The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[tomjensen]

I haven’t kept up with this thread so I’m behind on what issues or non-issues people have had, so if I’m repeating what you have already heard, sorry.

Quick background: me 6-4 230lbs with gear, ski pretty hard, 100+ days a season, have a career that lets me do it, sort of nice.

Bindings: Were my roommates (forgot this part when I went sell them, kill me if you want, I wasn’t trying to be malicious, just forgot), he skied them 2 days only touring, no resort based skiing, and is 5-4 130lbs soaking wet, aka a small dude. I skied them 14 days, 2 were only touring, 6 were side country, rest were inbounds. Of those 14 days, 12 were in Japan, 2 were in Jackson Hole, one of which was touring and one inbounds. I abuse my Pivot 18s because they are steel, my Shifts were babied because I don’t trust plastic bindings.

Roommate had no issues, just didn’t like them better then CAST or Dynafits, traded them to me.

My issues:
1) AFD height would not stay put unless it was way too high. If set correctly, it would drop down over the ski day and create slop in the toe piece. I adjusted it to where it was ‘correct’ once more, issue repeated it self, so I turned the AFR height way too high, to the point where the AFD wouldn’t slide with my boot in it, no matter how hard I pushed, it never dropped again. This didn’t bother me, I didn’t see it as an issue, figured it was a set up issue with my XT Free Pros with the DIN soles, not a warranty issue.

2) Stupid brake retainer system kept popping up on tours so my brakes would drag. I’m super out of shape and I was so tired on skin tracks that I didn’t really notice. Fixed it when I did notice, but not always. Figured it was me not engaging it correctly, not clearing enough snow out of the heel piece or something.

3) I walked out of these more times then I can remember. Soft snow, hard snow, didn’t matter, often when changing from soft to hard to soft quickly, or landing a drop (5-10ft max, career and all, plus age) not perfectly balanced. Same thing would happen, Id walk out and land on my face. DIN was at 11, which is standard for me for Pivot 14s and 18s. Forward pressure was set by the shop (aka roommate who is not a drunk or stoner, but a UVM engineer taking a year off before starting an engineering job) initially as per the directions. After the first few shift outs, I turned up the pressure, kept happening but less frequently, so I turned it up some more, kept happening. I averaged shifting out 1-2 times a day, worst was 6 or 7, that day sucked. I attributed my walking out to the Shifts not having the same elasticity as Pivots, and me pushing them too far. I saw it as the Shift being more of a touring binding then a freeride binding, not a binding manufacturing issue.

Issue roommate saw was something with the forward pressure spring area I think. He worked today and we didn’t get a chance to talk about other then a quick text. He said it didn’t look the same as others he has seen. Kids smart, not your usual dumb duck tech. I’ll report back when I know more.


Needless to say I’m going back to CAST and Kingpin 13s. I haven’t had issues with either of those, knock on wood.


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If you're able to post some pictures I would appreciate it Skibird

[LightRanger]

Possible to throw some locktite on the AFD screw shaft?

[Eluder]

Possible to throw some locktite on the AFD screw shaft?

Talked about this today. I'm gonna take it apart tomorrow and find out.

I would be interested to know if people with more rockered soles are having the AFD issues or if its a bigger problem with the AFD up high at an angle for DIN and GW soles. One of mine seems to be staying the other keep clicking down....

[margotron]

Talked about this today. I'm gonna take it apart tomorrow and find out.

I would be interested to know if people with more rockered soles are having the AFD issues or if its a bigger problem with the AFD up high at an angle for DIN and GW soles. One of mine seems to be staying the other keep clicking down....

My GW soles on Lupos have mega rocker. For alpine soles, the AFD need to be cranked way up

[jacob_dbu]

I have Salomon rockered soles with a low AFD height and so far *knock on wood* no issues with the AFD. For a little more weight I bet they could have made the adjustable AFD slide forward-backward like some other brands do....maybe it's patented. But the worm drive and that angle seem like non-optimal engineering design choices.

[Eluder]

I have GW Lupo's. The AFD is pretty high still.

I wouldn't call GW boots mega rockered.

[margotron]

I have GW Lupo's. The AFD is pretty high still.

I wouldn't call GW boots mega rockered.

What boot idea more? I speak from ignorance

[train07]

a note about the pics in my experiment above from last night:
In mentioning the wings were still not tight to the boot toe I meant vertically....I did NOT adjust forward pressure for the experiment (there's only so much I'm willing to do for you tweakers ) and it would NOT change the fact that the AFD shouldn't be tweaked that high nor skied on like that....the whole point is to take note of alpine vs tech with the toe wings/afd....a lot of boot variances which has been mentioned before...


Here's a Lange Comp 120 (ignore forward pressure not being set)..the resistance met in turning the screw indicated to stop raising the afd..it's still not touching the boot and that angle just seems wrong...I wouldn't want to ski on that set up....maybe the claim that these are alpine compatible is a bit of a stretch or maybe I'm talking out of my ass....still love the binding.





now back to the Scarpa tech setting......which of these two pics do you think will perform the way it should?



very much looking forward to the pics of the deconstruction of the afd Eluder

[detrusor]

I think I’ll be remounting my Lhasa fats and the wife’s billy goats w pivots this week. Prolly Watch gs for shifts


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[banzai]

XT free pros with alpine soles. Not concerned.

[Eluder]

What boot idea more? I speak from ignorance

Pretty much any true AT boot. First pic is a Gea RS vs Lupo Factory, second pic is a Zero G Pro Tour vs Lupo Factory. Another thing to consider is the AFD on GW extends back and more parallel to the ski than the rocker of the boot creating an indent in the sole for the binding to rest.

This will affect the angle of the AFD, I am hypothesizing that the more angle the AFD has the more likely it is to "shift" during use.... My thought is that the higher angle increases the leverage placed on the stepped block and maybe puts more of a Backwards force (for and aft) on the AFD. With the AFD in a flatter position the force would be more downward into the ski...

Here is a visual I stole of the AFD adjustment interface I am basing this hypothesis off of. If you push down it it will stay, if you push back and down it can step down. The higher the AFD the shorter the steps are there for making it easier to step down.

Attachment 263261

[burrito]

I am hypothesizing that the more angle the AFD has the more likely it is to "shift" during use.... My thought is that the higher angle increases the leverage placed on the stepped block and maybe puts more of a Backwards force (for and aft) on the AFD. With the AFD in a flatter position the force would be more downward into the ski...

This, especially in alpine sole situations when you’re only applying force to the front edge of the AFD. It’s odd to me that they were able to engineer a change in angle when adjusting up from touring to GripWalk but not another when adjusting from GripWalk to Alpine.

I wonder if we might see an update in a couple of seasons that uses swappable, rather than adjustable, AFDs. The AFD piece already detaches from the rest of the toe, and, though it would be a SKU nightmare for someone at Solly, seems like a pretty foolproof solution.

[Eluder]

I wonder if we might see an update in a couple of seasons that uses swappable, rather than adjustable, AFDs. The AFD piece already detaches from the rest of the toe, and, though it would be a SKU nightmare for someone at Solly, seems like a pretty foolproof solution.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an updated AFD, it seems that it has been proven necessary already. A swappable static AFD won't work unfortunately. All bindings either need an automatic or manual toe height adjustment. This is either done through the toe piece or the AFD to accommodate for differences in boots even within a standardized ISO.

I am talking out of my ass here but It seems that most of the in use testing on this binding was done while using the MTN Lab, Amers other top level boot that would make sense to use with this binding (the Hawx XTD) dosn't work without modification. You would think the issue would have been found and passed on to dealers if it had been tested extensively with the Hawx XTD. The MTN Lab has a rubber rockered sole that leaves the AFD in the lower range of adjustment. The rubber sole may also help absorb some of the energy that moves the AFD off its step, though it seems increased AFD hight is more likely what is causing the issue. I am not saying the shifting AFD is only going to happen to DIN and GW boots I am only stating it is more likely to because of how the AFD and adjustment mechanism sit when the AFD is the higher positions.

[margotron]

Grip Walk and Alpine Soles on Lupo 130. Based on what peeps are guessing, the Grip Walk should work better?






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[Cdubmpdx]

Has anyone tried Cody's method. I just adjusted mine per his method. I'll try em tomorrow and see if it sticks.

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[MnO_____]

Has anyone tried Cody's method. I just adjusted mine per his method. I'll try em tomorrow and see if it sticks.

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I have tried some different tactics. The one that I found to work the best is close to how Cody says, but not exactly the same:

1. Understand that you are not dealing with a stepless smooth setting action, but a step-by-step slider that climbs or goes down one step at the time
2. Crank the AFD up to one position above what you need
3. Adjust the AFD down slowly, while putting a bit of pressure on the toe. The AFD will then suddenly click down to the position you need
4. Tighten the screw about 1/4 of a turn. Not enough to lift it up a click, but to tighten it so that the edge really sits safely on the right level.

I would say that Codys method have about the same effect, even if he don´t explain what is actually happening mechanically.

[train07]

Grip Walk and Alpine Soles on Lupo 130. Based on what peeps are guessing, the Grip Walk should work better?






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I stand firmly behind the total lack of scientific proof when pointing and stating "that just doesn't look right"...
so yeah.. guessing
you guys got your afd cranked higher than I was willing to try based on detrusor breaking his screw...
question for detrusor...did you just strip the head of the screw or you know that it snapped inside?

[Cdubmpdx]

I have tried some different tactics. The one that I found to work the best is close to how Cody says, but not exactly the same:

1. Understand that you are not dealing with a stepless smooth setting action, but a step-by-step slider that climbs or goes down one step at the time
2. Crank the AFD up to one position above what you need
3. Adjust the AFD down slowly, while putting a bit of pressure on the toe. The AFD will then suddenly click down to the position you need
4. Tighten the screw about 1/4 of a turn. Not enough to lift it up a click, but to tighten it so that the edge really sits safely on the right level.

I would say that Codys method have about the same effect, even if he don´t explain what is actually happening mechanically.

That makes a lot of sense. I have Lange Freetours, which are WTR. I don't notices the notches as much the further it raises, which makes it difficult to tell when I'm at the next level. Also brings up the point that someone else brought up about the angle changes and such.

If I ever start a ski product company, I'm definitely using TGR to beta test before release to the public.

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[skibrd]

I don’t have mine any more. They are somewhere on the way to being warrantied. I’m a bad TGR mag for the lack of pictures. My bad


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[Judo Chop!]

FYI - I went by the Whistler solly shop yesterday. Word from them is to set the forward pressure so the back edge of the little rectangle lines up with the arrows. This is slightly tighter than flush back edge. And slightly tighter than a shop manual I once saw. Not sure if it makes a difference or not.

I also noticed that the rear DIN screw can be tightened well past the 13 mark. Anyone have some insight on doing this? Would I get effectively more DIN (just without the cert) doing so? Or just cause some problems?

[skibrd]

FYI - I went by the Whistler solly shop yesterday. Word from them is to set the forward pressure so the back edge of the little rectangle lines up with the arrows. This is slightly tighter than flush back edge. And slightly tighter than a shop manual I once saw. Not sure if it makes a difference or not.

I also noticed that the rear DIN screw can be tightened well past the 13 mark. Anyone have some insight on doing this? Would I get effectively more DIN (just without the cert) doing so? Or just cause some problems?

Interesting because that’s about where I settled for my forward pressure.


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[Westcoaster]

I wouldn't be surprised to see an updated AFD, it seems that it has been proven necessary already. A swappable static AFD won't work unfortunately. All bindings either need an automatic or manual toe height adjustment. This is either done through the toe piece or the AFD to accommodate for differences in boots even within a standardized ISO.

I am talking out of my ass here but It seems that most of the in use testing on this binding was done while using the MTN Lab, Amers other top level boot that would make sense to use with this binding (the Hawx XTD) dosn't work without modification. You would think the issue would have been found and passed on to dealers if it had been tested extensively with the Hawx XTD. The MTN Lab has a rubber rockered sole that leaves the AFD in the lower range of adjustment. The rubber sole may also help absorb some of the energy that moves the AFD off its step, though it seems increased AFD hight is more likely what is causing the issue. I am not saying the shifting AFD is only going to happen to DIN and GW boots I am only stating it is more likely to because of how the AFD and adjustment mechanism sit when the AFD is the higher positions.

What's the issue with the xtd?

[Eluder]

What's the issue with the xtd?

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...17#post5539517

[1000-oaks]

I also noticed that the rear DIN screw can be tightened well past the 13 mark. Anyone have some insight on doing this? Would I get effectively more DIN (just without the cert) doing so? Or just cause some problems?

Hard to say without measuring the spring and the dimensions of its container, you could end up with spring bind (the coils bottom out on each other and the spring can't compress any further, leading to things breaking).

[Spyderjon]

Crazy question here: anyone know where the front screw/locating bobbin can be sourced for a pair that's missing one? Contacting salomon seems next to impossible and it's kind of an urgent situation. Asking for a friend...

You want part number L4075110001 which is for a pair of toe studs inc the mounting screws. In typical ski industry fashion Salomon/Atomic have not had any spares available since the Shift was launched so anyone who lost a stud had to rely on the kindness of a retailer to give them one from a stock binding - which wouldn't usually be a problem but the retailers are selling the bindings like hot cakes and they don't want to be left with a stud'less set they can't sell until the spares become available. Thankfully the spares should be available soon as they're due in to their warehouse on the 8th Feb so retailers who have ordered them will get them around the 13th/14th Feb - so hopefully that's close enough to encourage a retailer to give up one of theirs as it can be replaced pretty quickly.

addict, did you source some replacement toe studs as my spares stock arrived a few days (and few days earlier than Salomon had originally confirmed for)?