Edges High? How much is too much

**Muggydude** · 01-02-2018, 05:41 PM

Did some tuning today, took a look at my Brand New protests and Quixotes. Took at the true-bar, and unfortunately seems like they are both pretty edge high. Took some pictures, which more or less give a good idea of what they look like.

Question is - how high is too high? And do I need to stone grind these? Was looking a little at the base flattening tools at Slidewright. Not too many shops in Denver I trust, evo/edgeworks is so damn expensive now

**ill-advised strategy** · 01-02-2018, 05:49 PM

I can't stand any amount of edge-high. I'm sure there are people who don't notice, and people who notice and don't mind....edge-high is intolerable for me.

**galibier_numero_un** · 01-02-2018, 06:14 PM

Wow! That's Yuuuge, Muggy. I don't know whom to refer you to, but I'd definitely have them flattened.

If you want to save some do-rei-me and just have a flat base grind done, I'd be happy to have you over to lay a 1 degree base bevel and either 1 or 2 degree side bevel (SVST tools). My files are all pretty shot at the moment, but if you brought a 10" Mill Bastard along, we'd be good to go.

... Thom

**adrenalated** · 01-02-2018, 06:21 PM

Agree, edge high sucks.

1) contact Keith, that's very unusual for a Praxis

2) other Denver area shops I trust with my skis:
-Larson's Ski & Sport
-Denver Sports Lab

**oftpiste** · 01-02-2018, 06:23 PM

That kind of a finish out of the factory is inexcusable. Checked my new Bodaciouses when they arrived and the were perfectly flat tip to tail. Manufacturer should really fix the for ya.

**N1CK.** · 01-02-2018, 06:30 PM

Wow. That sucks.

Powder 7 for a leveling?

**jetski** · 01-02-2018, 06:46 PM

Thats crazy for new skis. Unless you are buying blems or seconds? I used to get skis like that from time to time and would just belt until good to go.

**tuco** · 01-02-2018, 06:58 PM

^^^All too common unfortunately.
Muggy--grind them, no question!
I had some G3's in a similar condition ruin the gist of my season last year and had me seriously doubting what might happen this year. Sprained my meniscus catching edge in shit snow. Luckily all I needed was time to heal. Grind is a small price to pay compared to injuring your knee.

**buttahflake** · 01-02-2018, 07:21 PM

Never and I mean never, ski, skis out of the wrapper. Always grind first. Nothing comes out of factory flat. Not even Stockli. The worst I've ever seen are PM gear, woof.
So base high, like five degrees of base bevel. Salomon is known for their railed skis. All skis need some love. Never ski them out of the plastic!

SB · 01-02-2018, 07:27 PM

grind it flat, start from there

**XXX-er** · 01-02-2018, 07:34 PM

I don't usually bother with a stone grind unless a ski is fucked like this one

but I had some BD verdicts that were edge high just like that and they were evil handling so I had them done on a Montana Saphir which made them bases flatter than piss on a plate ...much better

yeah maybe you could spend many hrs to do half as good a job with a file but IMO this is definatly a job for the stone grinder

**Muggydude** · 01-02-2018, 07:58 PM

Thanks for the input. Will drop them off at Larson's tomorrow morning for a grind

**GoldMember** · 01-02-2018, 08:03 PM

Yeah, no bueno. Good idea to get them ground with some structure.

**tuco** · 01-02-2018, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

Never and I mean never, ski, skis out of the wrapper. Always grind first. Nothing comes out of factory flat. Not even Stockli. The worst I've ever seen are PM gear, woof.
So base high, like five degrees of base bevel. Salomon is known for their railed skis. All skis need some love. Never ski them out of the plastic!

I've bought 5 pairs of ON3P's now and I'd have to say they were all pretty fuckin flat. Only ski I've ever paid full price for.
Worst I've seen(and my brother owned 1st year Lhasa's), my buddies G3's Infidels are a fucking QC embarrassment and part of the reason I will have a hard time buying anything branded G3 again. Ground to fuckall and still not close to flat, but packaged up for retail anyway--fuck you G3

**jackstraw** · 01-02-2018, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

. Salomon is known for their railed skis.

Finally...it's called "railed" And stone grind. Never a belt grind.

I'm old school and would break out the panzar file and rip the edges down by hand. Then stone for the finish base. Then hand file, diamond stone.

**North** · 01-02-2018, 10:17 PM

Somewhat related question:

Who makes a good (enough) true bar? I would normally buy from Slidewright indiscriminately but the only thing in stock is an SVST that is seemingly made out of gold.

**Alpinord** · 01-02-2018, 10:42 PM

I'd caution against blindly grinding any ski dead flat without first considering you may remove a lot of useful edge and base unnecessarily if the concavity is very dramatic. You might consider incrementally grinding the ski to moderate the concavity. In soft snows, it won't matter with wide skis and on firm conditions, you may be fine with a couple/few centimeters of flat base along the edges. If it was me, I'd ski them first and gradually adjust. For narrow, carving skis, go for flat across.

Originally Posted by Muggydude

Did some tuning today, took a look at my Brand New protests and Quixotes. Took at the true-bar, and unfortunately seems like they are both pretty edge high. Took some pictures, which more or less give a good idea of what they look like.

Question is - how high is too high? And do I need to stone grind these? Was looking a little at the base flattening tools at Slidewright. Not too many shops in Denver I trust, evo/edgeworks is so damn expensive now

**Alpinord** · 01-02-2018, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by North

Somewhat related question:

Who makes a good (enough) true bar? I would normally buy from Slidewright indiscriminately but the only thing in stock is an SVST that is seemingly made out of gold.

Yeah, they don't give away the uber SVST Tru Bar. It's sweet and machined to very tight tolerances, but try a a steel straight edge first. The steel blade in that comes with the Ski Visions base flattener and structuring tool is a decent true bar, unless you have sharpened it a bunch by hand.

**tuco** · 01-03-2018, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinord

If it was me, I'd ski them first and gradually adjust. For narrow, carving skis, go for flat across.

This is what I did. Got hurt before I got them where they needed to be. Use caution

**Alpinord** · 01-03-2018, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by tuco

This is what I did. Got hurt before I got them where they needed to be. Use caution

Absolutely use caution when testing but also allow that the ski may ski better than it may look with a true bar. Don't use a sledge hammer to fix things that aren't broke or only need a 'love tap' with a finish hammer. The bigger issue may be that if you do not have a flat enough area along the edge, your edge guides won't be relative to flat. This may be more the target then dead flat across the whole width. Depending on how dramatically the edges are high, you still need to preserve remaining edge & base thicknesses.

**skiing-in-jackson** · 01-03-2018, 10:17 AM

Random notes from Jackson this morning... -4°F and no new snow... no rush to get out there this morning...

True Bars: One of my favorite new tools is a Soviet era 150mm true bar that I purchased on eBay for $35- free shipping. It is pretty cool. It has the hammer and sickle on it and comes with an inspection sheet in Russian with the calibrators signature on it from 1982. Any time something is soaked in cosmoline, it's bound to be a cool item. I'll send you the link if you want.

The Wintersteiger true bar I have is too short and doesn't work on fat skis. My snowboard true bar is great, but too long @ 18".

I suppose you can use the steel blade from the base planer as a true bar, but drop the bomb on a nice one. I'm always afraid I'll drop it or something- I work on a concrete floor and am very drop conscious.

Ski Visions Base Planer:

Terry- thanks for the counsel on the base planer.

I got a Ski Visions Ski Base Planer a few weeks ago from Terry @ SlideWright. I'm not sure which tool is my new favorite item- the Soviet true bar or my base planer.

I have access to piles of old/trashed/abandoned skis. After lots of practice, I'm getting good with it (I think). I plane for flatness when needed and leave a nice structure behind. Keeping the stones/blade nicely dressed is important. Clean the stones with a brass brush every pass. It is a great tool. Getting a nice base bevel depends on the ski being flat- starting with a base planer helps me out.

I looked at the Wintersteiger planer, but being that particular shade of neon green makes it nearly three times the price. Besides dealing with Terry was a no hassle experience.

I think I'll do a tech tr on my base planer here soon.

**CaliBrit** · 01-03-2018, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by skiing-in-jackson

Random notes from Jackson this morning... -4°F and no new snow... no rush to get out there this morning...

True Bars: One of my favorite new tools is a Soviet era 150mm true bar that I purchased on eBay for $35- free shipping. It is pretty cool. It has the hammer and sickle on it and comes with an inspection sheet in Russian with the calibrators signature on it from 1982. Any time something is soaked in cosmoline, it's bound to be a cool item. I'll send you the link if you want.

The Wintersteiger true bar I have is too short and doesn't work on fat skis. My snowboard true bar is great, but too long @ 18".

I suppose you can use the steel blade from the base planer as a true bar, but drop the bomb on a nice one. I'm always afraid I'll drop it or something- I work on a concrete floor and am very drop conscious.

Ski Visions Base Planer:

Terry- thanks for the counsel on the base planer.

I got a Ski Visions Ski Base Planer a few weeks ago from Terry @ SlideWright. I'm not sure which tool is my new favorite item- the Soviet true bar or my base planer.

I have access to piles of old/trashed/abandoned skis. After lots of practice, I'm getting good with it (I think). I plane for flatness when needed and leave a nice structure behind. Keeping the stones/blade nicely dressed is important. Clean the stones with a brass brush every pass. It is a great tool. Getting a nice base bevel depends on the ski being flat- starting with a base planer helps me out.

I looked at the Wintersteiger planer, but being that particular shade of neon green makes it nearly three times the price. Besides dealing with Terry was a no hassle experience.

I think I'll do a tech tr on my base planer here soon.

Do you have the base planer or the structure/planing tool?

**skiing-in-jackson** · 01-03-2018, 11:22 AM

Well, I've got both stones- medium and coarse with the steel blade.

**Alpinord** · 01-03-2018, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Do you have the base planer or the structure/planing tool?

Originally Posted by skiing-in-jackson

Well, I've got both stones- medium and coarse with the steel blade.

To clarify:
Ski File Base Planer/Flattener

The Ski File planer uses a crosscut file which works very well for edge high skis and snowboards. It also leaves a nice finish on the base after repairs and minor structuring. Unfortunately, it is not available for the time being until Ski Visions finds a quality replacement source for the files.

vs Base Flattener and Structuring tool

(Actually black, not red.)

The Base Flattener & Structuring tool can plane edges and bases with the steel blade. The medium and coarse stones provide structuring options. You can also reduce structure (and smooth base repairs) by shaving the base with the steel planer blade.

**CaliBrit** · 01-03-2018, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinord

To clarify:
Ski File Base Planer/Flattener

The Ski File planer uses a crosscut file which works very well for edge high skis and snowboards. It also leaves a nice finish on the base after repairs and minor structuring. Unfortunately, it is not available for the time being until Ski Visions finds a quality replacement source for the files.

vs Base Flattener and Structuring tool

(Actually black, not red.)

The Base Flattener & Structuring tool can plane edges and bases with the steel blade. The medium and coarse stones provide structuring options. You can also reduce structure (and smooth base repairs) by shaving the base with the steel planer blade.

I’ll be getting one from you before the end of the week.