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  1. #2101
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    Anyone mounting these with the BF/QK inserts? Any problems with the center screw loosening up or other issues?

  2. #2102
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    Nov 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripvanwinter View Post
    Anyone mounting these with the BF/QK inserts? Any problems with the center screw loosening up or other issues?
    No issues at all after >40 days of use split between two skis that I BF’d.

    Just make sure to use proper epoxy and you’re good! One of the skis I used cheaper stuff in a pinch when my gflex ran out and had the insert back out when swapping skis. Used hard wood dowels — re drilled and installed fresh BF inserts that ski saw another 25 days on the new inserts an all is good.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  3. #2103
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    Dec 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    One of the skis I used cheaper stuff in a pinch when my gflex ran out and had the insert back out when swapping skis. Used hard wood dowels — re drilled and installed fresh BF inserts that ski saw another 25 days on the new inserts an all is good.
    Curious why redrilling was necessary, unless the threads in the ski tore out. Wouldn't it be possible to just smear some fresh epoxy into the tapped hole and a bit on the insert threads and reinstall it?

  4. #2104
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    Nov 2016
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    So I think it had to do with how the shift mounts... given the sliding/locking mechanism when the insert failed I majorly buggered up the hole when removing/extracting the spinning insert (on those two main center screws you need to physically have the whole screw back out to remove the binder - in my case the insert would just spin not allowing me to remove the screw) . Did not want to take another chance on it pulled all inserts and started fresh!


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  5. #2105
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    32
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Curious why redrilling was necessary, unless the threads in the ski tore out. Wouldn't it be possible to just smear some fresh epoxy into the tapped hole and a bit on the insert threads and reinstall it?
    Reinstalling in same threads would caus a more or less weaker bond between old cheap crap epoxy and new stuff. Redrilling is the only sensible way to do it if it's not for solving an emergency issue with no possibility to drill and plug

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  6. #2106
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    Dec 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    given the sliding/locking mechanism when the insert failed I majorly buggered up the hole when removing/extracting the spinning insert (on those two main center screws you need to physically have the whole screw back out to remove the binder - in my case the insert would just spin not allowing me to remove the screw) .
    Gotcha. Could also Helicoil the hole for the 5/16" insert, although that starts becoming a really big hole. QK Rescue Inserts would be another option: https://quiverkiller.com/products/qk...inserts-4-pack

    Quote Originally Posted by bioicon View Post
    Reinstalling in same threads would caus a more or less weaker bond between old cheap crap epoxy and new stuff. Redrilling is the only sensible way to do it if it's not for solving an emergency issue with no possibility to drill and plug
    If there were still good 5/16" threads in the ski, you wouldn't catch me plugging/redrilling/retapping the insert hole. The threads in the ski provide a lot more attachment than the epoxy, which mostly just seals out water. Plugging/redrilling/retapping perfectly good threads simply replaces good threads with questionable ones, even if "better" epoxy is used on round two.

  7. #2107
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Gotcha. Could also Helicoil the hole for the 5/16" insert, although that starts becoming a really big hole. QK Rescue Inserts would be another option: https://quiverkiller.com/products/qk...inserts-4-pack



    If there were still good 5/16" threads in the ski, you wouldn't catch me plugging/redrilling/retapping the insert hole. The threads in the ski provide a lot more attachment than the epoxy, which mostly just seals out water. Plugging/redrilling/retapping perfectly good threads simply replaces good threads with questionable ones, even if "better" epoxy is used on round two.
    Speaking of which, has anyone found hardwood dowels that are actually hard?

    The stuff at the hardware stores is meh, so I ordered some maple dowels from Amazon and it was more or less the same stuff.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  8. #2108
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    32
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Gotcha. Could also Helicoil the hole for the 5/16" insert, although that starts becoming a really big hole. QK Rescue Inserts would be another option: https://quiverkiller.com/products/qk...inserts-4-pack



    If there were still good 5/16" threads in the ski, you wouldn't catch me plugging/redrilling/retapping the insert hole. The threads in the ski provide a lot more attachment than the epoxy, which mostly just seals out water. Plugging/redrilling/retapping perfectly good threads simply replaces good threads with questionable ones, even if "better" epoxy is used on round two.
    I agree on that. On second thought the bad epoxy probably bonds good enough to the ski, but not too the insert. So better quality epoxy should bond good enough to the insert and make the insert not wind back out.

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  9. #2109
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    There's a model ship supply store that has hardwood dowels in metric diameters. Unfortunately you'll have to look through all items that contain the word "dowel":

    https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce...r=name&q=Dowel

  10. #2110
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioicon View Post
    I agree on that. On second thought the bad epoxy probably bonds good enough to the ski, but not too the insert. So better quality epoxy should bond good enough to the insert and make the insert not wind back out.

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk
    Don't forget to decrease the inserts. I use my wife's ultrasonic jewelry cleaner along with a bit of Simple Green.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    There's a model ship supply store that has hardwood dowels in metric diameters. Unfortunately you'll have to look through all items that contain the word "dowel":

    https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce...r=name&q=Dowel
    Thanks!

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  11. #2111
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    Dec 2004
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    I use two baths of denatured alcohol in aluminum pie pans to clean the cutting oil from new inserts, and then shaking them in a cheap kitchen collander before leaving to dry overnight. Don't recommend smoking while you do this.

    Save your used alcohol in glass jars, and after a couple sessions your bath #2 alcohol can become your bath #1, and burn the bath #1 juice (better than letting it evaporate).

  12. #2112
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    261
    Regarding dowels... just buy a bung cutter and make your own out of any good hardwood scrap you already have.

    https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...uct.do?pid=501

    Also, thickening your epoxy with something West System 403 microfibers will add some structure to the epoxy and increase strength.

  13. #2113
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlecross View Post
    Regarding dowels... just buy a bung cutter and make your own out of any good hardwood scrap you already have.
    https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...uct.do?pid=501
    Interesting, the OCD among us could use this tool to make hardwood plugs that could be aligned with the wood fibers in the ski core.

    Won't be me though, even though I thought of it. I have a bag of aluminum 5/16" bolts for that.

  14. #2114
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    Nov 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Gotcha. Could also Helicoil the hole for the 5/16" insert, although that starts becoming a really big hole. QK Rescue Inserts would be another option: https://quiverkiller.com/products/qk...inserts-4-pack
    Had considered both however the epoxy was complete garbage and failed on 2 skis even with 2 baths of acetone prior (tried to support the local hardware store and the product was just too old). So HC on 2 sets of skis was simply not an option. But damn I am always learning things on here.

  15. #2115
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    Oct 2014
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    I started a dating advice app because I always need advice

    Charmed Chat lets you tinder for your friends

  16. #2116
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    So when you tap them with a die, they're actually hard enough so a thread forms?

    That was my problem with the over the counter "maple" dowels - shredded threads.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  17. #2117
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    67
    McMaster Carr has really good theaded inserts.. softwood and hardwood threads... way cheaper than quiverkiller, whom I would wager is just reselling this stuff:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts

  18. #2118
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    285
    Quote Originally Posted by ExPowderSnob View Post
    McMaster Carr has really good theaded inserts.. softwood and hardwood threads... way cheaper than quiverkiller, whom I would wager is just reselling this stuff:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts
    Besides the minor detail that the QK and BF inserts are sealed in the bottom. I.e. any water that finds its way down the threads will not have a chance of reaching the ski's core, as opposed to bottom open inserts of helicoil types.

  19. #2119
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Whistler
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExPowderSnob View Post
    McMaster Carr has really good theaded inserts.. softwood and hardwood threads... way cheaper than quiverkiller, whom I would wager is just reselling this stuff:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts
    Thanks JONG, way to join the conversation with uninformed opinion.
    Last edited by Dee Hubbs; 10-10-2019 at 04:28 PM.

  20. #2120
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    Jun 2018
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    Portland, OR
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    521
    Quote Originally Posted by ExPowderSnob View Post
    McMaster Carr has really good theaded inserts.. softwood and hardwood threads... way cheaper than quiverkiller, whom I would wager is just reselling this stuff:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts
    Not sure who actually casts the ski inserts, but they're made to a custom spec. You won't find them outside the ski industry. You can find old threads here about the development of the BG inserts if you want more history on that. I think even ski helicoils are specialized to accept ski wood screw threads instead of metal threads. Even the regular ski wood screws are made to order for the equipment manufacturers, and a lot of them are damn near impossible to find if you're a regular bloke. Speaking of which, if anyone has a line on some marker heel plate, 5.5x12mm pan head screws, I'm all ears!

  21. #2121
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    Dec 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    Not sure who actually casts the ski inserts, but they're made to a custom spec.
    They're probably made from 5/16" stainless all-thread rod, blind drilled/tapped/cut on a CNC lathe. The outer thread is rolled by the rod manufacturer, but I call BS on the inner threads being rolled. They appear to be cut with a tap or turned, which is the logical way to do it. Could be wrong, but can't imagine a rolling die fitting in a 5mm hole.

  22. #2122
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    Jun 2018
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    Portland, OR
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    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    They're probably made from 5/16" stainless all-thread rod, drilled/tapped/cut on a CNC lathe. The outer thread is rolled by the rod manufacturer, but I call BS on the inner threads being rolled. They appear to be cut with a tap, which is the logical way to do it.
    I'm pretty sure at least the BF inserts are cold cast and then tapped. I remember reading that they leave the flecks of flashing on the outer threads to grab the ski core better. Could be a cast allthread, though. I don't know. There's an image of the surface roughness somewhere.

    Edit: yeah, rolled maybe. Inner threads tapped

  23. #2123
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    ^ Really doubt they're cast when all-threaded rolled rod is readily available, extremely strong, relatively inexpensive, and can be feed through a CNC screw machine in 40' lengths. Casting them would increase the fuckery 10X, and there would be a parting line on the inserts unless they were investment cast, which is generally only done for high-quality golf club heads or other $$$ precision items.

    Whoever said that was probably trying to "explain" burrs or marks resulting from a dull cutting tool, machine vibration, etc. Turn sloppy machine work (that doesn't hurt anything, so who cares) into an "intentional feature".

  24. #2124
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    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    ^ Really doubt they're cast when all-threaded rolled rod is readily available, extremely strong, relatively inexpensive, and can be feed through a CNC screw machine in 40' lengths. Casting them would increase the fuckery 10X, and there would be a parting line on the inserts unless they were investment cast, which is generally only done for high-quality golf club heads or other $$$ precision items.

    Whoever said that was probably trying to "explain" burrs or marks resulting from a dull cutting tool, machine vibration, etc. Turn sloppy machine work (that doesn't hurt anything, so who cares) into an "intentional feature".
    Yeah, no what really happened is I read something a long time ago and can't fucking remember what I read now. I'll post it if I find it, although your response above could likely be inserted above or below once I do. My point was more about how McMaster/Carr inserts != (BF//QC) inserts.

    Edit:
    Stainless steel inserts chemically passivated for epoxy retention

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...76#post3727076

  25. #2125
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    "intentional feature".
    Found it! You're right, the threads are rolled. I'm a metal caster and I don't know shit about rolled threads, so I just assume everything is cast and then machined.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...BindingFreedom

    LOL. It was you who posted the surface detail photo. I'm sure I read a statement somewhere about the surface roughness being grippier for epoxy bonding, but that would've been made irrelevant by the later chemical passivation.

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