The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

**californiagrown** · 03-01-2021, 10:09 PM

I've had 3 prereleases on my shifts. All on powdays. 2 have been one ski releasing to the side on compressions and I've skied away. Another one was popping around in pow on the side of a green where I double ejected out the front to lawndart faceplant waist deep upside down... The lady troller behind me was bent over laughing having a hard time getting out the words "are you all good?".

As far as I can tell they are set up correctly. I've checked at home after each instance. It's a real bummer to have to ski on eggshells with them.

**GoldenBC** · 03-01-2021, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by californiagrown

I've had 3 prereleases on my shifts. All on powdays. 2 have been one ski releasing to the side on compressions and I've skied away. Another one was popping around in pow on the side of a green where I double ejected out the front to lawndart faceplant waist deep upside down... The lady troller behind me was bent over laughing having a hard time getting out the words "are you all good?".

As far as I can tell they are set up correctly. I've checked at home after each instance. It's a real bummer to have to ski on eggshells with them.

Something is not right, or you weigh over 200lbs. Try getting a good shop to check them out. Coming from a guy who cut his ass completely in half with a shift prereleasing, you don't have to ski on egg shells. They aren't Pivots, but they are pretty solid.

**S_jenks** · 03-01-2021, 10:51 PM

It’s quite something to read through this thread while still kicking it on my F12 frame bindings.

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**roverdoc** · 03-02-2021, 01:41 AM

Two seasons on my shifts and zero problems. Ski toured the last couple of days and brakes stayed up and toes stayed locked in walk mode. I have been with others that had to strap their toes and have seen pre releases. So many variables between which boot and set up. When they work they are fantastic for that they are

**californiagrown** · 03-02-2021, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Something is not right, or you weigh over 200lbs. Try getting a good shop to check them out. Coming from a guy who cut his ass completely in half with a shift prereleasing, you don't have to ski on egg shells. They aren't Pivots, but they are pretty solid.

6'4", 195lbs. Usually run a 13 din, am running 12 on the shifts. Doesn't ski like a 12 din. Back to the garage to quadruple check setup.

**tgapp** · 03-02-2021, 08:35 PM

Question for the collective:

The AFDs on my wife's shifts have wildly different values. Forward pressure is the same on each, but unless the AFD on her left ski is cranked way high, there is a ton of play in the toes. Pictures below are the left and right AFD heights. What gives here??

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**GravityDT** · 03-02-2021, 09:15 PM

I’ve had Zero issues on my ‘21 Shifts and they have prob 40-50 days mostly inbounds with a handful of side country laps. 190lbs at DIN of 10 and zero prereleases. Running Maestrale XTs and occasionally some LUPO 120s. I also have a pr of the original ‘18/19 Shifts on some Bent Chets and again zero issues. Something is wonky with your setup either actual adjustment or maybe even a boot issue.....

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**dcpnz** · 03-02-2021, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by tgapp

Question for the collective:

The AFDs on my wife's shifts have wildly different values. Forward pressure is the same on each, but unless the AFD on her left ski is cranked way high, there is a ton of play in the toes. Pictures below are the left and right AFD heights. What gives here??

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AFD in that first pic is not even close to being adjusted properly.
Look at the gap above the toe lug. Boot is obviously sitting alot lower than other picture. No wonder there is alot of play.
You got to pull back on the cuff to lift the toe before adjusting the afd height.
Did it come out of a shop like that or did you MYOFS?

**GoldenBC** · 03-02-2021, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by tgapp

Question for the collective:

The AFDs on my wife's shifts have wildly different values. Forward pressure is the same on each, but unless the AFD on her left ski is cranked way high, there is a ton of play in the toes. Pictures below are the left and right AFD heights. What gives here??

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As dude above said, your toe lug is hooked on the little black lip that is lower than the toe wings. Look a little closer and you will instantly see the big gap above the toe lug.

**tgapp** · 03-02-2021, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by GoldenBC

As dude above said, your toe lug is hooked on the little black lip that is lower than the toe wings. Look a little closer and you will instantly see the big gap above the toe lug.

I see exactly what both of you are saying. Fixed it. Thank you a fuckton.

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**thefortrees** · 03-02-2021, 11:48 PM

I find that the best way to avoid shift issues is to bring two pairs of skis - alpine clamps for the resort, ski down to the car, grab your skis with real tech bindings, then head out for a walk.

**rod9301** · 03-03-2021, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by thefortrees

I find that the best way to avoid shift issues is to bring two pairs of skis - alpine clamps for the resort, ski down to the car, grab your skis with real tech bindings, then head out for a walk.

How true

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**whyturn** · 03-03-2021, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by thefortrees

I find that the best way to avoid shift issues is to bring two pairs of skis - alpine clamps for the resort, ski down to the car, grab your skis with real tech bindings, then head out for a walk.

I believe this is called alpine touring. 50/50 does not exist in my mind. The right tool for the job! I get the marketing though and talk to everyone I see with them at the resort to get their thoughts It’s a mixed bag of responses, kind of like this thread

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**dcpnz** · 03-03-2021, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by tgapp

Not to be unduly harsh on tgapp here but if this is how shifts are routinely being adjusted in shops and garages its no fricken wonder theres a 2,000 post thread with people complaining about shifts falling off and prereleasing.

**tgapp** · 03-03-2021, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by dcpnz

Not to be unduly harsh on tgapp here but if this is how shifts are routinely being adjusted in shops and garages its no fricken wonder theres a 2,000 post thread with people complaining about shifts falling off and prereleasing.

yep so what happened was my wife took her skis to the resort (without me) and called me nearly in tears asking why she couldn't step in. i tried to talk her through everything on the phone, but after failing to help her, i told her to go to the rental shop and ask super nicely if a tech could look at her bindings to see what was wrong. they graciously "helped" her out, but when the skis came back, they looked as pictured above (two wildly different settings). it took me a minute, but as soon as i posted in this thread i figured it out and got both AFDs set properly.

and re: other comments about dedicated alpine gear and touring gear, i am in 100% agreement. the deal is though, wifey wanted the exact same ski for hut trips and for resort days and for fitness laps. i couldn't get her onboard with the n+1 ski buying mentality, so here we are.

**jdadour** · 03-03-2021, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by dcpnz

Not to be unduly harsh on tgapp here but if this is how shifts are routinely being adjusted in shops and garages its no fricken wonder theres a 2,000 post thread with people complaining about shifts falling off and prereleasing.

Maybe one should adjust the AFD before completely tightening the forward pressure? I could see a tight forward pressure causing this type of gap between the toe piece and top of the toe lug, because as you are raising the AFD you could meet too much resistance from the forward pressure pushing against the toe piece. Loosen it up a bit, and it may move more freely and eliminate the gap.

**HAB** · 03-03-2021, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by jdadour

Maybe one should adjust the AFD before completely tightening the forward pressure? I could see a tight forward pressure causing this type of gap between the toe piece and top of the toe lug, because as you are raising the AFD you could meet too much resistance from the forward pressure pushing against the toe piece. Loosen it up a bit, and it may move more freely and eliminate the gap.

All you need to do is to shove your forearm into the cuff of the boot, and pull back to get the toe welt to sit where it's supposed to. Then adjust the AFD until it comes up to meet the boot sole. Easy.

**meter-man** · 03-03-2021, 12:33 PM

As much as I wanted to love them, I freaking hate my Shifts - and purely from a pre-release perspective. Pre-releases on 4 different days (the first day with multiple incidents until I dialed them in). And yes I've done all the adjustments, memorized LeeLau's adjustment bible, massaged them, whispered sweet-nothings into their ears, and tried them with several boots. My last pre-release was in exposed terrain and led me to tumble through rocks. (Light Towers at Squaw; tumbling through rocks on that run killed CR Johnson.) Needless to say, I won't be using them again.

Should I try and warranty the Shifts for a faulty AFD? It always seems to be the AFD drop in my experience, but I cannot see any visual evidence of a problem with the AFD system. I've been following this thread loosely from the beginning, but no way I can remember 119 pages of posts.

Does anyone know why they chose to use a stepped screw for the AFD adjustment? Was that supposed to be better than a regular worm screw?

Guess I'll be going back to my pre-Shift-MO so nicely stated by thefortrees - alpine binders for resort, touring binders for walks.

**rod9301** · 03-03-2021, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by meter-man

As much as I wanted to love them, I freaking hate my Shifts - and purely from a pre-release perspective. Pre-releases on 4 different days (the first day with multiple incidents until I dialed them in). And yes I've done all the adjustments, memorized LeeLau's adjustment bible, massaged them, whispered sweet-nothings into their ears, and tried them with several boots. My last pre-release was in exposed terrain and led me to tumble through rocks. (Light Towers at Squaw; tumbling through rocks on that run killed CR Johnson.) Needless to say, I won't be using them again.

Should I try and warranty the Shifts for a faulty AFD? It always seems to be the AFD drop in my experience, but I cannot see any visual evidence of a problem with the AFD system. I've been following this thread loosely from the beginning, but no way I can remember 119 pages of posts.

Does anyone know why they chose to use a stepped screw for the AFD adjustment? Was that supposed to be better than a regular worm screw?

Guess I'll be going back to my pre-Shift-MO so nicely stated by thefortrees - alpine binders for resort, touring binders for walks.

Falling in light towers is no fun. Sell them.

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**jdadour** · 03-03-2021, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by meter-man

massaged them, whispered sweet-nothings into their ears

Oh the things we will do for our gear haha Sorry to hear these didnt work out for you! Its weird how there is such a dichotomy of experiences with this binding, and no concrete reason why some people are still having issues.

Seems like a better adjusting AFD, or fixed AFD with 2 options that swap (like CAST), would solve a lot of the potential problems.

On the other hand, I switched from CAST back to Shift because the whole AFD piece and white AFD teflon pad would sometimes break off (even after applying JB Weld). Seemed like a finicky design and unreliable. Although, I think the new version of CAST resolved these issues.

**Spyderjon** · 03-03-2021, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by meter-man

.......Does anyone know why they chose to use a stepped screw for the AFD adjustment? Was that supposed to be better than a regular worm screw?.......

Pretty sure that it'll be to avoid a patent violation - probably with Marker as they most likely patented the height adjustable AFD on their Duke/Baron/Tour bindings and then used the same design on their ID toes and now on the new PT. Until the Shifts, all of Salomons toe height adjustment models consisted on a fixed AFD with height adjustable toe wings, ie Driver, STH, Guardian, Warden etc.

**Judo Chop!** · 03-03-2021, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by meter-man

As much as I wanted to love them, I freaking hate my Shifts - and purely from a pre-release perspective. Pre-releases on 4 different days (the first day with multiple incidents until I dialed them in). And yes I've done all the adjustments, memorized LeeLau's adjustment bible, massaged them, whispered sweet-nothings into their ears, and tried them with several boots. My last pre-release was in exposed terrain and led me to tumble through rocks. (Light Towers at Squaw; tumbling through rocks on that run killed CR Johnson.) Needless to say, I won't be using them again.

Should I try and warranty the Shifts for a faulty AFD? It always seems to be the AFD drop in my experience, but I cannot see any visual evidence of a problem with the AFD system. I've been following this thread loosely from the beginning, but no way I can remember 119 pages of posts.

Does anyone know why they chose to use a stepped screw for the AFD adjustment? Was that supposed to be better than a regular worm screw?

Guess I'll be going back to my pre-Shift-MO so nicely stated by thefortrees - alpine binders for resort, touring binders for walks.

CAST Touring

**jhyatt** · 03-03-2021, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by thefortrees

I find that the best way to avoid shift issues is to bring two pairs of skis - alpine clamps for the resort, ski down to the car, grab your skis with real tech bindings, then head out for a walk.

Exactly

**jhyatt** · 03-03-2021, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by GravityDT

I’ve had Zero issues on my ‘21 Shifts and they have prob 40-50 days mostly inbounds with a handful of side country laps. 190lbs at DIN of 10 and zero prereleases. Running Maestrale XTs and occasionally some LUPO 120s. I also have a pr of the original ‘18/19 Shifts on some Bent Chets and again zero issues. Something is wonky with your setup either actual adjustment or maybe even a boot issue.....

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This is most people on shifts with no problems. Mostly or all inbounds. You would be better off and have extra money with sth2 or warden.

**jhyatt** · 03-03-2021, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by meter-man

As much as I wanted to love them, I freaking hate my Shifts - and purely from a pre-release perspective. Pre-releases on 4 different days (the first day with multiple incidents until I dialed them in). And yes I've done all the adjustments, memorized LeeLau's adjustment bible, massaged them, whispered sweet-nothings into their ears, and tried them with several boots. My last pre-release was in exposed terrain and led me to tumble through rocks. (Light Towers at Squaw; tumbling through rocks on that run killed CR Johnson.) Needless to say, I won't be using them again.

Should I try and warranty the Shifts for a faulty AFD? It always seems to be the AFD drop in my experience, but I cannot see any visual evidence of a problem with the AFD system. I've been following this thread loosely from the beginning, but no way I can remember 119 pages of posts.

Does anyone know why they chose to use a stepped screw for the AFD adjustment? Was that supposed to be better than a regular worm screw?

Guess I'll be going back to my pre-Shift-MO so nicely stated by thefortrees - alpine binders for resort, touring binders for walks.

Same experience here. What I did: Sell them NOW and get good money. Get a touri g setup with MTN and resort with STH.