The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[buttahflake]

Fuck that, if the boots not compatible, we’re not touching it. Simple as that.

[Fish Rider]

Lupos after 3 days of touring on shiftys.... How do you adjust AFD?

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[Skidog]

Lupos after 3 days of touring on shiftys.... How do you adjust AFD?

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Brutal.

[1000-oaks]

Comish, do you have another pair of boots with similar BSL? Have those mounted, then adjust for M RS yourself

[retirwntm]

Lupos after 3 days of touring on shiftys.... How do you adjust AFD?

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What the fucking fuck?

It looks like the metal will wear down to plastic in another 5 tours.


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[train07]

wtf is right....

[El Chupacabra]

^^^ Is that socket damage just from touring in the binding? Not from kicking rocks or something?

[TahoeJ]

Seems like this is repeatedly a Lupo thing, at least so far. Are the toes made of silly putty or something?

Also the same boots that had the toe indent issue on forward falls with Tectons, if I’m not mistaken but could be misremembering.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

I think that's also a Lupo thing. Plastic near the sockets on Lupo AX110 is completely trashed after ~40 days with kingpins

[Fish Rider]

^^^ Is that socket damage just from touring in the binding? Not from kicking rocks or something?

Yep, Maybe Dalbello should kick rocks.

[comish]

Don't disagree with the folks saying that the shop shouldn't touch them if not compatible, I'm just not so sure that Maestrale RS's aren't compatible... I think it was a non-issue with that generation so Scarpa didn't stamp the sole, but pretty dang sure they are compatible which is what is annoying.

I will just mount them myself like I shoulda done already.

Problem with Footloose is they think they know everything and that they are the greatest shop on the planet. There are some guys there that know their shit, but there are a bunch that don't. I have had multiple debates with doods there when they were just flat out wrong, and their holier than thow attitude bugs, and there is very little flexibility. Granted they are typically dealing with the SoCal Jerry's so I get that they need a filter and yes, a couple of the shop guys really know how to tune. Got great boot work there from 1 dude over the years, but its like anything, it depends on the individual.

[Judo Chop!]

So I had a toepiece pull out today. The two front black screws. Similar to in this thread: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...t=Shift%20fail

It also happened with a pretty decent ski tip flex, but nothing ridiculous. Luckily had my pack & tools so managed to jam some steelwool in to remount and get home tentatively.

Not super stoked.
I think this is also the first binding pullout I’ve ever had.

I have two pairs of these things (plus one for my wife) and I’ve been having lots of prereleases, as described in this thread. Usually heel, but sometimes toe. Often on landings. Often = ouch.
I’ve had a couple other people check the setup. Mounted with a jig. On ravens & renegades, which should be substantial enough cores. I usually ski STH or Wardens at 12 or even 11 without issue, but have these up to 13 and Im losing confidence.

What gives?

[snoboy]

^^ Your bindings, apparently.

[tomh79]

I'm just not so sure that Maestrale RS's aren't compatible...

Does anybody know what the current status of the Maestrale RS / Shift compatibility issue is? I'm hearing so many different opinions - and people are obviously skiing the Shift with Maestrale RS?! Really confusing. At least I think Scarpa says there are no issues...

[kalisto]

it's fine. read the whole thread for more info.

[margotron]

So I had a toepiece pull out today. The two front black screws. Similar to in this thread: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...t=Shift%20fail

It also happened with a pretty decent ski tip flex, but nothing ridiculous. Luckily had my pack & tools so managed to jam some steelwool in to remount and get home tentatively.

Not super stoked.
I think this is also the first binding pullout I’ve ever had.

I have two pairs of these things (plus one for my wife) and I’ve been having lots of prereleases, as described in this thread. Usually heel, but sometimes toe. Often on landings. Often = ouch.
I’ve had a couple other people check the setup. Mounted with a jig. On ravens & renegades, which should be substantial enough cores. I usually ski STH or Wardens at 12 or even 11 without issue, but have these up to 13 and Im losing confidence.

What gives?

Can you post pics? This doesn't make me happy.

I'm sketched out by the premature blowouts. Not sure how I'm gonna fix that.


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[Judo Chop!]

Can you post pics? This doesn't make me happy.

I'm sketched out by the premature blowouts. Not sure how I'm gonna fix that.


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From back in my garage.
Previous mount was sealed with plugs & epoxy.

[margotron]

I recall we had a discussion awhile back about the template and where it placed the front nubbin in relation to the jig. Namely, the jig placed the nubbin further back than the template. Do we have a preferred template between the following two? They differ from each other:

Here is a link to Lucknau's most recent template: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XvK...cLQlLRviX/view

Here is a link to Knut's / Powderguides: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...yYY6Gg2a3Dd245

[banzai]

I printed both templates and compared to the binding - Powderguide's version is not correct.
I used Lucknau's version and moved the nubbing a further 1 mm to 65.5mm for better retention. I think his first version put the nubbin at 66mm (jig is at 64.5mm as is current template).

[margotron]

I printed both templates and compared to the binding - Powderguide's version is not correct.
I used Lucknau's version and moved the nubbing a further 1 mm to 65.5mm for better retention. I think his first version put the nubbin at 66mm (jig is at 64.5mm as is current template).

I love this forum. Thanks brother. Props to you.

[TahoeJ]

Both toe pull-outs (that we know of) were mounted with the paper template and not the jig, correct? Or not?

[reckless toboggan]

Both toe pull-outs (that we know of) were mounted with the paper template and not the jig, correct? Or not?

Nope.

IIRC, 1st pullout was mounted by a shop using the jig.

[MnO_____]

With only three screws in the front, where one is in the ski center, for sure the only screw pair will take a lot of load. But if a binding pulls out, it´s normally not a problem with the binding but with the ski and/or the mounting.

BTW I can second the pre-release problems. I both had a few double ejects myself and I just had a friend that borrowed my skis that did the same. He double ejected on hardpack in a powerful, but perfectly controlled turn. So far it only happened on groomers. We both were extremely careful with the AFD and forward pressure settings so it had nothing to do with that. The result is that I also need to add 1-1,5 DIN to my normal setting (normally ski mostly Jester/Griffon/Baron/Duke). After that I increased the DIN to a somwhat mentally uncomfortable 12 I have had no problems (normally ski on 10,5). I had the same problems with Guardian back in the days, so not really unexpected however, and I somehow always have problems with pre-releases and am used to fiddle some with the DIN before I find the sweetspot in a binding.

[margotron]

With only three screws in the front, where one is in the ski center, for sure the only screw pair will take a lot of load. But if a binding pulls out, it´s normally not a problem with the binding but with the ski and/or the mounting.

Agree in theory. But the binding was designed FOR touring skis. With only three load bearing screws vs. standard 4+ there is a lot of poundage per ski.

BTW I can second the pre-release problems. I both had a few double ejects myself and I just had a friend that borrowed my skis that did the same. He double ejected on hardpack in a powerful, but perfectly controlled turn. So far it only happened on groomers. We both were extremely careful with the AFD and forward pressure settings so it had nothing to do with that. The result is that I also need to add 1-1,5 DIN to my normal setting (normally ski mostly Jester/Griffon/Baron/Duke). After that I increased the DIN to a somwhat mentally uncomfortable 12 I have had no problems (normally ski on 10,5). I had the same problems with Guardian back in the days, so not really unexpected however, and I somehow always have problems with pre-releases and am used to fiddle some with the DIN before I find the sweetspot in a binding.

I've got mine on 12 too. I keep saying I'm jump straight to 13 after my prereleases at 10sh then 11sh...maybe I should be at 13.

[reckless toboggan]

Per the other toe pull out thread.

I've been thinking about this for a bit.

I again think it is due to the ski flexing and the nubbin sliding out of the entry hole in the bottom plate.

Several other posters had said that if there was enough flex in a ski or movement of the toe for the nubbin to pop out, that we'd see all kinds of rip outs in bindings with 4 fixed screws.

I believe that is incorrect.

With 4 fixed screws, the binding is locked to the ski and the ski does not flex freely under the 4 screw mount area. This deadens the flex of the ski a bit (recall Cody saying the Shift toe made the ski feel more lively and free in its flex), and transfers that pressure from the ski flexing and shortening underfoot to the boot, when the boot then transfers flex from shortening to the forward pressure spring, which gives way and the binding heel moves back in its track (or the ski pivots under the arms, and the binding and boot arcs upward relative to the ski in the case of look FKS pivot turntables).

With 2 screws and a sliding nubbin in the Shift toe mount, the 2 screws are the only fixed anchor point, and the tie of the binding is allowed to slide forward and flex upward against the nubbin when the ski is deeply flexed. The nubbin does not fix the toe of the binding to the ski in a planar fashion (unlike the 4 screw fixed pattern) and does not deaden the flex under the toe (recall Cody saying the toe made the ski flex in a move lively fashion) and therefore, the toe accepts some of the flex and pressure that would normally be sent backward through the boot to the forward pressure spring.

Therefore, this 2 screw plus nubbin mount can slip out during a deep flex, as it allows the tow of the boot and binding to move through an upward arc, similar to the way a look heel allows the boot heel and binding heel piece to do.

Except that the look heel is screwed down by 4 fixed screws, and the free pivot location is placed at the base of the arms.

With the Shift toe, it appears Salomon has placed that free pivot location on the top sheet of the ski, which allows the nubbin to slide out.

Again, simple and cheap solutions are to change the metal housing under the toe to have a longer slot, or to make a wide oval, or even a rectangular shape, to the top of the nubbin. Then have the long axis of the newly shaped nubbin fixed to perpendicular to the length of the ski. Then, when mounting, turn the toe piece 90 degrees, drop down onto new nubbin shape, and rotate back 90 degrees so the toe is now in proper alignment with the ski. Then screw down screw 2 and 3 (and 4 and 5 with are only there to hold the afd in place). Then it is not possible for the nubbin to slide out of the insertion hole (but still allows for the free flex of the toe piece along the top sheet, maybe could be other longer term friction/wear issues there).