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03-27-2019, 03:39 PM #2001Registered User
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I’m gonna bump it up 95% user error after seeing Kid Kapows post
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03-27-2019, 03:54 PM #2002
^^ I'm starting to think you could be right.
But, the manual description and diagram is pretty shitty and could / should be improved.
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03-27-2019, 09:25 PM #2003Registered User
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The problem is that people were having problems the heel pre-releasing. Somewhere along the line in this thread people began reporting that increasing FP had solved the issue. Someone even reported that shop techs had been setting the FP slightly forward from recommended per solly/amer.
I wasn't under the impression people didn't know where it was supposed to be set but apparently there is some confusion. For the record, I have mine set correct and have no issues. I will say that if I was having issues I would try adjusting slightly forward before giving up on them because that's how I operate. Might be worth a din test if you are running them further forward if you are concerned about safety which is why I thnk we all bought the binder. I am running my AFD slight tighter than recommended. Seems like a lot of people have been tinkering with this binding more than I have ever seen for a binding.
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03-28-2019, 12:14 AM #2004
tomjensen is on Lange XT Free 130 boots. Anyone else using those boots and either having or not having prerelease issues? Is it possible the heel shelf on the XT Free is higher than typical? Doesn't seem like it would be a problem since they're supposed to be more like an alpine boot, but just wondering.
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03-28-2019, 08:11 AM #2005
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03-28-2019, 08:23 AM #2006Registered User
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03-28-2019, 08:24 AM #2007
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03-28-2019, 08:26 AM #2008Registered User
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03-28-2019, 08:45 AM #2009
Just to add to the confusion of the manual vs what people are saying. Our rep said to crank up the afd as opposed to leaving the 0.5mm gap the manual shows.
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03-28-2019, 08:51 AM #2010Registered User
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03-28-2019, 09:00 AM #2011
Back from another good touring day with lots of jumps. Heel din on 12 and making sure to clear the snow seemed to do it. Still some fatties to flatty, and no faceplants.
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03-28-2019, 09:29 AM #2012Registered User
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I've got Shifts on one pair of skis and no issues* with my 2017 or 2019 Freetours (got the newer ones in late December, IIRC). The 2019 Freetours I do ski with the DIN soles for race-binding compatibility, so I did crank the AFDs way up on the Shifts.
*: the one prerelease was a combination of use error (skied into a waterbar that was bigger and sharper than I thought) and setting error (hadn't double-checked after the shop mounted 'em, heels were at 7).
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03-28-2019, 10:04 AM #2013
I’ll chime in after reading pages and pages of this thread an say I’ve had zero problems on my 17/18 wtr soled 130 freetours, with 10 resort days ( mostly soft power days as these are mounted on my goats)
Forward pressure is as recommended, flush, and afd properly set and spaced and it has not changed since I set it. ( you just need to understand how the mechanism works to set it right so it doesn’t move)
I’ve had one slow speed release hitting a shark ( heal release) and one high speed real high energy compression hitting a traverse line from above where I was surprised the ski did not pop off.
For what it’s worth, despite skiing relatively hard and fast, because of knee injuries I keep my dins on the low side at 8, I weigh around 190. I don’t huck anything that doesn’t have a steep deep landing and generally don’t have release problems at din 8 unless I fuck up. This goes for multiple binders that I ski on with the exception of fks binders which have crazy elasticity and will stay on more often then not in a bad situations which my knees don’t like)
Ultimately if you stay balanced on your skis and are not crashing the bindings should not pop off. Cranking dins and forward pressure to compensate should not be the solution.
I do agree with setting the dins to a level that you have tested to work for your style of skiing, ie pop off at 8 doing X but stay on at 9.5 doing the same thing.
My engineering spidy senses don’t buy the harmonic high speed loading unloading of a ski beyond the speed of the heal spring recovery theory as a cause for unexpected heal release.
Unfortunately IMHO in most instances it’s likely user error: either improper set up, snow between the binder and boot or bad technique, being all over the place in how you keep you body balanced over you skis when you ski.
So fix your skiing and get balanced, make sure your binders are properly mounted and set up, clear your boots of snow before you step in and don’t huck huge drops to flats and all should be good,
Alternatively, crank your dins and forward pressure to compensate and release at the knee.
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03-28-2019, 10:56 AM #2014
I totally agree with this. After my knee injury I've really focused on my form and core strength, and have been progressively lowering my DIN without noticing as much prerelease as before raising to a higher DIN.
Started at 9.5 on my pivots and am currently back down to 8. Still hucking the same cliffs.
I'm 5'10" and 165lbs.
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03-28-2019, 10:57 AM #2015Registered User
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I think there are some material tolerances at play here, too, causing some bindings to align perfectly and others to be slightly off. When I adjusted mine aligning the triangles with the center of the rectangle nub placed the back of the metal slightly out from flush with the plastic housing. Aligning the back of the metal flush with the plastic housing placed the triangles close to in line with the back of the rectangle nub rather than the center. I split the difference, which was all of maybe a quarter or half turn of the screw. I wouldn't be surprised if some bindings align perfectly while others are in my camp and off by about a half millimeter.
It does seem really strange for Solly to create two separate alignment references. That's just asking for confusion.
Side note: I've only had one possible pre-release the whole time with my setup, and I'm pretty sure that was due to the AFD drop issue rather than forward pressure since it hasn't happened again after readjusting the AFDs.
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03-28-2019, 12:46 PM #2016Registered User
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03-28-2019, 01:42 PM #2017Registered User
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And to the point to keeping your weight centered above the ski: People, myself included, are walking out of these things even with increased DIN. If your ski pops off and you ski away on the other, then your weight likely isn't far enough off center to warrant a release.
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03-28-2019, 04:06 PM #2018Registered User
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Anyone else having this issue? This little pin on the heal piece keeps sneaking out on me. I first noticed when I could not get my heel riser down (it was stuck in the up position) as it was getting blocked from going down by the pin sticking out. It creeps out slowly but surely on the skin up. I take the pointy end of my pole and shove it back in with provides a temporary solution. I have the prototypes (17-18) and not this years first full production run models btw. Sorry for the low quality pics and sorry if this has already been discussed.
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03-28-2019, 06:28 PM #2019
That's a new one. Prototypes huh?
I don't have mine in front of me right now but does the pin need to freely spin, or can the boot heel platform rotate around the pin? If it doesn't need to spin you could just epoxy it in there for a quick and dirty fix.
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03-28-2019, 07:51 PM #2020
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03-28-2019, 07:52 PM #2021
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03-28-2019, 08:03 PM #2022Registered User
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I doubt it too. And by prototype I mean that I got them in the spring of 2018 as opposed to the full release of the product in fall 2018. To their credit, they have not failed in any way other than that pin wiggling out.
I don't think that the pin rotates but I would have to have a closer look, Epoxy is what I had thought of as a solution as well.
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03-28-2019, 09:40 PM #2023Registered User
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I would ask Dave about it^^
if you bring the ski over with yer skins I have epoxyLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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03-28-2019, 11:30 PM #2024
You do know that a plastic cutting board and a 'tele' or 'splitboard' riser weighs about half that? I guess you do drill another hole in your ski... but it's much simpler and weighs less. Not sure if it would hit the boot in the right spot, but maybe? Will have to play around with it.
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03-29-2019, 08:33 AM #2025
What DIN are you guys running at? On my Vipecs I generally run 11, which basically gives me a point of release just short of a major pulled muscle in the calf (I can ski the next day, but its a bit sore and has me hobbling a bit). I've only released when I've landed a bit forward on pretty large cliffs (25'+), so I feel like that's a good place to leave the release tension at.
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