The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[galibier_numero_un]

One thing I'd love to see is x-ray shots of various boots, to see where the plane of the boot board is. That's what we're all trying to reference.

... Thom

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[1000-oaks]

Played with the AFD last night, Cody is definitely right about adjusting tricks. The mechanism is basically two plates that are tongue-in-groove at a 45 degree angle. One plate is attached to the adjustment screw and only moves laterally, while the other is trapped in a longitudinal channel and push/pulls a spring-loaded floating wedge that moves fore-aft between the sliding-AFD portion and the base of the mechanism. The top edge of the wedge is stair-stepped, as is the underside of the sliding-AFD unit. As others have said, the screw has continuous movement, but the wedge moves in increments. You definitely don't want any load on the AFD when making adjustments, as the stair-steps will catch on each other.

When adjusting the AFD upward toward the boot, notice how the mechanism clicks roughly every 1.25 turns of the screw. That's the wedge jumping to the next step. So you definitely don't want to stop adjusting right after it clicks, because you're right on the edge of a step and a hard landing on the AFD could drop it down to the next lower step. Adjust upward until the AFD makes its last click before touching your boot, then tighten the screw 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn so the current step is fully engaged, and stop. DO NOT REVERSE THE DIRECTION OF THE SCREW. If you do, you'll leave play between the grooved plates and the floating wedge, which will allow wedge to pop out and the AFD will drop next time it's weighted.

So if you went too far and need to adjust the AFD down, back it down well away from the boot sole, and then make another run at adjusting it upward. Listen and look for the last click as you move the AFD into final position, then tighten 1/2 to 3/4 turn, and stop. Again, if you have to reverse the screw, drop the AFD way down and start over.

This is a lot easier to see before the toe is mounted on the ski, so play with it first and see how it works from the underside and from the front of the AFD.

[Fish Rider]

New shift issue one toe won't lock down in ski Mode even when completely dry. So ski pops off at less than opportune times... Don't want to donate a ski to the japow snow gods this trip. Looks like warranty time when I get back to states. I'm at 10 DIN at 180 btw.

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[margotron]

Mercurys/Vulcans which have 8mm of delta in the Shift. I like 2mm of delta so I'll use a 6mm shim.
—
That's not correct. Mock it up yourself and see how the angle for the boot sole changes versus the same boot sat on a level surface. Your hypothesis is correct with a Warden type binding were the AFD is fixed and the toe wings move up and down to accomodate different boot soles.

I think you’re both right and are talking past each other.

With alpine boots, the shift delta is 1mm I believe and thus does not need shimming. This is due to the thickness (or thinness) of the toe shank on alpine boots because they lack pin holes.

With Mercurys, shifts exhibit an 8mm delta. This figure is fixed - like jdadour tried to imply - because the toe doesn’t go up and down, the AFD does. So the only way to adjust the delta, like Spyderjon did, is to shim it.

My Kryptons and Lupos have different deltas in shifts.

[Judo Chop!]

Just made myself some delta reducing shims:

That looks great. I had previously bought & used a shim kit for my Kingpins, but the shim was too much so I went back to stock. I wouldn't mind a small shim in my Shifts.

How much shimming can you do with the stock screws, without risking pullout? at what point do you get different screws (and from where & lengths?)
How have you handled that Spyderjon? thanks.

[Fish Rider]

New shift issue one toe won't lock down in ski Mode even when completely dry. So ski pops off at less than opportune times... Don't want to donate a ski to the japow snow gods this trip. Looks like warranty time when I get back to states. I'm at 10 DIN at 180 btw.

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Anyone know a good binding tech in hakuba or nagano?

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[Spyderjon]

.......How much shimming can you do with the stock screws, without risking pullout? at what point do you get different screws (and from where & lengths?) How have you handled that Spyderjon? thanks.

I use QK inserts so using shims is a doddle. I wouldn't use any shim with the stock screws so you're going to have source longer ones. A good ski tech will have a big box of spare screws on the shelf and it's just a case of sorting them to finding ones of the same head style/diameter and of the appropriate length.

[galibier_numero_un]

If it were me, I wouldn't back the screws much - less than a turn (maybe 2mm?). Basically what spyderjon said.

Even that (2mm shim) assumes a healthy thread (no spinners or near-spinners), along with good epoxy.

Just get longer screws.

If you're in lthe US, check with maggot alpinord/Terry (Slidewright) for longer screws.

... Thom

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[Jongle]

[Instructions for adjusting AFD]

That was super helpful, thanks for writing it out clearly.

[jdadour]

I think you’re both right and are talking past each other.

With alpine boots, the shift delta is 1mm I believe and thus does not need shimming. This is due to the thickness (or thinness) of the toe shank on alpine boots because they lack pin holes.

With Mercurys, shifts exhibit an 8mm delta. This figure is fixed - like jdadour tried to imply - because the toe doesn’t go up and down, the AFD does. So the only way to adjust the delta, like Spyderjon did, is to shim it.

My Kryptons and Lupos have different deltas in shifts.

Then this isnt necessarily the Shift creating the ramp, its the ramp of the Mercury/Vulcan boot being 8mm and needing a shim to flatten out the ramp regardless of binding??

Will be taking ramp measurements of my Lupos with Alpine soles and Grip Walk soles to see what occurs.

[snowtastic]

Toured my shifts for the first time. At first I couldn’t get the brakes to lock due to snow buildup. When I finally had the brakes up they flipped down after a couple of minutes.

I know that is a common problem - what’s the current status on that? Is there a trick I’m missing?

[ffmedic84]

I just brush what I can out by hand than cycle the brake a few times to get the rest. Make sure when you hear/feel it click when you lock the brakes up and they shouldn't release.

[Chugachjed]

Anyone mount shifts on a ski that was previously mounted for STH2s? Is there a hole conflict?

[lucknau]

Toured my shifts for the first time. At first I couldn’t get the brakes to lock due to snow buildup. When I finally had the brakes up they flipped down after a couple of minutes.

I know that is a common problem - what’s the current status on that? Is there a trick I’m missing?

It's been covered, but yeah, they pop into place on a cam, and there's also a latch. If you only set the cam (like by stomping down with your heel) the latch might not always engage, and the brakes will slip out really easily.

Try this:
Flip the heel lever and get the brakes raised into tour mode and then grab and lift the brakes with your fingers while pushing the lever down hard with your thumbs until you hear a louder POP. There's still a possibility of having the brakes get knocked down, but it's greatly reduced at this point.

[detrusor]

They are sending me out 2 new afd‘ no charge....


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[Spyderjon]

Anyone mount shifts on a ski that was previously mounted for STH2s? Is there a hole conflict?

Pic attached of the Shift & STH2 WTR mounting locations, both mounting on the line with the jigs set to the same bsl (310mm in this case). As you can see the Shifts middle toe location share the rear toe location on the STH2 (and the Warden 13) and there's no problem with the other toe holes. It's the heel holes were the problem lies - they look close enough to share a set of holes but the STH2 holes are on a 32mm lateral spacing whereas the Shifts are 36mm apart. However the Shift jig will position the heel on it's track in such a place that it then has 12mm of rearward adjustment and 18mm of forward adjustment - therefore if your ski are already drilled for the STH2's then you could mount the Shift heel 13mm back to give 10mm centre to centre spacing between the rear heel locations but there would still be enough forward adjustment in the Shift to get the forward pressure right etc. If you try mounting the Shift heel forward of the existing holes then once you've got enough separation between the locations you won't have enough adjustment left on the Shift track to position the heel in the correct place etc.

[406]

^^^Thanks for the info, I had been thinking about inserts for both. The attachment doesn't seem to work?

[skibrd]

So apparently my Shifts are fine and it’s user error. I guess I’m just not a good candidate for Shifts? I’m confused now and semi grumpy since my custom Protests are drilled for a binding that won’t work for me.


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[Cdubmpdx]

So apparently my Shifts are fine and it’s user error. I guess I’m just not a good candidate for Shifts? I’m confused now and semi grumpy since my custom Protests are drilled for a binding that won’t work for me.


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What did they suggest as the "error" out of curiosity?

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[margotron]

What did they suggest as the "error" out of curiosity?

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ditto

[skibrd]

What did they suggest as the "error" out of curiosity?

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Forward pressure and din not set correctly, so same issues everyone else who keeps walking out is having?

What I’ve gotten out of this is an 11 and correct forward pressure on a Pivot 18is not an 11 and correct forward pressure on a Marker/Atomic/etc DIN are not equal, which I thought they were.

I’m sticking to Pivot 18s, Kingpin 13s and CAST. They have proven again and again to hold me in unless I shouldn’t be in the binding. Others, not so much. Lesson learned.


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[margotron]

Forward pressure and din not set correctly, so same issues everyone else who keeps walking out is having?

What I’ve gotten out of this is an 11 and correct forward pressure on a Pivot 18is not an 11 and correct forward pressure on a Marker/Atomic/etc DIN are not equal, which I thought they were.

I’m sticking to Pivot 18s, Kingpin 13s and CAST. They have proven again and again to hold me in unless I shouldn’t be in the binding. Others, not so much. Lesson learned.


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Same experience but I’m skiing 12 and slightly increased forward pressure rather than bailing. I still have DIN 13 in the bag if I need to.

If guys that shred way harder than me rock them, there must be something to that.

[1000-oaks]

What I’ve gotten out of this is an 11 and correct forward pressure on a Pivot 18is not an 11 and correct forward pressure on a Marker/Atomic/etc DIN are not equal, which I thought they were.

The force to release at 11 is the same in all, but the Pivot gives you a lot more travel on the way out, so there's more time for the boot to come back in. Kind of like comparing 8" downhill bike suspension to 4" XC bike; the spring rate could be the same for both, but the DH sled will soak up a lot where the XC bike bottoms out and kills your mojo.

[bw_wp_hedonism]

Anyone not able to raise AFD as much as they should? Mine appears to top out really low... sorry if already covered before.

[MnO_____]

Some seems to not realize that "retention like an alpine bindning" means just that. Within the expression "alpine bindning" there are both good and bad options. We have been discussing different alpine bindings and their release characteristics for decades in this forum and there are some that are really good and some that are known to pre-release way too often. Then when someone states that the Shift "skis like an alpine bindning", everyone seems to demand that they do not just ski like an alpine binding, but rather ski and keep you in as good or better as the best alpine bindings. They do not. The are acceptable for most of us in terms of retention, but they are still just a medium level binding in their alpine mode.