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Thread: Charging in non-beefy boots
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12-12-2017, 03:51 PM #51Registered User
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12-12-2017, 06:46 PM #52
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12-12-2017, 07:36 PM #53
the kinda handshake that could break a guy’s wrist
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12-12-2017, 07:39 PM #54
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12-12-2017, 08:09 PM #55
Bull’s eye! I’ve gone through this cycle at least 3x:
1.“yeah, but THIS ski will magically ski well despite being light as hell!! It’s a miracle!”
2. Buys said miracle ski during spring sales while drunk on the internet.
3. Spends 3 awesome volcano corn days wishing I was on something heavier because I’m there to ski, not make maximize efficiency.
4. Sells miracle ski to other drunk person on internet who asks 1.4 billion inane detail questions first.
Same thing with boots. Always back to the Vulcans.
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12-13-2017, 12:30 AM #56Registered User
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The original comment was about the different mind set in Europe vs US. In Europe its very much a minimalist approach to the mountains, lighter boots, skis, bindings. Whats the least amount of gear I need to climb and ski this line. Skinny skis and sub 1000 gram boots. Some are skiing extreme terrain in pins with both toe and heel locked out, as Cody mentioned.
In the US, its the opposite mindset for many. Yeah, I'm just skiing blue and blacks at the resort, no exposure, etc, but I need the beefiest boot/ski/binding combo, weight be damned. Not saying one is right and wrong, just interesting how the two markets are so different.
Same applies to mtn bikes and cars. Around here, you need an F350 dually with a lift kit to go buy groceries and pick your kid up from soccer practice. Go figure.
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12-13-2017, 10:33 AM #57Registered User
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^^Agreed. I thought your original post was pretty clear, but I'm not sure the OP really understood it when he made this thread.
There's also the component of "athleticism" vs endurance. We Americans seem to care much more about fast-paced, high-impact sports (American football aka "handegg", baseball, basketball, even crossfit) than we care about endurance sports. It just seems like there is much more of a focus on life-long endurance sports in other counties. But overall, I think the tide is charging. Lots of people reading wildsnow, and rando racing is quickly getting much larger in NA."Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
photos
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12-13-2017, 11:07 AM #58Registered User
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What do the euros do for protection against wolves? Do they charge with minimum level 3 holster or some flimsy ultralight setup?
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12-13-2017, 12:04 PM #59Registered User
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I think they killed them all 300 years ago
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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12-13-2017, 12:19 PM #60
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12-13-2017, 12:25 PM #61
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12-13-2017, 12:27 PM #62
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12-14-2017, 09:30 PM #63
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12-14-2017, 10:07 PM #64
ha ha. My first 100+ runs down that were in leather tele boots and quite non-chargey
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12-14-2017, 10:55 PM #65
what’s the approximate slope angle there?
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12-14-2017, 11:02 PM #66
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12-15-2017, 09:52 AM #67Registered User
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OP here. I definitely did not realize there is such a gap in mindset between what’s being described here as “North American” styles and “European” styles. That was the first question. Thank you for all of the input.
The second, and what I was ultimately after, was if boot experience and performance has more to do with a preferred style or riding than I ever thought it did. I’ve gradually moved to stiffer boots over the years. I’ve seen my friends do the same, and I just sort of assumed that was a necessity for pushing further into the sport. From some of the voices here it seems perhaps that’s not always the case. Realizing that it’s a very broad question with a lot of shades of grey, it does appear there are more than a few out their that don’t feel as if they’re missing out on anything by riding softer boots — maybe even gaining quite a bit in return.
I’m constantly curious about looking at the sport in different ways, and I’m happy to have a new viewpoint to consider.
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12-15-2017, 09:56 AM #68Banned
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You'd be amazed at the boots I saw Dean Cummings skiing in a couple years back. 2 buckles and a voile strap as a "booster" driving 130+ underfoot and tackling huge first descents in AK. Skiing skill goes a long way. Skiing got way lazy with the new fat skis/shapes. Deep turn angles aren't as big anymore. I'm glad I learned on soft boots and skinny long skis. Puts an emphasis on form over anything.
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12-15-2017, 10:23 AM #69
You need to match the forward flex to the weight, height, aggressivness and skiing style of the user. Lots of top level skiers have gone to softer boots, including plenty of elite racers, in order to facilitate extreme compression/extension (mostly for GS). For freeriders, a softer boot lets you absorb terrain and make uninhibited jump turns, handy in steep and narrow terrain while a super stiff boot sometimes mandates that you just point it.
A very stiff boot allows you to apply leverage to the front of the ski over the duration of a long carved turn, but most expert level skiers want to do more than just arc 40 mph GS turns all day on the groomed these days. Modern ski designs no longer require tip pressure for turn initiation; hence boot designs have evolved to include less forward lean and softer flexes (compare a ten-year old 130 flex boot with a modern one, for example).
As for super light boots (to me that's under 1200 grams per), none of them has the stiffness or power of a 130 flex alpine boot and all require skill and balance to ski gracefully in variable snow. A highly skilled skier adapts to a light boot fairly readily, but still doesn't ski at the same level as they would in their stiff alpine boot.
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12-15-2017, 10:42 AM #70
Pushing farther in the sport.... has many different directions. It could be freeride, AT, park, racing, etc and just like there is no one best ski for all of these activities, there really isn't one best boot either. Generally speaking, the greater the force being applied to the ski, the more appropriate it is to have a stiff boot that will not deform when force is applied. These forces build from velocity and friction from the sliding surface during directional changes, ie skiing fast on hard surfaces and actually arcing turns, and are really lessened in soft snow or at lower speeds, or by stivot /skidded turns. A neutral and erect stance also mitigate this by minimizing fore-aft movements. The basic underlying ski skills still apply- the better your balance and core strength are when re-centering, the better able you will be at driving a soft boot in variable conditions. To which I say is doable... but may not always be enjoyable.
Move upside and let the man go through...
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12-15-2017, 12:06 PM #71Registered User
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IME charging in soft boots was like hitting my finger with a hammer ... it felt good when I stopped
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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12-15-2017, 12:35 PM #72
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12-15-2017, 05:13 PM #73Rod9301
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You don't need this pressure for turn initiation. But you need to pressure the tips when you want to tighten a turn.
Still, agree that you don't need super stiff boots.
I ski the Lange freetours 130 in the Backcountry, and while not really stiff, I don't think I need a stuffer one.
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12-15-2017, 05:14 PM #74Rod9301
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Sorry, I meant you don't need tip pressure for turn initiation.
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12-15-2017, 05:32 PM #75
Don't forget fitness has something to do with. I can blow through the flex of my 130 boots like it's nothing, especially in warm weather. If I was fit like NW_skier, that wouldn't happen.
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