The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[TahoeJ]

The Ravens are extremely stiff underfoot where the bindings sit, so it can't be an overflexing issue in this case. Or if it is, then that's a serious problem.

[margotron]

@reckless -- you really think the nubbin is popping out? Still find that impossible.

@TahoeJ -- agree.

@judo -- when you looked at the binding and took it off, was the binding still connected to the nubbin or had it popped off?

[burrito]

The Ravens are extremely stiff underfoot where the bindings sit, so it can't be an overflexing issue in this case. Or if it is, then that's a serious problem.

I gotta think this has more to do with the fact that the two underfoot screws are responsible for taking 99% of the force that would cause a pull out. The front nub isn't always engaged depending on the shape of the ski and whether or not the ski is being flexed a certain way, and all the rear screws are doing, by virtue of the barely attached plastic slider they sit in, is holding the AFD in place.

[margotron]

I gotta think this has more to do with the fact that the two underfoot screws are responsible for taking 99% of the force that would cause a pull out. The front nub isn't always engaged depending on the shape of the ski and whether or not the skis is being flexed a certain way, and all the rear screws are doing, by virtue of the barely attached plastic slider they sit in, is holding the AFD in place.

Glad I run inserts

[burrito]

Quick AFD drop update: Went the route of adjusting upward until it was barely touching the sole and then turning another 1/4 or 1/2 turn until there was a tiny bit of resistance between the AFD and the sole when sliding it with a finger from the side. Spend a solid touring day last weekend and a resort day this weekend with no noticeable drop. No wrecks that would have justified a release, but no pre-releases either.

[1000-oaks]

Salomon could provide wide-thread tele binding screws (6mm thread OD, but same root diameter as regular binding screws) for those two load-bearing locations in the toe. Like G3 Ion toe screws, or the ones B&D provides.

[detrusor]

Gotta think my praxis made Lhasa fats are robust enough not to have this problem.

The change to a oblong nubbin seems the cheapest retrofit as long as reliable way to prevent rotation can be figured out


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[comish]

Does anybody know what the current status of the Maestrale RS / Shift compatibility issue is? I'm hearing so many different opinions - and people are obviously skiing the Shift with Maestrale RS?! Really confusing. At least I think Scarpa says there are no issues...

Footloose's position is that the sole of the boot needs to be stamped with the DIN certification. 9523 in the case of touring boots. Scarpa claims the Maestrale is compatible here: https://www.scarpa.com/community/blo...lity-standards

They don't specify Gen 1 and 2 or have a date on that press release.

The only issue I had heard of previously was with the Dynafit Quick Step inserts the Maestrale's have, but Footloose didn't care about that and wasn't even aware of the potential issue. Purely wanted them stamped with the DIN ISO cert. I would take that press release in, but you should be fine even though I wasn't.

[Norseman]

Re. boot tech inserts...

I use older Vulcans. Noticed some denting of the Shift toepiece rollers... looking closely, the raised ridges of the pin cups were indeed making contact with the rollers.

Yesterday I carefully dremeled the ridges down flush with the rest of the toe welt profile. I didn't think to take before/after measurements, but it appears that there's a little bit more engagement of the boot toe in the toepiece wings.

Still not much grip compared to a real Alpine clamp, but I feel better about not damaging the toe rollers at least.

A mediocre potential workaround for those with "non-compatible" inserts.

[galibier_numero_un]

The Ravens are extremely stiff underfoot where the bindings sit, so it can't be an overflexing issue in this case. Or if it is, then that's a serious problem.

^^^ This, and @spyderjon did a flex analysis with a soft ski (somewhere earlier in this thread) - proving that when correctly mounted, the toe didn't pop out.^^^

My bet is for a very tight fore/aft spec for the location of the front nubbin.

Have we confirmed that the location in @lucknau's template is at the factory specified distance?

I think @spyderjon verified consistency between the factory jig and one of the templates a month or two ago.

... Thom

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

[detrusor]

I wonder where my jigarex plate is in comparison to the actual jig?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[SkiLyft]

Glad I run inserts

This x a million.

Inserts with gflex makes this issue obsolete. Also inserts make for a kick ass travel binder especially if you run inserts on those 2 screws as the toe and heel will fully remove!


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Judo Chop!]

@judo -- when you looked at the binding and took it off, was the binding still connected to the nubbin or had it popped off?

the toepiece was 5ft in front of me.

RE: flexing a Raven.... I'm 6'6". I can flex a Raven.

Also, yes, these were mounted with a shop jig.

I agree with Burrito's assessment. It does seem like those two screws are carrying the bulk of the load. Super weird that they would design it so that during mounting you slide the binding BACK. If they like that nubbin mounting concept (presumably so that they can have a mount point without runing a screw where the spring would interfere), why not have it slide forward to mount, so that the pressures of skiing help it engage further instead. that part is poor design, IMO.

So what's my solution here mags? helicoils? I'm thinking T-Nut through the base. I thought I remember seeing some for sale somewhere that accepted standing binding screw threads and had p-tex already bonded. Can't find though. Anyone?

[comish]

Here is Scarpa's response as I figured:

"Customer Service <customerservice@scarpa.com>
To: Comish
Feb 4 at 12:54 PM
Hey Comish,

As far as compatibility they definitely work. You could show them that article or have them give us a call and I’d be happy to discuss it with them. We are stamping the ISO 9523 on current run boots, but it wasn’t an issue back when those came out. "

[reckless toboggan]

the toepiece was 5ft in front of me.

Ahhh. I didn't read it that way. When you said pulled out, I thought you meant the nubbin came out of the slot, similar to the previous incident. I agree with you, a full pull out is because your a big dude that can bend ski and that's a lot of force on only two screws and a nubbin.

To clarify, you're saying the two screws and the nubbin all pulled clean out of the ski at the same time?

Edit to add:

Re-looked at the picture.

To me it looks like the nubbin is still in the ski, and when flexed a lot, the nubbin could have dropped out of the slot, and then the two screws failed.

Seems like the same as the previous failure mode taken to its logical, if catastrophic, conclusion.

I think that failure mode is ski flex, nubbin drops from slot, screws 2 and 3 go bye bye. But that's just my internet conjecture.

[train07]

the toepiece was 5ft in front of me.

RE: flexing a Raven.... I'm 6'6". I can flex a Raven.

Also, yes, these were mounted with a shop jig.

I agree with Burrito's assessment. It does seem like those two screws are carrying the bulk of the load. Super weird that they would design it so that during mounting you slide the binding BACK. If they like that nubbin mounting concept (presumably so that they can have a mount point without runing a screw where the spring would interfere), why not have it slide forward to mount, so that the pressures of skiing help it engage further instead. that part is poor design, IMO.

So what's my solution here mags? helicoils? I'm thinking T-Nut through the base. I thought I remember seeing some for sale somewhere that accepted standing binding screw threads and had p-tex already bonded. Can't find though. Anyone?

at post #17 in this link the T-nut work sure looks good
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ace-lhasa-pows

[Colin_N]

Can anyone tell me if the Scott Cosmos III boot is compatible with the SHIFT? Just went to get my new bindings mounted to my skis and the guy in the shop said that as the boots weren't ISO 9523 then they weren't compatible.... but the (different) shop which sold me the boots think they are ISO touring compatible!

The only thing listed on the website is that the boot is ISO Touring (UNI) compatible with Dynafit certified inserts - no mention of 9523 anywhere.

[margotron]

the toepiece was 5ft in front of me.

No shit? That does change my impression

So what's my solution here mags? helicoils? I'm thinking T-Nut through the base. I thought I remember seeing some for sale somewhere that accepted standing binding screw threads and had p-tex already bonded. Can't find though. Anyone?

T-Nut will certainly hold them, like, forever. Regular Binding Freedoms should work too.

[Spyderjon]

Can anyone tell me if the Scott Cosmos III boot is compatible with the SHIFT?.......

Yes it is.

[SupreChicken]

So...every shift toe piece should be inserted at screws 2 and 3. True or false?

[burrito]

So...every shift toe piece should be inserted at screws 2 and 3. True or false?

I don’t think we’ve seen enough to justify that. This recent post seems to be the only full-blown pull out here. If I remember correctly the one previous was dubious as to whether or not the shop mounted it properly. If you have them handy, I guess go for inserts and the extra peace of mind.

[lucknau]

I recall we had a discussion awhile back about the template and where it placed the front nubbin in relation to the jig. Namely, the jig placed the nubbin further back than the template. Do we have a preferred template between the following two? They differ from each other:

Here is a link to Lucknau's most recent template: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XvK...cLQlLRviX/view

Here is a link to Knut's / Powderguides: https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...yYY6Gg2a3Dd245

I printed both templates and compared to the binding - Powderguide's version is not correct.
I used Lucknau's version and moved the nubbing a further 1 mm to 65.5mm for better retention. I think his first version put the nubbin at 66mm (jig is at 64.5mm as is current template).

This thread is too busy for me. I can't keep up. I mounted mine at 66mm. Been abusing my bindings pretty well, with no issues so far. If I mount them again on different skis I'll probably go 65.5 or 66 again. I don't like the jig location for the button, but there was some consensus to make the template match the jig, so I did that and kept my preferred version for my own use.

[Colin_N]

Yes it is.

Cool - I’ve just had confirmation from Scott that this is the case:

“I can confirm that the Cosmos III boot is ISO 9523 compatible. Moving forward it will be printed on the sole of boot but previous versions (2018, 2019) it was not.”

[lazyasian]

I noticed that, too, but have been scared to try it. It'll lock in easily with no boot, but when there's a boot in, it's so hard to move that I'm afraid I'm gonna fuck it up. Will give it a try.



Mine do that, too. Seems like it's on one side, too.
Turn hard left, no noise
Turn hard right, yes noise
Swap left ski to right foot, no noise.

Someone said raise the AFD 1/2 turn. I haven't checked yet to see if that fixed it. Really seems like the AFD worm drive is indexed, but maybe not in small enough increments, or maybe it's only a problem when using downhill boots?

I've had this issue as well. Even with the AFD a bit past flush, I can see the boot toe moving 2mm or so up and down when I step in on the floor and press down on the toes and then lift the toes up. Seems like quite a bit of slop.

Is this expected? If so, it's no surprise that soft toes are getting chewed through!

[Gnar_Shralp406]

Am I the only one?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk