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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    This in spades. I can charge just as hard in my tlt6's as I can in my RS140's... when they are unbuckled. I still practice this several times a year, just to really feel the fine muscles in my feet engaging. Really, all turns should initiate from the foot as opposed to hip steering.
    Ted Ligety might disagree with your theory regarding hip steering, although few people here have a need to arc trenches like he does

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    Leavenworth Skier does a mediocre job
    of skiing that zone with his boots buckled.
    boots buckled tightly, beyond firm handshake. More like spring loaded clamp.

  3. #53
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    the kinda handshake that could break a guy’s wrist

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenB View Post
    Ted Ligety might disagree with your theory regarding hip steering, although few people here have a need to arc trenches like he does
    Seriously what year is this? Are we still rocking 207's?

    Hips are the driving force in modern skiing.
    crab in my shoe mouth

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post

    It's really all about what you prefer, not so much about skiing ability. Personally, I don't really love skiing UL boots and correspondingly light skis. Every several years I convince myself I should try because it'd be so much better on the up, but I usually end up in my Vulcans for most touring days. So far, the stiff, 1500g class of boot with a 1700g-1800g ski is my personal sweet spot.
    Bull’s eye! I’ve gone through this cycle at least 3x:
    1.“yeah, but THIS ski will magically ski well despite being light as hell!! It’s a miracle!”
    2. Buys said miracle ski during spring sales while drunk on the internet.
    3. Spends 3 awesome volcano corn days wishing I was on something heavier because I’m there to ski, not make maximize efficiency.
    4. Sells miracle ski to other drunk person on internet who asks 1.4 billion inane detail questions first.

    Same thing with boots. Always back to the Vulcans.

  6. #56
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    The original comment was about the different mind set in Europe vs US. In Europe its very much a minimalist approach to the mountains, lighter boots, skis, bindings. Whats the least amount of gear I need to climb and ski this line. Skinny skis and sub 1000 gram boots. Some are skiing extreme terrain in pins with both toe and heel locked out, as Cody mentioned.

    In the US, its the opposite mindset for many. Yeah, I'm just skiing blue and blacks at the resort, no exposure, etc, but I need the beefiest boot/ski/binding combo, weight be damned. Not saying one is right and wrong, just interesting how the two markets are so different.

    Same applies to mtn bikes and cars. Around here, you need an F350 dually with a lift kit to go buy groceries and pick your kid up from soccer practice. Go figure.

  7. #57
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    ^^Agreed. I thought your original post was pretty clear, but I'm not sure the OP really understood it when he made this thread.

    There's also the component of "athleticism" vs endurance. We Americans seem to care much more about fast-paced, high-impact sports (American football aka "handegg", baseball, basketball, even crossfit) than we care about endurance sports. It just seems like there is much more of a focus on life-long endurance sports in other counties. But overall, I think the tide is charging. Lots of people reading wildsnow, and rando racing is quickly getting much larger in NA.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  8. #58
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    Nov 2011
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    What do the euros do for protection against wolves? Do they charge with minimum level 3 holster or some flimsy ultralight setup?

  9. #59
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    I think they killed them all 300 years ago
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I think they killed them all 300 years ago
    They're only a problem on east coast of Europe.

    So no one cares.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Can we ban the terms charge, charging & chargey?
    Sendy?

    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    New ski gear might make you ski a little better.
    But it won't make you a better skier.
    Shut yer cock holster buckwheat , all us gearswap snipers benefit from the better gear/better ability allusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    My next edit of #vanlife yoga drops tomorrow.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    What do the euros do for protection against wolves? Do they charge with minimum level 3 holster or some flimsy ultralight setup?
    Rape Whistle.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    While I certainly have skied the line pictured above in F1's, TLT5's, TLT6's and Backland Carbons it would be a misrepresentation to say "I charged it" . . .

  14. #64
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    ha ha. My first 100+ runs down that were in leather tele boots and quite non-chargey

  15. #65
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    what’s the approximate slope angle there?

  16. #66
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    ^^Agreed. I thought your original post was pretty clear, but I'm not sure the OP really understood it when he made this thread...
    OP here. I definitely did not realize there is such a gap in mindset between what’s being described here as “North American” styles and “European” styles. That was the first question. Thank you for all of the input.

    The second, and what I was ultimately after, was if boot experience and performance has more to do with a preferred style or riding than I ever thought it did. I’ve gradually moved to stiffer boots over the years. I’ve seen my friends do the same, and I just sort of assumed that was a necessity for pushing further into the sport. From some of the voices here it seems perhaps that’s not always the case. Realizing that it’s a very broad question with a lot of shades of grey, it does appear there are more than a few out their that don’t feel as if they’re missing out on anything by riding softer boots — maybe even gaining quite a bit in return.

    I’m constantly curious about looking at the sport in different ways, and I’m happy to have a new viewpoint to consider.

  18. #68
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    You'd be amazed at the boots I saw Dean Cummings skiing in a couple years back. 2 buckles and a voile strap as a "booster" driving 130+ underfoot and tackling huge first descents in AK. Skiing skill goes a long way. Skiing got way lazy with the new fat skis/shapes. Deep turn angles aren't as big anymore. I'm glad I learned on soft boots and skinny long skis. Puts an emphasis on form over anything.

    Sent from my XT1650 using TGR Forums mobile app

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by burrito View Post
    I’ve gradually moved to stiffer boots over the years. I’ve seen my friends do the same, and I just sort of assumed that was a necessity for pushing further into the sport. From some of the voices here it seems perhaps that’s not always the case. Realizing that it’s a very broad question with a lot of shades of grey, it does appear there are more than a few out their that don’t feel as if they’re missing out on anything by riding softer boots
    You need to match the forward flex to the weight, height, aggressivness and skiing style of the user. Lots of top level skiers have gone to softer boots, including plenty of elite racers, in order to facilitate extreme compression/extension (mostly for GS). For freeriders, a softer boot lets you absorb terrain and make uninhibited jump turns, handy in steep and narrow terrain while a super stiff boot sometimes mandates that you just point it.

    A very stiff boot allows you to apply leverage to the front of the ski over the duration of a long carved turn, but most expert level skiers want to do more than just arc 40 mph GS turns all day on the groomed these days. Modern ski designs no longer require tip pressure for turn initiation; hence boot designs have evolved to include less forward lean and softer flexes (compare a ten-year old 130 flex boot with a modern one, for example).

    As for super light boots (to me that's under 1200 grams per), none of them has the stiffness or power of a 130 flex alpine boot and all require skill and balance to ski gracefully in variable snow. A highly skilled skier adapts to a light boot fairly readily, but still doesn't ski at the same level as they would in their stiff alpine boot.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by burrito View Post

    The second, and what I was ultimately after, was if boot experience and performance has more to do with a preferred style or riding than I ever thought it did. I’ve gradually moved to stiffer boots over the years. I’ve seen my friends do the same, and I just sort of assumed that was a necessity for pushing further into the sport. From some of the voices here it seems perhaps that’s not always the case. Realizing that it’s a very broad question with a lot of shades of grey, it does appear there are more than a few out their that don’t feel as if they’re missing out on anything by riding softer boots — maybe even gaining quite a bit in return..
    Pushing farther in the sport.... has many different directions. It could be freeride, AT, park, racing, etc and just like there is no one best ski for all of these activities, there really isn't one best boot either. Generally speaking, the greater the force being applied to the ski, the more appropriate it is to have a stiff boot that will not deform when force is applied. These forces build from velocity and friction from the sliding surface during directional changes, ie skiing fast on hard surfaces and actually arcing turns, and are really lessened in soft snow or at lower speeds, or by stivot /skidded turns. A neutral and erect stance also mitigate this by minimizing fore-aft movements. The basic underlying ski skills still apply- the better your balance and core strength are when re-centering, the better able you will be at driving a soft boot in variable conditions. To which I say is doable... but may not always be enjoyable.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  21. #71
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    IME charging in soft boots was like hitting my finger with a hammer ... it felt good when I stopped
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #72
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    (American football aka "handegg")
    Umm, the proper term is American Smash Face Throwball.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    IME charging in soft boots was like hitting my finger with a hammer ... it felt good when I stopped
    I lulzed. it's funny because it's true.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    You need to match the forward flex to the weight, height, aggressivness and skiing style of the user. Lots of top level skiers have gone to softer boots, including plenty of elite racers, in order to facilitate extreme compression/extension (mostly for GS). For freeriders, a softer boot lets you absorb terrain and make uninhibited jump turns, handy in steep and narrow terrain while a super stiff boot sometimes mandates that you just point it.

    A very stiff boot allows you to apply leverage to the front of the ski over the duration of a long carved turn, but most expert level skiers want to do more than just arc 40 mph GS turns all day on the groomed these days. Modern ski designs no longer require tip pressure for turn initiation; hence boot designs have evolved to include less forward lean and softer flexes (compare a ten-year old 130 flex boot with a modern one, for example).

    As for super light boots (to me that's under 1200 grams per), none of them has the stiffness or power of a 130 flex alpine boot and all require skill and balance to ski gracefully in variable snow. A highly skilled skier adapts to a light boot fairly readily, but still doesn't ski at the same level as they would in their stiff alpine boot.
    You don't need this pressure for turn initiation. But you need to pressure the tips when you want to tighten a turn.

    Still, agree that you don't need super stiff boots.
    I ski the Lange freetours 130 in the Backcountry, and while not really stiff, I don't think I need a stuffer one.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    You don't need this pressure for turn initiation. But you need to pressure the tips when you want to tighten a turn.

    Still, agree that you don't need super stiff boots.
    I ski the Lange freetours 130 in the Backcountry, and while not really stiff, I don't think I need a stuffer one.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app
    Sorry, I meant you don't need tip pressure for turn initiation.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

  25. #75
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    Don't forget fitness has something to do with. I can blow through the flex of my 130 boots like it's nothing, especially in warm weather. If I was fit like NW_skier, that wouldn't happen.

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