The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

**Cdubmpdx** · 02-05-2019, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gnar_Shralp406

Am I the only one?

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Are you referring to the sticker? What skis are those mounted on? Top sheet looks sick.

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**andrewpringle** · 02-05-2019, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Cdubmpdx

What skis are those mounted on? Top sheet looks sick.

2016 Wren 112

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**Gnar_Shralp406** · 02-05-2019, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cdubmpdx

Are you referring to the sticker? What skis are those mounted on? Top sheet looks sick.

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Ya, when I first heard of the Salomon Shift, I instantly thought of "get schwifty" from Rick & Morty. These are Wrenegade 112s.

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**banzai** · 02-06-2019, 06:25 AM

Red shift?

**Fish Rider** · 02-06-2019, 07:08 AM

BAM looks Ready to be swooped up by Look. Or get a solid C&D letter from Salomon.

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**skifishbum** · 02-06-2019, 07:16 AM

bam slam
hooded sweater vest is next level shizz

**reckless toboggan** · 02-06-2019, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Fish Rider

BAM looks Ready to be swooped up by Look.

^this.

**retirwntm** · 02-06-2019, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by skifishbum

bam slam
hooded sweater vest is next level shizz

What’s up with hooded vests for dudes? You get a man purse with those?

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**reckless toboggan** · 02-06-2019, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by mtnwriter

What’s up with hooded vests for dudes? You get a man purse with those?

They're called European Shoulder Satchels now.

**LightRanger** · 02-06-2019, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

They're called European Shoulder Satchels now.

And have been since at least 2009. Get with the program, mtnwriter.

**reckless toboggan** · 02-06-2019, 05:13 PM

**Cdubmpdx** · 02-06-2019, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gnar_Shralp406

Ya, when I first heard of the Salomon Shift, I instantly thought of "get schwifty" from Rick & Morty. These are Wrenegade 112s.

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For some reason I don't remember these. I have mine mounted on last year's w108. I'm surprised how many people are touring the Wrens. I thought I'd be the only guy lugging heavy skis up.

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**Cdubmpdx** · 02-06-2019, 10:52 PM

Anybody see this in gear swap. Skibrd was going to sell a pair but had a his roommate who is a ski tech look at them and is now sending em back to Atomic. For those of you walking out of them, might want to read.

Originally Posted by skibrd

Those are the original brakes so they are going back to Atomic with the bindings.

To finish up my response to the previous statement because I wasn’t super clear:

I have had issues staying in the Shifts. Always a heel release when I felt they should of kept me in them. On the toe and heel the din was at 11 (woah someone on TGR doesn’t ski at 18?!?) where I usually ski Pivot 14/18s and only come out when it’s warranted. The forward pressure was set correctly according to the directions and adjusted for more pressure after the first few times I came out.

I had presumed I was just out skiing them and they were more of a touring binding then a Freeride binding, which is fine, but that’s not what I wanted from them, so I decided to sell them.

What my roommate saw is the forward pressure spring area looks possibly different they what he is used to seeing on Atomic/Salomon Shifts, so I decided to send them back before going any further.

I’m sorry to the TGR community for not catching the possible issue before putting them up for sale.

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**skibrd** · 02-07-2019, 12:17 AM

I haven’t kept up with this thread so I’m behind on what issues or non-issues people have had, so if I’m repeating what you have already heard, sorry.

Quick background: me 6-4 230lbs with gear, ski pretty hard, 100+ days a season, have a career that lets me do it, sort of nice.

Bindings: Were my roommates (forgot this part when I went sell them, kill me if you want, I wasn’t trying to be malicious, just forgot), he skied them 2 days only touring, no resort based skiing, and is 5-4 130lbs soaking wet, aka a small dude. I skied them 14 days, 2 were only touring, 6 were side country, rest were inbounds. Of those 14 days, 12 were in Japan, 2 were in Jackson Hole, one of which was touring and one inbounds. I abuse my Pivot 18s because they are steel, my Shifts were babied because I don’t trust plastic bindings.

Roommate had no issues, just didn’t like them better then CAST or Dynafits, traded them to me.

My issues:
1) AFD height would not stay put unless it was way too high. If set correctly, it would drop down over the ski day and create slop in the toe piece. I adjusted it to where it was ‘correct’ once more, issue repeated it self, so I turned the AFR height way too high, to the point where the AFD wouldn’t slide with my boot in it, no matter how hard I pushed, it never dropped again. This didn’t bother me, I didn’t see it as an issue, figured it was a set up issue with my XT Free Pros with the DIN soles, not a warranty issue.

2) Stupid brake retainer system kept popping up on tours so my brakes would drag. I’m super out of shape and I was so tired on skin tracks that I didn’t really notice. Fixed it when I did notice, but not always. Figured it was me not engaging it correctly, not clearing enough snow out of the heel piece or something.

3) I walked out of these more times then I can remember. Soft snow, hard snow, didn’t matter, often when changing from soft to hard to soft quickly, or landing a drop (5-10ft max, career and all, plus age) not perfectly balanced. Same thing would happen, Id walk out and land on my face. DIN was at 11, which is standard for me for Pivot 14s and 18s. Forward pressure was set by the shop (aka roommate who is not a drunk or stoner, but a UVM engineer taking a year off before starting an engineering job) initially as per the directions. After the first few shift outs, I turned up the pressure, kept happening but less frequently, so I turned it up some more, kept happening. I averaged shifting out 1-2 times a day, worst was 6 or 7, that day sucked. I attributed my walking out to the Shifts not having the same elasticity as Pivots, and me pushing them too far. I saw it as the Shift being more of a touring binding then a freeride binding, not a binding manufacturing issue.

Issue roommate saw was something with the forward pressure spring area I think. He worked today and we didn’t get a chance to talk about other then a quick text. He said it didn’t look the same as others he has seen. Kids smart, not your usual dumb duck tech. I’ll report back when I know more.

Needless to say I’m going back to CAST and Kingpin 13s. I haven’t had issues with either of those, knock on wood.

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**CascadeLuke** · 02-07-2019, 05:47 AM

I don’t discredit any problems people are having but I’m really enjoying mine. None of these issues. Have only shifts and pivots in my quiver. Happens that I’ve skied mostly shift this year as they’re on my all-around type skis and I’m actively trying to tour more and gain experience. I’m 6’ and over 200 with gear. Ski fast and hard. 3 pairs mounted by myself via jigarex.
So far no walkouts, no gnarly crashes, no AFD drop, one warranted double eject.

**train07** · 02-07-2019, 06:41 AM

Good to see a positive report like CascadeLuke

Originally Posted by lazyasian

I've had this issue as well. Even with the AFD a bit past flush, I can see the boot toe moving 2mm or so up and down when I step in on the floor and press down on the toes and then lift the toes up. Seems like quite a bit of slop.

Is this expected? If so, it's no surprise that soft toes are getting chewed through!

someone mentioned putting your arm inside the boot and leverage it backwards while setting the AFD....seems to make a lot of sense.

skibird you're a pretty big dude...crank the shifts to 13 (?)...it reads like you kept increasing forward pressure but didn't set the din above 11?
It's been noted that the shift dins aren't going to react like Pivots.

For my part I'm living mostly vicariously through you guys, only a couple tours on mine and one inbounds day...I refuse to believe most of the problems aren't user error....until they happen to me :-)

**skibrd** · 02-07-2019, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by train07

skibird you're a pretty big dude...crank the shifts to 13 (?)...it reads like you kept increasing forward pressure but didn't set the din above 11?
It's been noted that the shift dins aren't going to react like Pivots.

Doesn’t that ruin the whole point of having the Shifts be Din/Iso 5829275829284 certified? I don’t have issues when I set Marker bindings to 11, they seem to react pretty similarly to Pivots.

I get the theory behind just turning them to 13, I just can’t get behind it. Even at 11 I’m slightly nervous because it is 2.5 higher then what the chart says (I know the charts a suggested place to start and blah blah blah, but still).

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**roverdoc** · 02-07-2019, 08:10 AM

I love these bindings. 5’9 155 and cranked to 11 after hearing of a a few pre releases. I usually ski at 10. No release issues and have been using these in and out of bounds. If you are getting toe wear check your afd again. Pretty stoked.

**rod9301** · 02-07-2019, 09:47 AM

I still don't understand why people bought a tech binding in is first year. Paid for a beta test.

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**doebedoe** · 02-07-2019, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by skibrd

Doesn’t that ruin the whole point of having the Shifts be Din/Iso 5829275829284 certified? I don’t have issues when I set Marker bindings to 11, they seem to react pretty similarly to Pivots.

I get the theory behind just turning them to 13, I just can’t get behind it. Even at 11 I’m slightly nervous because it is 2.5 higher then what the chart says (I know the charts a suggested place to start and blah blah blah, but still).

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The whole point of the DIN cert is that it releases at the same force. If your Shifts are testing out according to the shop, then they fall within DIN release value spec.

The DIN cert though can't replicate the wide variety of forces and directions associated with skiing. One reason people like the Pivot so much is that it has the longest elastic travel in the heel of all alpine bindings (1mm longer than the SPX heel). That allows one to run a lower DIN because there is more elasticity before release at a particular force. The STH and Shift heel has about 1/3rd of the elastic travel as the Pivot.

**TahoeJ** · 02-07-2019, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by train07

I refuse to believe most of the problems aren't user error....until they happen to me :-)

Heh. Don't we all?

Just to chime in on the positive - I have two pairs of Shifts... 10+ days on one pair and several on the other, mostly resort skiing with a few tours mixed in. They've been skiing great, haven't had to touch the AFD on either of them. Jury is still out on the brake release while skinning issue.

I do think when reporting various issues people should include what kind of boots they're using, as we could start to see some potential correlation there. And on that note, I'm using Cochise 120's.

**margotron** · 02-07-2019, 10:19 AM

Walk out generally once per day at Din 11. I'm 6'4 200#. Another P18/Shift owner. Have since moved to DIN 13 because annoyed. Haven't skied yet at that din.

Boot: Lupo 130C w/ GripWalk Soles

Some questions:

1. Is the pre-release happening at the toe or heel primarily?

2. What is causing it? Lack of forward pressure? Lack of downward pressure at the heel? AFD-related issues?

To all of you with pre-releases: what sole have you been skiing? Has it happened to you in alpine boots or only touring?

**Name Redacted** · 02-07-2019, 10:49 AM

Been putting a lot of days on my Shifts with some Scarpa Freedom RSs set at 10 DIN. Haven't pre released yet, and released a few times this last week when they needed to. Brakes didn't stop the ski yesterday, but it was 45 degree slope w/ 6" on it so to be expected.

**reckless toboggan** · 02-07-2019, 10:52 AM

Just as another data point re: look vs. salomon

I raced for years on salomons. Always had to crank the din 3 or 4 above what my din should have been. Even then, I had several no-release releases, where you compress the ski (usually popping into an air, or prejumping a roller) and the forward pressure spring can't keep up with how fast the ski is rebounding, creates a space in the length between bindings, and your ski literally just falls off your boot. It can also do this coming out of a turn when you really pop the end of the turn and the ski really gives that energy back you you.

My coach told me to start skiing look bindings and gave me his Rossi super g skis with look turntables for a race. The difference was astonishing. And I could run the din 1 or 2 above what my stated din was and they'd only come off when I wanted them to. Got 2nd that day.

So for those who are getting on the shift (I have a pair), definitely have them release tested and make sure that there are no warranty defects, but also recognize that if your coming from look, sallys just ski differently. They release differently. And if your someone who can really load up a ski (I was a scrawny 145# kid and my coach said I could load them up just like he could at 210#) then running the din 3 to 4 higher is pretty much the norm for sallys. Yes. Even for 916s.

My din is 9.5. I run looks between 9.5 and 11 (beginning vs. end of season). I run sally 916 between 11 and 13. Used to run sallys even higher (14 or 15) when I was younger, lighter, and more aggressive.

That said, the shifts do have several growing pains, in several different areas. It does seem as though we're doing the beta testing here at TGR.

I don't ski my shifts as aggressively as my 916s and turntables, particularly on hard, inbounds snow, or in terms of stomping airs. Yes, I've read the marketing. Finesse. I suggest you do the same.

Say safe out there.

**klauss** · 02-07-2019, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

So for those who are getting on the shift (I have a pair), definitely have them release tested and make sure that there are no warranty defects, but also recognize that if your coming from look, sallys just ski differently. They release differently. And if your someone who can really load up a ski (I was a scrawny 145# kid and my coach said I could load them up just like he could at 210#) then running the din 3 to 4 higher is pretty much the norm for sallys. Yes. Even for 916s.

I am going to bet you didn't have your sally bindings adjusted correctly as a wee lad. The tow wings and toe height are adjustable on salomons 916/STHs and not on pivots. I used to have my P18 pivots forward pressure set too light and would come out of them too often. Now the forward pressure is set tighter than spec and they release like my salomons 916/STHs do at the same din of 13. There is no 3-4 din delta...science

If people are pre-releasing on shifts at 11 din, something is not right. It's not because release characteristics of salomons in general