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  1. #2101
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Curious why redrilling was necessary, unless the threads in the ski tore out. Wouldn't it be possible to just smear some fresh epoxy into the tapped hole and a bit on the insert threads and reinstall it?
    Reinstalling in same threads would caus a more or less weaker bond between old cheap crap epoxy and new stuff. Redrilling is the only sensible way to do it if it's not for solving an emergency issue with no possibility to drill and plug

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  2. #2102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkiLyft View Post
    given the sliding/locking mechanism when the insert failed I majorly buggered up the hole when removing/extracting the spinning insert (on those two main center screws you need to physically have the whole screw back out to remove the binder - in my case the insert would just spin not allowing me to remove the screw) .
    Gotcha. Could also Helicoil the hole for the 5/16" insert, although that starts becoming a really big hole. QK Rescue Inserts would be another option: https://quiverkiller.com/products/qk...inserts-4-pack

    Quote Originally Posted by bioicon View Post
    Reinstalling in same threads would caus a more or less weaker bond between old cheap crap epoxy and new stuff. Redrilling is the only sensible way to do it if it's not for solving an emergency issue with no possibility to drill and plug
    If there were still good 5/16" threads in the ski, you wouldn't catch me plugging/redrilling/retapping the insert hole. The threads in the ski provide a lot more attachment than the epoxy, which mostly just seals out water. Plugging/redrilling/retapping perfectly good threads simply replaces good threads with questionable ones, even if "better" epoxy is used on round two.

  3. #2103
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Gotcha. Could also Helicoil the hole for the 5/16" insert, although that starts becoming a really big hole. QK Rescue Inserts would be another option: https://quiverkiller.com/products/qk...inserts-4-pack



    If there were still good 5/16" threads in the ski, you wouldn't catch me plugging/redrilling/retapping the insert hole. The threads in the ski provide a lot more attachment than the epoxy, which mostly just seals out water. Plugging/redrilling/retapping perfectly good threads simply replaces good threads with questionable ones, even if "better" epoxy is used on round two.
    Speaking of which, has anyone found hardwood dowels that are actually hard?

    The stuff at the hardware stores is meh, so I ordered some maple dowels from Amazon and it was more or less the same stuff.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  4. #2104
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Gotcha. Could also Helicoil the hole for the 5/16" insert, although that starts becoming a really big hole. QK Rescue Inserts would be another option: https://quiverkiller.com/products/qk...inserts-4-pack



    If there were still good 5/16" threads in the ski, you wouldn't catch me plugging/redrilling/retapping the insert hole. The threads in the ski provide a lot more attachment than the epoxy, which mostly just seals out water. Plugging/redrilling/retapping perfectly good threads simply replaces good threads with questionable ones, even if "better" epoxy is used on round two.
    I agree on that. On second thought the bad epoxy probably bonds good enough to the ski, but not too the insert. So better quality epoxy should bond good enough to the insert and make the insert not wind back out.

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk

  5. #2105
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    There's a model ship supply store that has hardwood dowels in metric diameters. Unfortunately you'll have to look through all items that contain the word "dowel":

    https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce...r=name&q=Dowel

  6. #2106
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    Quote Originally Posted by bioicon View Post
    I agree on that. On second thought the bad epoxy probably bonds good enough to the ski, but not too the insert. So better quality epoxy should bond good enough to the insert and make the insert not wind back out.

    Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk
    Don't forget to decrease the inserts. I use my wife's ultrasonic jewelry cleaner along with a bit of Simple Green.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    There's a model ship supply store that has hardwood dowels in metric diameters. Unfortunately you'll have to look through all items that contain the word "dowel":

    https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce...r=name&q=Dowel
    Thanks!

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  7. #2107
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    I use two baths of denatured alcohol in aluminum pie pans to clean the cutting oil from new inserts, and then shaking them in a cheap kitchen collander before leaving to dry overnight. Don't recommend smoking while you do this.

    Save your used alcohol in glass jars, and after a couple sessions your bath #2 alcohol can become your bath #1, and burn the bath #1 juice (better than letting it evaporate).

  8. #2108
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    Regarding dowels... just buy a bung cutter and make your own out of any good hardwood scrap you already have.

    https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...uct.do?pid=501

    Also, thickening your epoxy with something West System 403 microfibers will add some structure to the epoxy and increase strength.

  9. #2109
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlecross View Post
    Regarding dowels... just buy a bung cutter and make your own out of any good hardwood scrap you already have.
    https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...uct.do?pid=501
    Interesting, the OCD among us could use this tool to make hardwood plugs that could be aligned with the wood fibers in the ski core.

    Won't be me though, even though I thought of it. I have a bag of aluminum 5/16" bolts for that.

  10. #2110
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    Nov 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Gotcha. Could also Helicoil the hole for the 5/16" insert, although that starts becoming a really big hole. QK Rescue Inserts would be another option: https://quiverkiller.com/products/qk...inserts-4-pack
    Had considered both however the epoxy was complete garbage and failed on 2 skis even with 2 baths of acetone prior (tried to support the local hardware store and the product was just too old). So HC on 2 sets of skis was simply not an option. But damn I am always learning things on here.

  11. #2111
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  12. #2112
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    So when you tap them with a die, they're actually hard enough so a thread forms?

    That was my problem with the over the counter "maple" dowels - shredded threads.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  13. #2113
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    Jan 2015
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    236
    McMaster Carr has really good theaded inserts.. softwood and hardwood threads... way cheaper than quiverkiller, whom I would wager is just reselling this stuff:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts

  14. #2114
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExPowderSnob View Post
    McMaster Carr has really good theaded inserts.. softwood and hardwood threads... way cheaper than quiverkiller, whom I would wager is just reselling this stuff:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts
    Besides the minor detail that the QK and BF inserts are sealed in the bottom. I.e. any water that finds its way down the threads will not have a chance of reaching the ski's core, as opposed to bottom open inserts of helicoil types.

  15. #2115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExPowderSnob View Post
    McMaster Carr has really good theaded inserts.. softwood and hardwood threads... way cheaper than quiverkiller, whom I would wager is just reselling this stuff:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts
    Thanks JONG, way to join the conversation with uninformed opinion.
    Last edited by Dee Hubbs; 10-10-2019 at 04:28 PM.

  16. #2116
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExPowderSnob View Post
    McMaster Carr has really good theaded inserts.. softwood and hardwood threads... way cheaper than quiverkiller, whom I would wager is just reselling this stuff:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-inserts
    Not sure who actually casts the ski inserts, but they're made to a custom spec. You won't find them outside the ski industry. You can find old threads here about the development of the BG inserts if you want more history on that. I think even ski helicoils are specialized to accept ski wood screw threads instead of metal threads. Even the regular ski wood screws are made to order for the equipment manufacturers, and a lot of them are damn near impossible to find if you're a regular bloke. Speaking of which, if anyone has a line on some marker heel plate, 5.5x12mm pan head screws, I'm all ears!

  17. #2117
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    Not sure who actually casts the ski inserts, but they're made to a custom spec.
    They're probably made from 5/16" stainless all-thread rod, blind drilled/tapped/cut on a CNC lathe. The outer thread is rolled by the rod manufacturer, but I call BS on the inner threads being rolled. They appear to be cut with a tap or turned, which is the logical way to do it. Could be wrong, but can't imagine a rolling die fitting in a 5mm hole.

  18. #2118
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    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    They're probably made from 5/16" stainless all-thread rod, drilled/tapped/cut on a CNC lathe. The outer thread is rolled by the rod manufacturer, but I call BS on the inner threads being rolled. They appear to be cut with a tap, which is the logical way to do it.
    I'm pretty sure at least the BF inserts are cold cast and then tapped. I remember reading that they leave the flecks of flashing on the outer threads to grab the ski core better. Could be a cast allthread, though. I don't know. There's an image of the surface roughness somewhere.

    Edit: yeah, rolled maybe. Inner threads tapped

  19. #2119
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    ^ Really doubt they're cast when all-threaded rolled rod is readily available, extremely strong, relatively inexpensive, and can be feed through a CNC screw machine in 40' lengths. Casting them would increase the fuckery 10X, and there would be a parting line on the inserts unless they were investment cast, which is generally only done for high-quality golf club heads or other $$$ precision items.

    Whoever said that was probably trying to "explain" burrs or marks resulting from a dull cutting tool, machine vibration, etc. Turn sloppy machine work (that doesn't hurt anything, so who cares) into an "intentional feature".

  20. #2120
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    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    ^ Really doubt they're cast when all-threaded rolled rod is readily available, extremely strong, relatively inexpensive, and can be feed through a CNC screw machine in 40' lengths. Casting them would increase the fuckery 10X, and there would be a parting line on the inserts unless they were investment cast, which is generally only done for high-quality golf club heads or other $$$ precision items.

    Whoever said that was probably trying to "explain" burrs or marks resulting from a dull cutting tool, machine vibration, etc. Turn sloppy machine work (that doesn't hurt anything, so who cares) into an "intentional feature".
    Yeah, no what really happened is I read something a long time ago and can't fucking remember what I read now. I'll post it if I find it, although your response above could likely be inserted above or below once I do. My point was more about how McMaster/Carr inserts != (BF//QC) inserts.

    Edit:
    Stainless steel inserts chemically passivated for epoxy retention

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...76#post3727076

  21. #2121
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    "intentional feature".
    Found it! You're right, the threads are rolled. I'm a metal caster and I don't know shit about rolled threads, so I just assume everything is cast and then machined.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...BindingFreedom

    LOL. It was you who posted the surface detail photo. I'm sure I read a statement somewhere about the surface roughness being grippier for epoxy bonding, but that would've been made irrelevant by the later chemical passivation.

  22. #2122
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    Hmm, not familiar with passivating stainless, lol. Aluminum sure, but stainless...calling BS.

    Not to bore folks to death, but stainless steel can actually rust if you paint it or coat it with something. Exposure to oxygen is what allows the chromium content to oxidize on the surface, creating a barrier to stop the iron below from oxidizing/rusting.

  23. #2123
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    Found it! You're right, the threads are rolled. I'm a metal caster and I don't know shit about rolled threads, so I just assume everything is cast and then machined.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...BindingFreedom

    LOL. It was you who posted the surface detail photo. I'm sure I read a statement somewhere about the surface roughness being grippier for epoxy bonding, but that would've been made irrelevant by the later chemical passivation.
    I'd guess they start with stainless rod as well, for reasons @1000-oaks stated

    ...Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  24. #2124
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Hmm, not familiar with passivating stainless, lol. Aluminum sure, but stainless...calling BS.

    Not to bore folks to death, but stainless steel can actually rust if you paint it or coat it with something. Exposure to oxygen is what allows the chromium content to oxidize on the surface, creating a barrier to stop the iron below from oxidizing/rusting.
    Not following. How can something rust if it's coated? Wouldn't the coating cut off the oxygen supply? I thought that's why we prime and paint steel structures, engine blocks, bike frames, etc.

  25. #2125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    Not following. How can something rust if it's coated? Wouldn't the coating cut off the oxygen supply? I thought that's why we prime and paint steel structures, engine blocks, bike frames, etc.
    As long as the coating is intact, "normal corrosion" would be hindered. But if the coating is damaged, the corrosion rate would be higher than for a non-coated surface. As the surface area for the uncoated piece would be greater, giving a reduced corrosion rate. See equation below.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    IIRC from the school days, the coated stainless steel could also be more susceptible to other more "unknown" forms of corrosion, which means when coating for corrosion protection of stainless steels, the coating systems need to be chosen carefully. (haven't been working with this since I turned in my master thesis 7 years ago..)

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