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  1. #201
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    Oct 2003
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    Brohemia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sashka View Post
    XDDD Gold one

    Cody should I go with shift next year? Or buy tecton/king pin this season and buy more polished version of shift for winter 2019/2020?
    Well that's for you to decide...I don't forsee changes down the line considering we tried just about every tweak and idea possible on the binding but ya never know I guess.

  2. #202
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    Sep 2009
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    PNW -> MSO
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    7,889
    Mtn Lab (as Cody does) or Vulcan could pair full time with this clamp no prob

  3. #203
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    Oct 2003
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    Brohemia
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobsdesk View Post
    Can I pay you to send this quote on a Christmas card to my touring partners who won't f**king listen to me?
    I'd be happy too...them alongside most of the tourers in Tahoe. One of the biggest revelations in skiing was discovering the efficiency of a mellow skin track.

  4. #204
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    Oct 2003
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    Brohemia
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    Oh and I don't think I ever answered the icing issue.

    Well since this was one of the biggest concerns of ours, it's something we worked on hard and even switched up the binding to hopefully not ice up often. Obviously 100% of icing avoidance is unpossible, but out of the Guardians, MTN, and Shifts, the Shifts performed the best...by a lot. Which honestly continues to baffle me because of the multiple moving parts just seem to ask for ice build up. But there are two main factors that have helped from what I've seen 1. A rubber gasket under your toe when in touring mode that moves the slightest bit helps eliminate build up under your toe piece. 2. Not many metal on metal contact points. I always tended to find that the Guardians would build up snow and ice on the metal. Since the Shift is mainly Carbon Fiber Polymer, there isn't many conductive metal contact points. It's seemed to have helped.

  5. #205
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Nor Cal
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    15,620
    ^^ Makes sense. I definitely noticed the same with the Guardian / icing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada29er View Post
    Interesting how in Europe, the average ski tourer (and hard cores) are in no fall zones on their Dynafit Speeds and sub 1000 gram boots, and here in the states we need beef boots and 16 Din metal bindings to ski mostly mellow No American terrain .
    Well, to be fair, those guys are doing a different type of skiing and aren't going to be hucking off of things (typically) in a no fall zone or flashing a line. So when you're doing a bunch of jump turns in super steep exposed terrain, that light gear seems more essential.

  6. #206
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Btown
    Posts
    271
    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    I see so many people at the resort skiing on wimpy boots, pins and hudge Skis. I’m not all that, but it’s a fad that is resulting in many more injuries. I’ve made it a habit to ask the tib/fibs and tibial plateaus that come in what gear they were on. It’s nearly 100%


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Not everyone can afford a quiver of boots and skis and maybe said person ski's the resort twice a year with an out of town buddy while touring all the rest- I doubt it's their equipment that led to the injury, need to have a brain cell or two to know slow down on your tech setup inbounds.


    Can't we all just get along? Seriously the amount grilling that happens in lift lines these days is worse than when I used to race as a kid and the rich kids had all the sweet gear... Honestly this is why I stick to the BC most days, people just suck.

    Sweet binding, I would certainly recommend to a friend who is getting into touring and when my dentist gig picks up I will invest myself. Thanks for all the great information over the past 9 pages!

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    here and there
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    18,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    Oh and I don't think I ever answered the icing issue.

    Well since this was one of the biggest concerns of ours, it's something we worked on hard and even switched up the binding to hopefully not ice up often. Obviously 100% of icing avoidance is unpossible, but out of the Guardians, MTN, and Shifts, the Shifts performed the best...by a lot. Which honestly continues to baffle me because of the multiple moving parts just seem to ask for ice build up. But there are two main factors that have helped from what I've seen 1. A rubber gasket under your toe when in touring mode that moves the slightest bit helps eliminate build up under your toe piece. 2. Not many metal on metal contact points. I always tended to find that the Guardians would build up snow and ice on the metal. Since the Shift is mainly Carbon Fiber Polymer, there isn't many conductive metal contact points. It's seemed to have helped.
    That kinda makes sense. I know several years back the Japanese came out with an aerospace CF/epoxy that was a hudge leap forward in performance and weight. A well know bike co was able to get use of it for bike frames, later it got used in a few skis. Kind of wondered if it would get used in boots or bindings eventually.

    I also get what you are saying about lower angle skinning. Sometimes though you have to hit a steep section and it would nice to have the option of a taller lift. My Dfit Mercury boots get the call for alot of my BC ski mostly due to the excellent ROM. We even laid out and built a lower angle skin track at my buddies mtn to have another option other than the main logging road which in places has 40% climbs.
    watch out for snakes

  8. #208
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    Jan 2009
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    Squaw valley
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    4,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada29er View Post
    This binding looks great, now if only the mythical one boot to rule all existed to go with this binding! For inbounds days, switching boots is still the biggest PIA.

    Interesting how in Europe, the average ski tourer (and hard cores) are in no fall zones on their Dynafit Speeds and sub 1000 gram boots, and here in the states we need beef boots and 16 Din metal bindings to ski mostly mellow No American terrain .
    Yeah, but all, except the top half percent, are really struggling on the down. They sure make it look ugly.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using TGR Forums mobile app

  9. #209
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Golden, Colorado
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    5,868

    The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    I'd be happy too...them alongside most of the tourers in Tahoe. One of the biggest revelations in skiing was discovering the efficiency of a mellow skin track.
    While I agree with its effeciency, sometimes other factors come into play, so I’m a bit bummed by the 10 degrees.

    1) Is it really more effecient to break trail through 2’ of fresh than to take an established steeper track? Probably not.

    2) Terrain. Usually thick trees, as has been mentioned earlier.

    3) Sometimes speed is more important than effeciency. Sure when you get paid to ski all day (Hoji, Greg, etc), effeciency trumps all. But when you try to knock out a lap or two before work, speed is more important. (This is why the Wasatch has insane tracks, imo)

    4) Anatomy. Short achilles = higher risers are more comfortable for me than they are on the same track for my partners.

    5) Breaking trail means the effective skintrack angle is much steeper. Your tips float and tails sink. Much easier to break trail on higher risers imo.

    There’s a reason why CAST’s second edition had high risers (they made your same argument for 1st gen). They didn’t want to needlessly eliminate a good chunk of potential buyers. I hope Shift 2nd gen does the same.

    I get it, if there were technical reasons, but there comes a point where it’s better to be practical than ideal just for the sake of being ideal.
    Last edited by Lindahl; 12-11-2017 at 08:37 AM.

  10. #210
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    Oct 2003
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    9,300ft
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    21,938
    I agree with Lindhal
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #211
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
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    1,465
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    While I agree with it’s effeciency, sometimes other factors come into play, so I’m a bit bummed by the 10 degrees.

    1) Is it really more effecient to break trail through 2’ of fresh than to take an established steeper track? Probably not.

    2) Terrain. Usually thick trees, as has been mentioned earlier.

    3) Sometimes speed is more important than effeciency. Sure when you get paid to ski all day, effeciency trumps all. But when you try to knock out a lap or two before work, speed is more important.

    4) Anatomy. Short achilles = higher risers are more comfortable for me than they are on the same track for my partners.

    5) Breaking trail means the effects skintrack angle is much steeper. Your tips float and tails sink. Much easier to break trail on higher risers imo.
    Me too, the area I ski in makes it very difficult to just find a mellow route, I'm on my high riser a lot.
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  12. #212
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    5,846
    IME the ROM in your touring boots also can affect your riser needs, like the stiffer more "freeride" touring boots generally have less ROM and thus make you even more reliant on the high riser, whereas with a high ROM boot you can often compensate simply in your stride. Doesn't help the SHIFT though cuz I don't think there will be a lot of people using these with lightweight boots... the lack of a high riser in this sort of binding is a curious omission to me.

    fwiw I generally find skintrack steepness not too bad (and I am a low-riser-only guy) in the Wasatch with the exception of very specific places like the skinner up Grannys, etc

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    1,127
    ^^^^^ as well as the rom of your ankles/lower leg, as lindhal mentions. I have very very little, so will be up on taller risers than normal people.

  14. #214
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    4,711
    I agree the lack of tall riser is a total miss on an otherwise exciting product. Our resort has dedicated up routes which a high riser is a must in 2 sections.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  15. #215
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    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
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    14,410
    Quote Originally Posted by rludes025 View Post
    I agree the lack of tall riser is a total miss on an otherwise exciting product. Our resort has dedicated up routes which a high riser is a must in 2 sections.
    i cant imagine it would be hard to add another lifter on there....

  16. #216
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
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    8,296
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    i cant imagine it would be hard to add another lifter on there....
    Sure, but it's annoying to spend $650 for a binding and need to immediately modify it.

    What Lindahl said. I never go into my high riser unless I have to. But sometimes I have to...

  17. #217
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    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
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    14,410
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Sure, but it's annoying to spend $650 for a binding and need to immediately modify it.

    What Lindahl said. I never go into my high riser unless I have to. But sometimes I have to...
    I meant for salomon to add one prior to release...i wouldnt want to DIY a $650 binding either...

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    30,879
    arent they gona have beta versions out there this season that real users will give feedback on which would leave lots of time to make changes?

    i think you can go steeper/slower or shallower/faster I don't think one is faster than the other, and sometimes you gotta follow a shitty track so maybe a higher riser is in order
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  19. #219
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    3,429
    Quote Originally Posted by BC_ski_BC View Post
    Not everyone can afford a quiver of boots and skis and maybe said person ski's the resort twice a year...Can't we all just get along? Seriously the amount grilling that happens in lift lines these days...
    Agreed.

    We don't have a ton of grilling in the lift lines where I ski, but all of my skis see double duty inbound and out of bounds.

    Also, what better place to really get dialed on your touring gear than at the resort where you can ski lap after lap?

    Seth

  20. #220
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,879
    I have multiples of the same ski setup alpine & BC

    I thot everyone did?

    we don't have lift lines

    It was decided here last month that riding the lifts to ski a lot of laps at the hill didnt actualy make you a better skier
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  21. #221
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Squamish, BC
    Posts
    897
    Quote Originally Posted by BC_ski_BC View Post
    Can't we all just get along? Seriously the amount grilling that happens in lift lines these days is worse than when I used to race as a kid and the rich kids had all the sweet gear... Honestly this is why I stick to the BC most days, people just suck.
    Hah! I love the lift-line shit talking! And the chairlift hollering.
    probably why I'm realistically mostly an inbounds/slackcountry guy (though I did get me a snowpony this season).
    Hells.. I would buy any equipment that make me snarkier! Cody - will this binding feed me more one-liners?

    This binding is pretty much targeted at me. And I think I'm the typically skiier type around W/B (but... like.. the best on the mountain). I assume many other places too.
    I want them, and I want them to not break.
    Last edited by Judo Chop!; 12-11-2017 at 12:56 PM.

  22. #222
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    1,020
    ^ I am probably the same.

    I do have a dedicated touring set up. It won't likely change.

    I can see replacing the dukes on my pow/slack country setup. They see limited up, but just nice to have when the next opening leads to just one more turn and before you know it - you have passed the ski out.

    I don't really mind the weight of the dukes - they are mounted on Volkl confessions anyway - it is the way they pivot plus where the weight sits I have issues with. But I do like to ride all day in my alpine boots if the hill is getting some dumpage.

  23. #223
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    1,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    I'd be happy too...them alongside most of the tourers in Tahoe. One of the biggest revelations in skiing was discovering the efficiency of a mellow skin track.
    Please tell Zellers this as well, especially up an icy slope...someone needs to take his lifters away.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  24. #224
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Truckee & Nor Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    No offense, but isn't the Kingpin your first tech binding? ie you haven't toured regularly on anything lighter? First time I toured on Speed Radicals I was pretty blown away... and that was coming from Radical FTs (which are lighter than Kingpins) and the Speed Radical is far from the lightest binding out there.
    On a follow-up note, just listened to the Blister podcast and Rubens basically said the exact same thing I did (that having the weight on your boot matters a lot more than a little extra on your ski)... but having said that, if you've been touring on equipment for years that's notably lighter, I can see why adding a few hundred more grams might be a deal breaker for you. Fortunately not the case for me, as I will happily exchange a safe toe release and traditional elastic feel for a little more weight. The Guardian was so heavy and inefficient that it wasn't worth it (other than very short tours), as skiing with tired legs is arguably just as dangerous.

    I've taken some small (8-10 foot) drops on my kingpins and every time I've done it I'm thinking about my tech toe and have passed up some other drops for that same reason. I've come to trust them not to release, but the landings are noticeably more jarring so that's another benefit.

    As for the heel riser height... hmm... time will tell. If it proves to be a big problem for a lot of people, I'm sure at some point Salomon will add a modification or alternate riser option. Seems like it could be a relatively easy after-market adjustment.

  25. #225
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Squamish, BC
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    897
    Oh yeah... I’m also keen to see a mount pattern. Possible Cody?

    Kingpins have been rattling my bones and I’d love to ditch them but keep the sticks.

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