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  1. #2251
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    I did - it was fine, but I will check again. Thanks for suggesting.
    FWIW only time i had these issues my afd had dropped some.

  2. #2252
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Squalpine
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Day 1 on my Shifts. Shop mounted. Heavy pow and groomers. Many prereleases in the soft stuff. Dialed in the forward pressure so that it is just inboard of the arrowed line. More prereleases - turned up DIN from 9 to 11. One final prerelease at 11 DIN.

    From GregL and westoxified's posts, sounds like I should dial back the FP a touch, and turn up my DIN to 13.

    I've never pre-released in my life like I did my first day on Shifts. User error? Sounds like others have had similar prerelease issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by lucknau View Post
    The heel elasticity is pretty minimal, so any amount of snow on the boot heel or in the brake mechanism will affect the prerelease problem. I suspect that its possible some boots are going to prerelease easier due to where their heel platforms fall within the ISO spec, but havenít verified that yet.

    Have you read LeeLauís big article on dialing in the Shift to avoid its quirks? Itíll save you a shit ton of reading, if you havenít committed the last several hundred pages if this thread to memory.

    Search for the "SHIFT ISSUES" header in this article:
    https://www.newschoolers.com/news/re...n-Atomic-Shift
    Meters, just to second what lucknau is saying, I've prereleased once in 20+ days and there was a VERY thin layer of snow under my heel when it happened. I definitely haven't pushed them super hard, but I'm a big dude. My impression is that the heel is just really sensitive to the height of the back of the boot, so if you've got snow in there or a tall boot heel then you come out.

    Or maybe it's fucked and should get warrantied. Hope not.

  3. #2253
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    59
    I couldn't solve my prerelease issues with Shifts, even with the aid of Lee Lau's very good troubleshooting guide and after much tinkering. Forward pressure was fine, AFD was fine; I even got them tested at the shop using their fancy release value calibration machine (also fine). Guess it must have been user error not clearing all the ice/snow before clicking in. Realistically I'm not fastidious enough to clear every last snow crystal from the binding before stepping into them, so I sold them.

  4. #2254
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    326
    Has anyone skied Shifts in last gen Atomic Hawx boots? They have a super thick sole under the toe. With the AFD adjusted as low as it will go, there is still borderline too much pressure on the toe - my tester strip baaaarely slides. I'm taking them out for a rip on Friday...I'm not too worried about it, but will be cautious at first.

  5. #2255
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,640
    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    Has anyone skied Shifts in last gen Atomic Hawx boots? They have a super thick sole under the toe. With the AFD adjusted as low as it will go, there is still borderline too much pressure on the toe - my tester strip baaaarely slides. I'm taking them out for a rip on Friday...I'm not too worried about it, but will be cautious at first.
    Skied the last third of the season last year in that combo. Didnít have any issues, but I donít think I ended up in a release scenario either.

  6. #2256
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    Has anyone skied Shifts in last gen Atomic Hawx boots? They have a super thick sole under the toe. With the AFD adjusted as low as it will go, there is still borderline too much pressure on the toe - my tester strip baaaarely slides. I'm taking them out for a rip on Friday...I'm not too worried about it, but will be cautious at first.
    I would be shocked if Atomic made a boot that didnt work with their own binding not to mention that would mean they werent Alpine ISO compatible.

  7. #2257
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,366
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtlange View Post
    I would be shocked if Atomic made a boot that didnt work with their own binding not to mention that would mean they werent Alpine ISO compatible.
    The first generation Atomic Hawx XTD had WTR soles, which I assume met ISO 9523 Alpine Touring (not Alpine) specs, but the rubber under the toe had to be ground to work in some bindings that were supposed to be compatible (i.e. Marker Griffon ID) - there is a thread that mentions it somewhere here. This sort of anomaly isn't that uncommon, as manufacturers often use one sole mold to fit 2 or 3 BSL's and the rubber interfaces with the AFD differently for each. (Back in the day many tech touring boot soles had to be ground so as not to interfere with Dynafit toe wings, for example).

  8. #2258
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    The first generation Atomic Hawx XTD had WTR soles, which I assume met ISO 9523 Alpine Touring (not Alpine) specs, but the rubber under the toe had to be ground to work in some bindings that were supposed to be compatible (i.e. Marker Griffon ID) - there is a thread that mentions it somewhere here. This sort of anomaly isn't that uncommon, as manufacturers often use one sole mold to fit 2 or 3 BSL's and the rubber interfaces with the AFD differently for each. (Back in the day many tech touring boot soles had to be ground so as not to interfere with Dynafit toe wings, for example).
    Good point on the XTD. I assumed he was speaking about the Alpine Hawx line which I probably shouldnt have.

  9. #2259
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,366
    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    With the AFD adjusted as low as it will go, there is still borderline too much pressure on the toe - my tester strip baaaarely slides. I'm taking them out for a rip on Friday...I'm not too worried about it, but will be cautious at first.
    I can't recommend this to paying customers, but personally I adjust so there's zero space between AFD and sole (no tester strip as long as there is a moving AFD in good condtion) and call it good. That's what the bearings are for, with .5mm clearance you feel a little vertical movement on cold days. YMMV.

  10. #2260
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    325
    My XTD 130s needed a little bit of rubber trimmed off the sole, just behind the black plate that interfaces with the AFD to play nice with Shifts. Took 2 seconds with a razor blade.

  11. #2261
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    326
    Thanks for the feedback gents. They are the Hawx XTDs, and ya, they're supposed to be WTR compatible but as gregL mentioned they don't fit in all bindings. The IDs are one example and some older WTR bindings don't work either.

    Sounds like I'll be fine though - the AFD is juuust touching the sole at the toe. I'll report back if I die after my test drive tomorrow.

  12. #2262
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    My XTD 130s needed a little bit of rubber trimmed off the sole, just behind the black plate that interfaces with the AFD to play nice with Shifts. Took 2 seconds with a razor blade.
    Nice one, I'll look into this if I have any issues.

  13. #2263
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    mammoth
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    I can't recommend this to paying customers, but personally I adjust so there's zero space between AFD and sole (no tester strip as long as there is a moving AFD in good condtion) and call it good. That's what the bearings are for, with .5mm clearance you feel a little vertical movement on cold days. YMMV.
    I've been thinking of doing the same thing. Have you tested it like this on a bench? I assume you'd get passing results. The difference is relatively minor and, like you said, that's what the bearings are for.
    aerospace eng with a gravity fetish
    ig


  14. #2264
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    Has anyone skied Shifts in last gen Atomic Hawx boots? They have a super thick sole under the toe. With the AFD adjusted as low as it will go, there is still borderline too much pressure on the toe - my tester strip baaaarely slides. I'm taking them out for a rip on Friday...I'm not too worried about it, but will be cautious at first.
    Billyhoyle, make sure you aren't doing this:

    Quote Originally Posted by burrito View Post
    This happened to me during my initial test mount. When the AFD is set too low for your boot (which it normally will be before you start adjusting), you need to consciously raise the toe up to the correct position...or you'll end up like I did at first:
    now a complete tool

  15. #2265
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by westoxified View Post
    Billyhoyle, make sure you aren't doing this:
    Thanks for that. I'm pretty sure I pulled the toe up when adjusting, but I'll double check tonight. I read Lou's post about troubleshooting the Shifts (awesome article) so I was aware of this potential issue.

  16. #2266
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    1
    Does anyone else find they have to max out their AFD height to accomodate alpine soles? I'm skiing Lange RXs in the resort with the shifts. The ski shop that set up the binding initially had the AFD one click below it's max height but after skiing a few laps I noticed a little vertical play between my boot's toe welt and to binding toe piece.

  17. #2267
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    mammoth
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by kyleramer View Post
    Does anyone else find they have to max out their AFD height to accomodate alpine soles? I'm skiing Lange RXs in the resort with the shifts. The ski shop that set up the binding initially had the AFD one click below it's max height but after skiing a few laps I noticed a little vertical play between my boot's toe welt and to binding toe piece.
    That seems to be the case with the shifts and the only way to make them work with alpine, which is fine. Most people on shifts are using them with boots that only have Gripwalk, WTR, or Touring soles. If you have the option to move your sole blocks to any of those soles, I'd recommend you do that as they walk and hike much better.

    Curious why you're skiing the Shifts with RXs? Do you have another set of boots for when you're touring and adjust the bindings every time you move between them?
    aerospace eng with a gravity fetish
    ig


  18. #2268
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    50
    Billyhoyle, also see this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    Can't recall if this has been mentioned here but there's an issue with the Hawx boot when trying to set the toe height on the Shift due to the edge of the vibram rubber sole fouling the black AFD housing on the binding thus preventing the smooth AFD panel on the boot sitting directly on the white sliding AFD of the binding.

    Here's the area that catches
    Attachment 261405

    And here's the 10 second solution with a razor blade which sorts the problem

    Attachment 261406
    I've been using Hawx xtd (wtr) and Shifts, no problem.

    Edit: HAB already mentioned this

  19. #2269
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
    Posts
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by macon View Post
    That seems to be the case with the shifts and the only way to make them work with alpine, which is fine. Most people on shifts are using them with boots that only have Gripwalk, WTR, or Touring soles. If you have the option to move your sole blocks to any of those soles, I'd recommend you do that as they walk and hike much better.

    Curious why you're skiing the Shifts with RXs? Do you have another set of boots for when you're touring and adjust the bindings every time you move between them?
    Can't answer for the question-asker, but I will note that it makes sense that the AFD would need to max out for a alpine-DIN sole, as that's the skinniest spec it needs to meet.

    I believe mine are maxed out, or maybe one click down, for my Freetours with the alpine soles installed. And yes, the other soles hike better, but they don't meet the spec for race bindings, and—more importantly—they don't boot-ski for crap.

  20. #2270
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    mammoth
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    Can't answer for the question-asker, but I will note that it makes sense that the AFD would need to max out for a alpine-DIN sole, as that's the skinniest spec it needs to meet.

    I believe mine are maxed out, or maybe one click down, for my Freetours with the alpine soles installed. And yes, the other soles hike better, but they don't meet the spec for race bindings, and—more importantly—they don't boot-ski for crap.
    Yes the AFD definitely goes all the way to the top for alpine soles. I can maybe see the case for freetours... but RXs? You can't even use the shifts other mode with RXs.

    I concede your point on boot skiing. I always seem to forget about skiing's most hardcore sub discipline.
    aerospace eng with a gravity fetish
    ig


  21. #2271
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,457
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    I can't recommend this to paying customers, but personally I adjust so there's zero space between AFD and sole (no tester strip as long as there is a moving AFD in good condtion) and call it good. That's what the bearings are for, with .5mm clearance you feel a little vertical movement on cold days. YMMV.
    ^^^ +1 ^^^

    And it's worth noting that we measure the clearance in the shop (at room temperature).

    The spacing expands when the temperature drops. Folks rarely mention this.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 12-13-2019 at 09:53 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  22. #2272
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    FR&CH
    Posts
    172
    For my full tilts alpine boots I do all the way up minus one ę†click†Ľ

  23. #2273
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    29
    My shifts are being a pain in the ass. Set my forward pressure like recommended on here and from what I can tell, in the Solomon manual, raised the AFD to where it was barely touching when lifting up the boot, pressed down on the boot while slowly lowering the AFD till it ďclickedĒ down, then raised it back up to just barely touching or a hair of space between the boot and AFD If Iím really lifting the boot toe up as hard as I can.

    Worked ok for about a days worth of skiing. Then today had 2 pre releases on pretty mellow terrain, luckily I ski pretty centered cause any forward pressure on the skis and Iíd feel a ďclick in the heel piece like it was about to release.
    Also if I really flex into the tips standing still, like Iím about to do a top stand(which Iíve tried, released onto my face) the toe of the boot seems to drop down and shift forward, which would explain that clicking feeling in the heel when Iím close to prereleasing while skiing.

    heres a pic of my boot in the binding, Lupo AXHD with the alpine soles. As you can see the AFD has to sit pretty damn high, maybe thatís part of the issue? Though my previous boots, scarpa feeedom RS had the same issues and the AFD was at pretty standard height for those.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  24. #2274
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    2,726
    I'm saying it again.
    Cody started the 50 project skiing the shift and after a few options he's exclusively on mtn.

    Probably decide that he would like to live longer.

    Sent from my Armor_3 using Tapatalk

  25. #2275
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
    Posts
    1,380
    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    I'm saying it again.
    Cody started the 50 project skiing the shift and after a few options he's exclusively on mtn.

    Probably decide that he would like to live longer.

    Sent from my Armor_3 using Tapatalk
    Cute theory ó

    The Shift is not designed for 5k and 6-7 mile objectives (sure it will do it). When you have access to whatever gear you want on those longer missions why not lighten up the ski and enjoy the day a bit more.

    So far Iíve seen him ski the shift on 1 episode (#2 - Mt Superior) which is a road lap. He likely took a weight penalty to ski a solid alpine binding down.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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