north side of the Sella ronda is great too (crazy food and on-mountain restaurant scene is likely best in Europe) but a bit posher (not much.) You will likely be bored if you don't want to hike 5 to 30 minutes.
Superb for ambiance and kids. Superb for side and backcountry.

Did you sleep in Arraba? If so, are the lifts walkable?

I was just there in November, just driving around. I didn't sleep in Arraba, I was six miles up the road towards Cortina in a small, beautiful village with all meals in my inn. They told me they had a shuttle down to the lifts, and, it was cheap and nice, but, I think I'd like walkable and or skin in/out. There was already snow on the ground and they were blowing like hell. Incredibly beautiful place, and I'm sure I'd have fun if it snowed. If I travel solo, should I hire a guide to show me this off piste stuff?

[hafjell]

Benny, haven’t slept in Arraba but have driven through twice. Lifts definitely walkable on both the Sella and south sides. Much better ski access than the peripheral towns. And much better odds socially for solo travelers to stay on the Sella. Tough to beat Arraba’s proximity to the Passo Pordoi lifts up onto the Sella Massif. That said, I’d head to Cortina if you were trying to have a real night life (and St. Anton if you wanted serious piste, off piste and nightlife/apres). I recommend the Sella portion of the Dolomites if you like skiing from town to town and you want legit couloir skiing within easy side country access. Plus food. All at sub CH costs.
As for the guide question, why not? The guide will be able to gauge your ability and tell you about other couloirs or descents that make sense. Everyone goes there to ski the Valscura; not everyone is ready. Also, Alta Badia guides out of Corvara runs a pickup group on most days for €100 or so. You could do the Val Mezdi or something steeper and get a feel for the place at 1/3 of the normal price.


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[Benny Profane]

Cool. The only night life I need is a meal and a few drinks. St. Anton is on the list, big time. But, man, the Arraba area I drove around is the prettiest mountain scenery I have ever seen, outside of just a few vantage points in the Tetons and some stuff near Telluride. And, I'll bet the food is awesome, too.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

If you're looking for a pure skiing trip, Benny, I'm not sure skiing around the Sella would be your cup of tea. In general the Dolomites are best for lazy-ass groomer skiing and easy access ski mountaineering. There are lots of mellow groomers and easy to access steeps where falling would be very, very bad. Mandatory rappells mid-line are fairly common. Much of the in between terrain requires skinning or someone to show you how to get there. And there just isn't that much of it compared to other areas.

What I think you may well love, however, is a combination hitting some of the obvious moderate routes around Pordoi, Arraba and Marmolada as well as sleeping in a bunch of the better Rifugios in the region (Lagazoi, which has the best views and some easy-access off piste, and Fuciade, which will serve you one of the better meals of your life, are my favorites). Moving from valley to valley using only ski lifts (and an occasional shuttle bus) is very easy. This might mean the skiing on some days might be a bit dull, but you'll eat wonderful food and sleep in beautiful, fairly cheap places. All you need to carry is some extra underwear/socks/base layers.

Edit to add: I'm under the impression that you aren't into ski touring. If you are, the Dolomites are pretty great for everyone on a good snow year like this year.

[hafjell]

If you're looking for a pure skiing trip, Benny, I'm not sure skiing around the Sella would be your cup of tea. In general the Dolomites are best for lazy-ass groomer skiing and easy access ski mountaineering. There are lots of mellow groomers and easy to access steeps where falling would be very, very bad. Mandatory rappells mid-line are fairly common. Much of the in between terrain requires skinning or someone to show you how to get there. And there just isn't that much of it compared to other areas.

What I think you may well love, however, is a combination hitting some of the obvious moderate routes around Pordoi, Arraba and Marmolada as well as sleeping in a bunch of the better Rifugios in the region (Lagazoi, which has the best views and some easy-access off piste, and Fuciade, which will serve you one of the better meals of your life, are my favorites). Moving from valley to valley using only ski lifts (and an occasional shuttle bus) is very easy. This might mean the skiing on some days might be a bit dull, but you'll eat wonderful food and sleep in beautiful, fairly cheap places. All you need to carry is some extra underwear/socks/base layers.

Edit to add: I'm under the impression that you aren't into ski touring. If you are, the Dolomites are pretty great for everyone on a good snow year like this year.

Yes. Sorry if I missed the part about wanting steep on piste. Dolomites definitely don’t provide that. The weather, offpiste and food tend to be great but the on piste terrain is mellow.


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[AmmergauerTele]

I've done Sella Ronda - on piste is a little dull but vibe in Italy is great. The Arraba area is amazing for views, pretty decent for on piste. IMO, doesn't compare to St. Anton. Now that St. Anton is connect to Lech/Zurs/Warth the amount of terrain there is mind boggling. Has everything there - groomers, steep on piste, easy off-piste, I liked the vibe. If the 90 lifts aren't enough, one valley over is Serfaus and Ischgl. If it was me I'd base out of St. Anton for a bit, then move over to Serfaus / Ischl for a few weeks. I'd have a hard time putting a number on how much terrain that is - maybe 10-15 Mammoth's, maybe more? If you get tired of Serfaus/Ischgl, then move a couple valleys over and do Solden & Hochgurgl/Obergurgl.

[Scottish_Skier]

It remains awesome but I hear things get skied out faster every year and lots of things get skied out when they are technically shut. Vallon d'Arbi and Col des Mines being the obvious ones there.

I suspect the uber strong swiss-franc means there might actually be less ski bums hoovering up the powder in CH than 10 years ago ? Especially away from the honey pots of Verbier / Zermatt <etc>

[scott_donald]

honestly best place in the world is Espace Killy...

this season for me is 7 days there, 6 In Whistler(less than 2 weeks) and 10 in AltaBird... and the best overall place is Val D'Isere...

[hafjell]

honestly best place in the world is Espace Killy...

this season for me is 7 days there, 6 In Whistler(less than 2 weeks) and 10 in AltaBird... and the best overall place is Val D'Isere...

Not arguing about the merits of Val d’Isere, but would like more details. Good elevation ensures snow? Touring? Offpiste? Food. Architecture isn’t supposed to be that great like a lot of French altitude towns. Decent vibe though?


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[scott_donald]

Not arguing about the merits of Val d’Isere, but would like more details. Good elevation ensures snow? Touring? Offpiste? Food. Architecture isn’t supposed to be that great like a lot of French altitude towns. Decent vibe though?
]

Snow elevation. - village 1850 to think the top lift is glacier 3300... the last two New Years Val has had snow where most especially 2 years ago had none at all... this year just too much for my trip only skied 4/7 days... black flag was up....
Touring - Not a big tourer but for me the side country is perfect... so much variance, being so high there is less trees around though....
Offpiste - everywhere - New Years week I did a whole morning on the same area being one of about 5 folk skiing it...
Food - lots of amazing but not cheap restaurants... fondues to steak... lots of green French specialities great atmosphere in the bars when I am there - admittedly I am a bed at 1030 when I am skiing though... Mountain restaurants vary in price but all good quality for the self service to sit down, one thing everywhere except Deer Valley no where in North America has really matched unless sitting down long lunches...
Buildings - well for France there are some lovely ones... but you are in the Alps, just go to Val over Tignes if that matters to you....
Vibe - 41% British, 39% French, 11% Scandinavian so very mixed batch....

As I said I love Val D'Isere, Whistler and Altabird; will visit them all this year - there are so many good places to ski out there but think I have found my favourite 3...

In Europe I would have Zermatt and Verbier behind Val D'ISere....

[hafjell]

Snow elevation. - village 1850 to think the top lift is glacier 3300... the last two New Years Val has had snow where most especially 2 years ago had none at all... this year just too much for my trip only skied 4/7 days... black flag was up....
Touring - Not a big tourer but for me the side country is perfect... so much variance, being so high there is less trees around though....
Offpiste - everywhere - New Years week I did a whole morning on the same area being one of about 5 folk skiing it...
Food - lots of amazing but not cheap restaurants... fondues to steak... lots of green French specialities great atmosphere in the bars when I am there - admittedly I am a bed at 1030 when I am skiing though... Mountain restaurants vary in price but all good quality for the self service to sit down, one thing everywhere except Deer Valley no where in North America has really matched unless sitting down long lunches...
Buildings - well for France there are some lovely ones... but you are in the Alps, just go to Val over Tignes if that matters to you....
Vibe - 41% British, 39% French, 11% Scandinavian so very mixed batch....

As I said I love Val D'Isere, Whistler and Altabird; will visit them all this year - there are so many good places to ski out there but think I have found my favourite 3...

In Europe I would have Zermatt and Verbier behind Val D'ISere....

Great info, thanks.
How much hiking are you doing to access good side country away from the crowds?
Any reason to choose one of the villages in V d'I over another?

[Scottish_Skier]

Great info, thanks.
How much hiking are you doing to access good side country away from the crowds?
Any reason to choose one of the villages in V d'I over another?

Val D'Isere is great...

+ massive ski area / fast lift system
+ easily accessible off piste
+ variety of powder bowls / couloirs and touring most of which isn't super extremo
+ very snow sure.

So : What there is not to like ?

- town is chock full of posh Brits. the kind of wankers who voted for Brexit and dont speak French.
- village is pleasant enough but lacks a little soul / history.
- located at end of a valley. escaping resort to somewhere smaller takes time.
- tree skiing limited.

Tignes is a cheaper than Val D'Isere but basically a collection of high rise flats at 2000m.

[nortonwhis]

Some great info here for us stateside jongs.
thanks all

[grapedrink]

Hey Grapedrink - how's it going? We skied together a few times back in the day

I'm in a pretty similar position. After doing a number of seasons in La Grave, I had 4 years of no skiing, helped produce a child, and I'm now about to do (half) a season with my family.

I've picked Serre Chevalier. A big factor in my choice are my links to La Grave, which I love and where I still have a lot of friends (tho realistically I'm not sure how much time I'll get there), but also Serre Che has excellent tree skiing, great touring right on the doorstep, plus it's a short drive to various cool small ski areas, and Italy. It's also not as bleak and desolate as some of the high altitude areas in the Alps can be.

hey how's it going briancon does make sense, the kids don't need to be challenged. monetier had some good terrain, just isn't on the same scale as verbier, but ya can always go to la grave to do something sporty.. i'll be curious to hear your post season opinion

[ADKmike]

Some great info here for us stateside jongs.
thanks all

Agreed - collecting good info for future trips.

[Gorilla]

Scottish Skier is right about Espace Killy. Provided you can avoid the English it is spectacular.

It is, though, busy and tracks fast. Lot of guiding ops, lot of ski schools specialising in off piste instruction.

Of all of the French ski factory resorts, I reckon la Plagne is probably the best. Serious vertical on many different aspects - the north face of the Bellecote is enormous. Good tree skiing also. Tends to be thought of as a flat resort for Parisian gapers hence less powder competition. See also Alpe d'Huez, basically a smaller version.


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[Buster Highmen]

I spent a month based out of Monetier Les Bains above Briancon a year after I spent a month based out of La Grave.
I liked it a lot. I'm rerererehashing what I've written several times about the Briancon area.

I've only spent a little time passing through Verbier and Val Thorens/Trois Vallees but I like Monetier better for the just being there. The alleys, the food and old bars and buildings. Briancon too is cool for architecture and history of the place. I can understand how that's not important, but I like it and I prefer that to more modern developments.

Serre Che has some good steep skiing, but I really got into skiing the larches lower down and rolling over to the Milky Way (Montgenevre/Claviere mostly) skiing a lot of good pitch pow. That plus access to the Maurienne Valley within an hour and La Grave in 30 minutes. Briancon has a ski lift museum and is big enough to have some interesting resources like that.

There's nothing like being able to walk out the door and get to a lift without a car and that's what some of 1the really big stations get you. Monetier has that in a smaller way. But the thing that sets Monetier/Briancon apart is the variety of spots to go to within an hour including Val Frejus, Val Cenis, the Milky Way (Montgenevre/Claviere/San Sicario/Sestrieres/Sauze d'Oulx/Prageleto), Bardonnecia, The Queyras (Abries/Ceillac/Molines), Vars/Risoul, Puy St. Vincent and Pelvoux. Then there's the touring in the Queyras and up in the Col du Lauteret.

I also loved the Monte Rosa the few times I've skied there. It accesses some seriously gnarly Cham quality glaciated terrain. But the towns are small and despite the old architecture and history of Alagna/Gressoney/Champoluc, I think I'd go nuts there in a season for lack of town size. Springtime options for the Tyndall or Marinelli couloirs down to Macugnaga would be the tits.

Basing out of Goeschenen or Andermatt give access to a big variety of skiing with easy train access from Disentis to Airolo. The small town might drive me nuts though but I think there's enough skiing there to satisfy any skifreak, especially when one considers the backcountry around Disentis and Andermatt and train access.

[AmmergauerTele]

I looked at rooms on VRBO and Briancon would be tough to be, especially when talking about comparing to CHE. I can't wait to go there an do multiple weeks.

IMO St.Anton complex over the Val D'Isere / Tignes. Maybe it was the "no picnic" signs that put me over the top for Val?

[Rossymcg]

Val D'Isere is great...

+ massive ski area / fast lift system
+ easily accessible off piste
+ variety of powder bowls / couloirs and touring most of which isn't super extremo
+ very snow sure.

So : What there is not to like ?

- town is chock full of posh Brits. the kind of wankers who voted for Brexit and dont speak French.
- village is pleasant enough but lacks a little soul / history.
- located at end of a valley. escaping resort to somewhere smaller takes time.
- tree skiing limited.

Tignes is a cheaper than Val D'Isere but basically a collection of high rise flats at 2000m.

this is all true but you don't need to mix with the toffy nosed cunts and the easily accessed snow sure terrain is hard to match anywhere(maybe St Anton)(I've been out to VDI earlier this month and will be going to St Anton in march . Les Arcs down the valley, La rosiere/La Thule not so far away either. when I'm ready to buy a ski apartment it will be in the espace killy

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[scott_donald]

this is all true but you don't need to mix with the toffy nosed cunts and the easily accessed snow sure terrain is hard to match anywhere(maybe St Anton)(I've been out to VDI earlier this month and will be going to St Anton in march . Les Arcs down the valley, La rosiere/La Thule not so far away either. when I'm ready to buy a ski apartment it will be in the espace killy

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agreed there....

I have now spent about 45 weeks of my life there(37 years old now) just love the place and it was our family vacation place growing up - very lucky indeed, can't imagine a year without skiing there now... even my GF has been converted... she is moaning about whistler not being as good in 10 days time... women!!!

[Rossymcg]

agreed there....

I have now spent about 45 weeks of my life there(37 years old now) just love the place and it was our family vacation place growing up - very lucky indeed, can't imagine a year without skiing there now... even my GF has been converted... she is moaning about whistler not being as good in 10 days time... women!!!

looking up the face and then over to the solaise. it's fucking magical there's spicy lines where ever you look and we've not even gone over to la fornet or tignes in this post or even considered wasting energy and time skinning

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[Scottish_Skier]

^ Don't get me wrong : Val D'Isere is a great ski resort.
Along with Verbier / Zermatt / Trois Vallees & St Anton it is one the *big* 5 Euro ski resorts.
Each of them has something for everyone.

However : the fast lift systems and commercial atmosphere of such "ski factories" can simultaneously be a blessing and a curse. On peak weeks the big resorts can get tracked out in a morning and lunch on the mountain will leave little change from 20 euros. These days (... age late 30s) I prefer not to have to elbow people out of the way on a powder day
Though if you are in your 20s and want to ski lots / party hard and chase chalet girls then any of the 5 resorts listed above are a great option. There is some fantastic off piste and fun to be had - though likely with limited shelf life.

IMHO : the great thing about the European alps is the variety of resorts (from very large -> small) within such a compact area.
The small resorts might not have 300km of identical piste and high speed lifts - but they more than make up for that in charm and fewer crowds.

[scott_donald]

looking up the face and then over to the solaise. it's fucking magical there's spicy lines where ever you look and we've not even gone over to la fornet or tignes in this post or even considered wasting energy and time skinning

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except for when the whole Bellevarde side is an avalanche!!!

^ Don't get me wrong : Val D'Isere is a great ski resort.
Along with Verbier / Zermatt / Trois Vallees & St Anton it is one the *big* 5 Euro ski resorts.
Each of them has something for everyone.

However : the fast lift systems and commercial atmosphere of such "ski factories" can simultaneously be a blessing and a curse. On peak weeks the big resorts can get tracked out in a morning and lunch on the mountain will leave little change from 20 euros. These days (... age late 30s) I prefer not to have to elbow people out of the way on a powder day
Though if you are in your 20s and want to ski lots / party hard and chase chalet girls then any of the 5 resorts listed above are a great option. There is some fantastic off piste and fun to be had - though likely with limited shelf life.

IMHO : the great thing about the European alps is the variety of resorts (from very large -> small) within such a compact area.
The small resorts might not have 300km of identical piste and high speed lifts - but they more than make up for that in charm and fewer crowds.

I skied this all morning and there was no one there on 1st and 2nd January... most folk are on piste, just don't ski the obvious right next to the piste stuff....


Funny there is always positives and negatives for everywhere.... everyone likes things slightly different... as you said everyone wants to go to different places and likes different things...

[Rossymcg]

^^^^ that's the thing with France/Switzerland, the fuckers know how to charge. I like Italy a lot for the food the feel of the place and for the prices but Italy just doesn't seem to have the lift systems and the other infrastructure the big Euro resorts do. I had a month in the Portes Du Soleil a few years back. we stayed in a small place call St Jean Dulp very remote and you needed a car because everything shut down at 6pm, it's at the foot of a a small lift system covered in the PDS pass. it was untracked a week or more after the last snow fall. you'd be lucky to see any skiers up there other than people just starting out in their skiing journey through life

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