The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[flatland]

And you did put it all the way in hike mode?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Backcountry...inding_issues/

Yup, I can barely kick turn without them coming off in half lock.


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[JRainey]

I had another heel release that probably caused a crash. I did go a little deep and landed on the front of my boots, but you can see the ski click off before the point of no return. So far I'm just thinking higher din. Maybe snow in the heel cup. To be fair, I hit about 20 airs after this and no problems. This was the first of the morning.

[toastybroski]

I had another heel release that probably caused a crash. I did go a little deep and landed on the front of my boots, but you can see the ski click off before the point of no return. So far I'm just thinking higher din. Maybe snow in the heel cup. To be fair, I hit about 20 airs after this and no problems. This was the first of the morning.

I have had two this season, one of which resulted in pretty serious injury. One for each foot. Each time heal came off and I went over the handlebars. I cranked the dins and haven't had any issues since, but also don't have room to crank them anymore.

[JRainey]

I have had two this season, one of which resulted in pretty serious injury. One for each foot. Each time heal came off and I went over the handlebars. I cranked the dins and haven't had any issues since, but also don't have room to crank them anymore.

I'm at 11, so room to grow. I had said previously that I used to run solly heels on 12. I haven't had any lateral release issues on 9. Even had a few scares with death cookies under powder and things like that, but been happy there.

Edit after seeing your video. It looks like you hit a rock there, maybe the binding release contributed to injury, but maybe not. I've had a fall like that where I caught up on rock, going slow, and hurt myself with no binding release. Epic groaning!

[talbash]

ptex1 said price will be higher for next season. Can anyone confirm and what price?

[toastybroski]

I'm at 11, so room to grow. I had said previously that I used to run solly heels on 12. I haven't had any lateral release issues on 9. Even had a few scares with death cookies under powder and things like that, but been happy there.

Edit after seeing your video. It looks like you hit a rock there, maybe the binding release contributed to injury, but maybe not. I've had a fall like that where I caught up on rock, going slow, and hurt myself with no binding release. Epic groaning!

Yeah I hit a shark and the ski came off. Didn't think I hit it too hard though. Got two sharp rocks right to the knee and kidney.

[GoldenBC]

ptex1 said price will be higher for next season. Can anyone confirm and what price?

$50 more. then the following year an 11 din will come out.

[TahoeJ]

I had another heel release that probably caused a crash. I did go a little deep and landed on the front of my boots, but you can see the ski click off before the point of no return. So far I'm just thinking higher din. Maybe snow in the heel cup. To be fair, I hit about 20 airs after this and no problems. This was the first of the morning.

Ugh. You're a little backseat on the landing with a forward kick (probably because you're holding the camera), but not that bad, especially for soft snow. Seems like it shouldn't have released. I have two setups and have only walked out once (it was on a pretty steep drop-in about 6 miles deep into the backcountry and if there wasn't deep powder I would have gone tumbling into some trees) and pretty sure I didn't clear enough snow from my boot, but still... this is concerning. I feel like we've had enough documentation from good skiers to legitimize this as a real issue.

[Spyderjon]

ptex1 said price will be higher for next season. Can anyone confirm and what price?

19/20 list price in the UK is the same as this season at GBP400 (ie GBP333.33 + 20% UK/EU tax)

[JRainey]

I went to up my heel din and realized the ski that had been releasing actually had higher forward pressure. The one not releasing, either relaxed a little or was set to standard flush like the manual. I triple checked, but I could have been mistaken. I don't know if these things "relax".

I consulted manual one more time and it's pretty clear, to me, that it's saying flush. Then the little rectangle falls in the center of the two arrows. I set them both back to recommended, but heel at 12 now.

Somebody was saying earlier in the thread that increased forward pressure on FKS would reduce vertical elasticity. Maybe that's what's going on here? I surely felt quick clicks out in soft snow where it should have held a bit longer.

One release at the ski area I know didn't have excess snow on the boot. But like any alpine binding, it's always good to make sure no snow is in there. The problem is with the shift is I can't kick the crap out of it to clear snow :-(

[bw_wp_hedonism]

The problem is with the shift is I can't kick the crap out of it to clear snow :-(

I kick the heel to clear snow...

[ffmedic84]

I kick the heel to clear snow...

Just engage/disengage the brake a time or two and it should clear.


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[JRainey]

Just engage/disengage the brake a time or two and it should clear.


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More about clearing from the boot, like a normal alpine binding. Still a little wary to kick the plastic, but I guess I shouldn't worry.

[jharris.sf]

I've had my eye on a set of these for next season, but all of these early heel releases are concerning...

[NorCalNomad]

My prototype Shift high climbing bar:

Needs more CF

Nice clean simple execution. I'm sure just a tab on the side with enough relief to stick the top of your pole under would be enough.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I've had my eye on a set of these for next season, but all of these early heel releases are concerning...

I’d be surprised if at least 90% of the issues you read about here with pre-releases and brakes coming down while touring aren’t just plain old user error.

[PNW_Skier206]

I’d be surprised if at least 90% of the issues you read about here with pre-releases and brakes coming down while touring aren’t just plain old user error.

Impossible. Everyone here skins perfectly and never falls so any release would be a prerelease.


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[cmcrawfo]

if u hype something up enough, it will almost always be perceived as underperforming

[SkiLyft]

Just hit 40 days on mine today, had 2 pre-releases that were my fault (dins set too low). Dins have been appropriately set for the last 10 days and stoked. Completely trust them — so much so that I just ordered a second set.

Data points
#205
Scarpa freedom SL
Inserts on Goats and gunsmokes


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[ratcliffe81]

Add me to the list of shift prereleasing. Has happened to me both landing slightly forward on cliff landings and hitting buried moguls at high speed. I have gradually increased the heal din so this has stopped happening. Heels are at 12 now and toes at 11.
Ive increased the forward pressure too. Is there a consensus yet on the best setting for fwd pressure?

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[reckless toboggan]

Forward pressure with Salomon's may sometimes be a compromise, depending on how you tend to release/no-release release.

Slightly increasing forward pressure may reduce incidents of a no-release release (ie. the ski flexes deeply moving the heel piece backward, and the the ski rebounds quickly and the binding can't keep up and there is nothing holding the heel of your boot to the ski).

However, slightly increasing the forward pressure to reduce no-release releases also puts more pressure on the toe to release (ie. if you increase forward pressure, it increases pressure on the toe piece, and therefore the binding toe is that much closer to the release threshold).

So there are comprises that depend on what you typically ski, and how you react to those conditions/forces.

Bumping up the ffwd pressure (as well as increasing the din) on Salomon's was a racer solution to the no-release release issue. Racers ski on chattery hardpack, if not full-blown injected ice, and are going through massive compressions, closing off-cambers, and closing roll-overs, while navigating closing turns through gates, which both make the courses more difficult and exciting and are the typical conditions that would cause the no-release release. So you bump the forward pressure to deal with the no-release release, and you bump the din to deal with the extra pressure the increased forward pressure has put into the system.

Do you ski that way?

If so, a small bump in both din and forward pressure may help.

If you aren't skiing those conditions, or you're not forcing aggressive very high speed closing turns in compressions or over rollers (which is pretty much all I look for if/when I'm skiing groomers here in the hardpacked, icy, coral-reef continental snowpack and climate of the Canadian Rockies which I ski very very fast), then you may not want to bump the forward pressure, or the din.

[margotron]

Just hit 40 days on mine today, had 2 pre-releases that were my fault (dins set too low). Dins have been appropriately set for the last 10 days and stoked. Completely trust them — so much so that I just ordered a second set.

Data points
#205
Scarpa freedom SL
Inserts on Goats and gunsmokes


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soo not trying to be devils advocate, you know me, but what’s up with this landing by mcnutt? Seems plenty in control, skis seems balanced, basically I’d love to land airs with that form. Yet... kaboom

p.s. What have you landed on for “appropriate” ?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrGKgxUB2nr/

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Did you read McNutt’s comment? Do you understand what it means?


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[margotron]

Forward pressure with Salomon's may sometimes be a compromise, depending on how you tend to release/no-release release.

Slightly increasing forward pressure may reduce incidents of a no-release release (ie. the ski flexes deeply moving the heel piece backward, and the the ski rebounds quickly and the binding can't keep up and there is nothing holding the heel of your boot to the ski).

However, slightly increasing the forward pressure to reduce no-release releases also put more pressure on the toe to release (ie. if you increase forward pressure, it increases pressure on the toe piece, and therefore the binding toe is that much closer to the release threshold).

So there are comprises that depend on what you typically ski, and how you react to those conditions/forces.

Bumping up the ffwd pressure (as well as increasing the din) on Salomon's was a racer solution to the no-release release issue. Racers ski on chattery hardpack, if not full-blown injected ice, and are going through massive compressions, closing off-cambers, and closing roll-overs, while navigating closing turns through gates, which both make the courses more difficult and exciting and are the typical conditions that would cause the no-release release. So you bump the forward pressure to deal with the no-release release, and you bump the din to deal with the extra pressure the increased forward pressure has put into the system.

Do you ski that way?

If so, a small bump in both din and forward pressure may help.

If you aren't skiing those conditions, or you're not forcing aggressive very high speed closing turns in compressions or over rollers (which is pretty much all I look for if/when I'm skiing groomers here in the hardpacked, icy, coral-reef continental snowpack and climate of the Canadian Rockies which I ski very very fast), then you may not want to bump the forward pressure, or the din.

Maybe overly obvious but given that (which I agree complrwtely), wouldn’t a reverse camber ski be the ideal match?

Also so why does the scenario you describe not happen again with pivots?

i feel like, and I’m just speculating here, but could look come out with a touring pivot? And I don’t mean cast, and I don’t mean that other euro company that is releasing a binding that’s heavier than frAme binding

[reckless toboggan]

soo not trying to be devils advocate, you know me, but what’s up with this landing by mcnutt? Seems plenty in control, skis seems balanced, basically I’d love to land airs with that form. Yet... kaboom

p.s. What have you landed on for “appropriate” ?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrGKgxUB2nr/

Looks to me like a typical no-release release, although not necessarily caused in a way, or conditions I've been describing, even if the underlying cause is actually the same.

He pops the first air (ski decambers then rebounds), lands on a little bonk (ski decambers and rebounds, so we're getting repetitive cycles of flex and rebounds probably still going through the ski from the first pop), pops through/off of that into a deeper landing that really flexes his left ski (ski decambers and rebounds, so we're getting repetitive cycles of flex and rebounds probably still going through the ski from the first and second pop) then he quickly pops up and over something, binding heel moves back due to ski flex and can't recover (ie move forward fast enough) as the ski cycles to recover/rebound (possibly going through several repeated cycles of flexes and rebounds travelling through the ski/think repeated deep chattery cycles on an injected ice race course and then you go into a compression in the course), and so there's nothing holding his heel to the ski, he moves forward and leaves his ski behind.

Or,

Someone was hiding in the snow and grabbed his ski. Ha. Or this was just a regular heel release because he landed too far forward into the last mogul/upward feature and couldn't recover.