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  1. #3126
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    Thatís my thinking as well. I also have Salomon touring boots, so I wonder if that helps me cause Iím sure they are designing the shift to fit those boots.

  2. #3127
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Considering Salomon's mature manufacturing capabilities, it sounds as if the design is predicated on tight tolerances - tolerances that aren't easy to hold in production.

    I won't repeat the comments about QA and QC, poor training materials for shop rats, or the attributes of a design that could be more idiot proof than it obviously is.

    Key takeaway: If you have a pair(s) that's working for you, hang on to them. Don't mess with success.


    ... Thom
    Iím with you on that.


    hell, I trusted my Tecton 12 all season teaching classes and guiding with zero problems and had a bad double ejection on my last run of the season - if it had happened earlier it could have been the last run of my life - I honestly think there was crud in the interface from my last transition from snow to rock/dirt/mud to snow - probably my fault - I think I can still trust them
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  3. #3128
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    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    Thereís an entire thread on Tectons and waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy less reported issues. And for the record I have Tectons on three setups and have never had a problem, with maybe 150 more touring days on them collectively than shifts. Not saying theyíre perfect but sometimes the sheer volume of anecdotal observations has meaning.

    Let me be clear I was super stoked on the shifts and think they have great potential, but by denying their flaws we are doing ourselves a disservice. This forum has a funny habit of positive reinforcement for the products weíve already purchased.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  4. #3129
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    right

    as proven by the pieps threads
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  5. #3130
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    Don't know the figures but I bet that there's been a gazillion more Shifts sold than Tectons.

  6. #3131
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    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    Yeah, and the real world donít generally pop in here. Iím guessing most of the market just suck up any weaknesses to user error and thatís it.

    Not to exude the fact that Iím an arrogant asshole, Iíll admit that, but to me this binding has always been a dream push. And I applaud it.

    I wonít buy first gen launches like this revolution. And Iíd refrain from calling it junk even if I was idiot enough to buy.

    You canít figure out the idiosyncrasies of a first gen product trying to revolutionize a whole sport? Of course it sucks. Stop defending it. Collect data and offer a fix.

    Why didnít you buy CAST? ďItís too heavy.Ē

    Why didnít you buy Tecton? ďItís too finicky.Ē

    Why did you buy a Shift? ďIt was the best compromise.Ē Okay. Offer your insight and make it work.

    Half of you need to quit your bitching and the other half need to quit defending. All of you need to create the next gen. None of your bro-bra-Iím-rad-as-shit testimonials have contributed anything to helping the OG designers solve your issues or defend your claims.

    Itís amazing to me that people with 5+ pair of brakes and/or 150 hrs on other bindings can just shrug off other userís claims without offering some form of critical engineering feedback.

    ďIt works for me. Youíre in error.Ē Really sums up why such highly-clouted skiers would even be on a discussion board. Theyíre not here to make shit. Theyíre here to brag.

    Again. I admit to being an arrogant asshole. Some of you need to come out of the closet.
    Last edited by gaijin; 07-19-2021 at 06:27 AM.

  7. #3132
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    You can’t figure out the idiosyncrasies of a first gen product trying to revolutionize a whole sport? Of course it sucks. Stop defending it. Collect data and offer a fix.
    ...
    All of you need to create the next gen. None of your bro-bra-I’m-rad-as-shit testimonials have contributed anything to helping the OG designers solve your issues or defend your claims.
    I agree with some of your post, but the onus isn't on the user base to redesign the Shift. Users provide anecdotal feedback on failure modes in the field, which the Salomon engineers can take into account when designing v2.0. It's totally valid for the suggestions from users to be along the lines of "make it so the brakes stay down in tour mode, the AFD doesn't drop and the binding doesn't sporadically prerelease."

  8. #3133
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    ^^ Exactly. We WANT them to work so we're not just shrugging off the problems. I'm not sure how sweeping them under the rug helps anything. Ever tried skinning a few thousand feet with the fucking brakes deployed? It sucks ass. Having a problem that many of us have reported being written off as "user error" is what's pissing me off. It's not user error.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    Don't know the figures but I bet that there's been a gazillion more Shifts sold than Tectons.
    And I also bet a significant percentage of those buying shifts have never actually toured on them, whereas that's very likely not the case with Tectons. Meahwhile there are a ton of us on this forum who have owned both and the number who have had issues with shifts vs. tectons is considerably different.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  9. #3134
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    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    all I can say is I trust the opinions of galiber and spyderjon more than you
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  10. #3135
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    Feb 2015
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    What I would like to see in shift 2.0 is:
    1. Same hole pattern;
    2. ATK style brake lock (the one with the red button on the side)
    3. Bigger/better forward pressure spring (i do not mind the weight penalty). I played a little hand-flexing a ski with the boot in the binding and I was not impressed.
    4. Better AFD!!! Or multiple presets for different standards.

  11. #3136
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    Nov 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by aanev View Post
    What I would like to see in shift 2.0 is:
    1. Same hole pattern;
    2. ATK style brake lock (the one with the red button on the side)
    3. Bigger/better forward pressure spring (i do not mind the weight penalty). I played a little hand-flexing a ski with the boot in the binding and I was not impressed.
    4. Better AFD!!! Or multiple presets for different standards.
    If forward pressure spring solves heel pre-releases then that is requirement #1.

    For the AFD, I'm not sure why they went with a dynamic adjustment instead of static, swappable plates. There are 3 standards right? So why not just make 3 standard static plates plates and have the whole AFD pop off (like it can today)?

    Even if they made these changes I'm not sure I'll ever go back. The heel pre-releases were pretty frequent and scary for me. I'm pretty confident it wasn't setup problems - I read everything I could get my hands on for these bindings and was very careful to re-check setup frequently, yet I was still coming out all the time. Cast is basically the same fiddle factor, and they walk uphill and ski downhill better, so I'm full cast moving forward.

  12. #3137
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    Feb 2015
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    175
    Dynamic adjustment AFD can compensate for boot sole wear, but I still prefer static - lighter and more robust.

  13. #3138
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~mikey b View Post
    all I can say is I trust the opinions of galiber and spyderjon more than you
    Opinion? I'm telling you it's happening and I've seen it firsthand on several different bindings. It's a fact.

    You yourself said you hadn't actually toured on them yet. Give it a try, hopefully you're one of the lucky ones. Although it doesn't always happen the first time. Why such resistance to acknowledge this flaw? I don't get it. Am I engaged in some sort of conspiracy theory? I bought two pairs and wanted them to work.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  14. #3139
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    I would never use these for a long tour. For early ups climbing for like an hour yes. But touring? No. I have a proper set up for that.
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  15. #3140
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    ^^ Sure, same, I mainly got them for side country laps or a ski trip setup. What's your point though?
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  16. #3141
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    my point is I do not tour with them
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  17. #3142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~mikey b View Post
    my point is I do not tour with them
    And my point is they suck at touring because the brakes deploy when skinning. Not always, but it definitely happens and as I've said repeatedly it's not user error. So what's the debate here? Many others in this thread have reported the same issue. Not sure why anyone has a problem with this.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  18. #3143
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    I would have more of a problem if i released in a steep couloir.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  19. #3144
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    Iíve probably only hiked with them 20-25 times and I never had problems. Iíve only skied them maybe 50 days and never had problems.
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  20. #3145
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    Oct 2015
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    NIseko Japan, or Gold Coast Australia
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    knowing how the shifts will react, and what parts to expect to fill with snow, etc, has meant that i haven't had much problems the last couple of days.

    yesterday was a 6 lap day in heavy slightly wet snow.
    i still have to bang them against each other, and the breaks into touring mode often takes two attempts, but i have been having a lot more success.
    ... or maybe my standards are lower now that i haven't used my kingpins for over a week.

    it is unfortunate that i foresaw these issues as soon as i saw the promo video, before they even started mass production. i cannot imagine that they didnt consider the issues too.
    hopefully next gen of shifts is better.

  21. #3146
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    Apr 2007
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    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    Ö..
    Last edited by gaijin; 07-21-2021 at 03:40 PM.

  22. #3147
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    Nov 2016
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    789
    Do shifts share holes with any pin bindings? From my research, looks like only share a couple holes with STHs but otherwise have a unique mounting pattern, that right?

  23. #3148
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    Jan 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Do shifts share holes with any pin bindings? From my research, looks like only share a couple holes with STHs but otherwise have a unique mounting pattern, that right?
    Two of the heel holes share with a G3 Ion/Zed (or close enough — IIRC it moves the heel a mm or two), but they're mostly a unique pattern.

    They do play well with those G3s if you're trying to do inserts for both.

  24. #3149
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Two of the heel holes share with a G3 Ion/Zed (or close enough ó IIRC it moves the heel a mm or two), but they're mostly a unique pattern.

    They do play well with those G3s if you're trying to do inserts for both.
    You can share 2 toe and 2 heel holes if you are okay mounting your Zeds +1.5cm from your shifts. If you have a super traditional ski this might actually help with kick turns, ymmv.

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