The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[XXX-er]

well I predict that it won't work and all the product will be recalled

[LightRanger]

TMS is a solid shop. Good call giving Dave your business. Guy supports and is heavily involved in the local community on multiple levels.

[thecazdog]

Having a hard time choosing between this and the Tecton.

Tecton has lower weight and less ramp (although negligibly so), but is more expensive and has less toe elasticity. Heel risers and DIN certification don't matter to me, nor does alpine boot compatibility.

I'd be happy to go with the Shift (even at a slight weight penalty) if it skied markedly better than the Tecton. Is anyone who has skied both willing to share their thoughts?

[jacob_dbu]

Having a hard time choosing between this and the Tecton.

Tecton has lower weight and less ramp (although negligibly so), but is more expensive and has less toe elasticity. Heel risers and DIN certification don't matter to me, nor does alpine boot compatibility.

I'd be happy to go with the Shift (even at a slight weight penalty) if it skied markedly better than the Tecton. Is anyone who has skied both willing to share their thoughts?

Tecton can be had for $400 right now, I can't notice a difference between it and an alpine binding when I ski - save for the step-in process.

[XXX-er]

well I predict that it won't work and all the product will be recalled

edit: just kidding

but i don't think everyone will go running to the solomon dealer cuz you still need a boot with tech fittings

[Banh Mi]

Tecton can be had for $400 right now

New with a warranty? Where at?


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[margotron]

New with a warranty? Where at?


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Yeah where at


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[jacob_dbu]

New with a warranty? Where at?


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*Was* Campsaver had them in Outlet plus a 25% off Outlet code. That's over as of yesterday though.

[auvgeek]

but i don't think everyone will go running to the solomon dealer cuz you still need a boot with tech fittings

Not to ski down, you don't. That's one thing that make this idea very marketable to people who might want to get into touring. "Think you might want to get into touring sometime in the future? Buy the SHIFT -- you can ski it with your alpine boots until you buy a boot with a tech fitting. It's also the lightest alpine binder on the market and the safest tech binding."

Yes, the price is considerably higher than a standard alpine binding, but I think many people will view it as cheaper than a dedicated touring setup.

[concretejungle]

I'm in for the group buy (filled out the Google thingy). If anyone else is in Bozeman and would like to split shipping once this gets set up let me know.

[margotron]

Have some more finalized details to share:

- March 31: $250 downpayment due
- $150 non-refundable, i.e., you get back $100 if you cancel.
- Remainder due when bindings arrive at TMS (September-Dec. None of us control this, Salomon does).
* Still working out how much the 'remainder' will be -- trying to get us the best deal possible.

Question: we can get a deeper discount if we pool the money and send to TMS in one lump sump vs. everyone dealing with TMS individually (my headache vs. his headache).

I am happy to do this but it is the community's decision. I'll know how much deeper discount today/tomorrow.

[gregL]

Not to ski down, you don't.

Yeah. I'm always amazed by the people who buy a frame binding "so they can start getting into the backcountry" and when they come back in the next year still haven't bought skins . . .

[TahoeJ]

Yeah. I'm always amazed by the people who buy a frame binding "so they can start getting into the backcountry" and when they come back in the next year still haven't bought skins . . .

They’re just keeping their options open so if they decide to make the plunge it’s one less thing they need to buy. I get it.

[auvgeek]

They’re just keeping their options open so if they decide to make the plunge it’s one less thing they need to buy. I get it.

And if the SHIFT skis more like an alpine binding than a frame binder does, it will be a real winner for many of those people.

But just as people loved the Duke and Guardian when they came out only to find fault/failure with them later, I think we should all be a bit skeptical until the SHIFT has been out for a season or two. Just like any first gen product and as many other people in this thread have said.

For instance, the Kingpin has been out for a few seasons now and we're starting to see a number of pin shear failures and heels blowing up, after Marker solved the problems of the pins falling out with the first gen products.

[counterfeitfake]

The Duke and Guardian are heavy and tour poorly, which were pretty obvious from the beginning, they were just successful because people wanted a touring binding that skied like an alpine binding. Are there more faults I'm not thinking of? Do they ski much worse than most alpine binding? I've used Dukes for almost all my inbounds skiing the last several years, they've seemed to be very reliable and perform well.

[auvgeek]

The Duke and Guardian are heavy and tour poorly, which were pretty obvious from the beginning, they were just successful because people wanted a touring binding that skied like an alpine binding. Are there more faults I'm not thinking of? Do they ski much worse than most alpine binding? I've used Dukes for almost all my inbounds skiing the last several years, they've seemed to be very reliable and perform well.

Yeah, they ski worse than alpine bindings*, break easily, and develop slop quickly.

With the usual disclaimers: IME, IMHO, & YMMV.

*maybe not compared to other plastic Marker bindings, but compared to FKS and STH.

[LightRanger]

I'm a hack former tele skier, but between my Dukes and STH2s/Looks, in addition to the obvious large weight difference, I can definitely feel the "dead spot" under foot due to the rigid frame. And that's between two very different skis. It's super obvious. They serve(d) their purpose, and they were obviously a step above older Fritschis and Naxos in terms of getting closer to a good alpine binding, but still a noticeable step down from a good alpine binding.

[SupreChicken]

Attachment 225868

I'm having a hard time making sense of this. So just sitting on the ski, there's a 12mm ramp delta on the shift, without a boot clicked in.

But once I click my alpine boot in, the ramp delta becomes 1mm? If the delta is only 1mm when skiing, I would think that's the number I would care most about.

But I suspect that once clicked into ski mode, the pins sit above the boot, correct? So that means that you're still skiing in 12mm high heels?

Spyder Jon, 1000 oaks, other mechanical engineers

...what would it take to get a shim and a higher touring riser attachment built for this binding? Could you do it? And if you did, what would you charge to throw in longer screws, plus shims, plus risers and basically silver platter it for me? (For clarity, I'm the asshat who works in medicine and only owns a drill so I can mount my own fucking skis).

That would definitely be worth some bacon...

[dcpnz]

I'm having a hard time making sense of this.

Trying to compare ramp angle across different bindings with different boots is confusing.
As soon as you have some bindings that raise the toe piece(salomon) and some that lower the afd (look, marker) the ramp angle of a binding becomes entirely dependent on the specific boot being used for measuring.

But yeah i don't really understand Lee's chart either - if shift raises toe like every other salomon to accommodate different soles them ramp/ stack height should not change at all

[XXX-er]

Yeah. I'm always amazed by the people who buy a frame binding "so they can start getting into the backcountry" and when they come back in the next year still haven't bought skins . . .

I have 2 pair of Barons I bought cheap mounted on skis i wanted which I have never used in tour mode and I don't think the original owners did much or at all either ... who puts a baron on a cochise ?

But if a sales person can convince the buyer to spend > twice as much for something they may or may not need that will be pretty good for salomon

still the boots need tech fittings to go up with, so the average frame binding user I see on the hill is rocking a 4 buckle alpine boots wiuth no tech fittings and all their gear is really heavy from being an alpine skier, i supose they might buy boots with tech fittings if they came on all boots " so they can start getting into backcountry "

yeah its one more possibility , its probably a good one but not an overnight game changer

[onenerdykid]

Trying to compare ramp angle across different bindings with different boots is confusing.
As soon as you have some bindings that raise the toe piece(salomon) and some that lower the afd (look, marker) the ramp angle of a binding becomes entirely dependent on the specific boot being used for measuring.

But yeah i don't really understand Lee's chart either - if shift raises toe like every other salomon to accommodate different soles them ramp/ stack height should not change at all

Shift toe is stationary. The AFD moves up and down (not on a ramp, but a pivot) so your toe stand height greatly depends on the thickness of your boot sole. Toe stand height ranges from 20mm - 28mm, heel stand height is 29mm.

[dcpnz]

^^^ cool, thanks for clarifying onenerdykid

[LeeLau]

Shift toe is stationary. The AFD moves up and down (not on a ramp, but a pivot) so your toe stand height greatly depends on the thickness of your boot sole. Toe stand height ranges from 20mm - 28mm, heel stand height is 29mm.

Yah it appears I've opened a can of worms.

The reason a Vulcan or touring boot appears to be closer to the ski topsheet is because I'm measuring from the bottom of the boot sole to the top of the ski topsheet. And as you guys have noted theres more boot sole on a lugged touring boot than on a smooth soled alpine boot so my measurements reflect that.

The middle of pins measurement was trying to control fir different types of boot but even that is IMO poor data. If I really wanted to geek out I'd measure from where the foot sits in the boot to the ski topsheet. But that then depends on liner, boot, bootboard, footbed.

There is such a thing as too much data

[LHutz Esq]

Got shifty last night.

I like them

They are good

You should buy them

[dcpnz]

Yah it appears I've opened a can of worms.

All is good. Thanks for your time and effort to document this stuff..

Cant speak for others but my confusion stemmed from my incorrect assumption that toe piece moved vertically instead of the AFD. We all know what they say about making assumptions.....
Now that ONK set that straight it makes sense to me.

Doesn’t really make it any easier to extrapolate info to different setups though since everything depends on a specific boot in a properly adjusted binding.