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  1. #1126
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    4,764
    ^ B&D could crank out some heel shims.

  2. #1127
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    4
    Hate to see the failure. Hoping to get some more info.

  3. #1128
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    298
    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    So, if you're running a small sized, purely alpine boot (one with tech inserts- of course), you can end up with your toe "pulling a wheelie."
    Huh - how does bsl affect the difference in both absolute (and not only angle) terms? (honest question, i do not understand how it would ) I mean, 3mm is 3mm no matter what BSL you run, where BSL seemingly only would alter the angle of the ramp, not the ramp as measured in difference in height.

    Is it down to sole characteristics on specific boot models or what? I just cannot for the life of me understand why putting the bindings closer together on the same mount pattern would increase the difference in height

    Name:  leelau shift.png
Views: 906
Size:  298.1 KB

    ref https://www.newschoolers.com/news/re...ouring-Binding

  4. #1129
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    4,764
    Issue with adjustible AFD toes is the stack height & ramp changes depending on boot type. With Shift / Lord / Duke / etc, the toe stack is maxed (and ramp minimized) with an alpine boot. With a binding like the Warden, toe stack is fixed and the wings are adjusted upward, so ramp never changes even if the boot does.

  5. #1130
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    688
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Huh - how does bsl affect the difference in both absolute (and not only angle) terms? (honest question, i do not understand how it would ) I mean, 3mm is 3mm no matter what BSL you run, where BSL seemingly only would alter the angle of the ramp, not the ramp as measured in difference in height.

    Is it down to sole characteristics on specific boot models or what? I just cannot for the life of me understand why putting the bindings closer together on the same mount pattern would increase the difference in height
    You're correct that there's no difference in the relative heights of the toe and heel - this is why delta is measured in mm as opposed to the number degrees of tilt of the boot.

    However it's the degrees of tilt that is noticable to the skier and the shorter the boot sole length the greater the angle/tilt of the boot will be, even though the height differences are the same.

    That 17/24 stack height is misleading as it's not the true delta as the measurements are only made to the top sheet and the skis are likely to be different thicknesses where measured. The actual delta of the Shift with a Vulcan/Mercury installed with the correct forward pressure and toe height adjustment is 8mm.

  6. #1131
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    10,792
    Also recall the 17/24 stack height I measured is centre of tech toe piece/centre of tech fitting. Confusingly there is no standard for where that's placed on a boot. I did clarify the methodology when measuring for that reason

  7. #1132
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    vernon
    Posts
    2,235
    after the g3 thread I am really disappointed in the lack of drama here. I am getting mine mounted today....
    www.skevikskis.com Check em out!

  8. #1133
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,779
    Quote Originally Posted by el hefe View Post
    after the g3 thread I am really disappointed in the lack of drama here. I am getting mine mounted today....
    I totally agree. Very un-TGR dammit!

    Where is Cody on this!?!?

    LOCK HIM UP!

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  9. #1134
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    T-town, CO. USA
    Posts
    2,089
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Huh - how does bsl affect the difference in both absolute (and not only angle) terms? (honest question, i do not understand how it would ) I mean, 3mm is 3mm no matter what BSL you run, where BSL seemingly only would alter the angle of the ramp, not the ramp as measured in difference in height.

    Is it down to sole characteristics on specific boot models or what? I just cannot for the life of me understand why putting the bindings closer together on the same mount pattern would increase the difference in height

    Name:  leelau shift.png
Views: 906
Size:  298.1 KB

    ref https://www.newschoolers.com/news/re...ouring-Binding
    The shorter the boot, the more dramatic the ramp angle. Think about it.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  10. #1135
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    298
    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    The shorter the boot, the more dramatic the ramp angle. Think about it.
    To quote somebody on TV: Serenity Now!

    If you read what I wrote and did not come away with that I 100% understand that a shorter bsl = increased angle if the height differences remain the same, then either my writing skills suck or somebody needs to read stuff with less of a bias...

    My question was not regarding the angle, but the absolute height difference front and back (based on LeeLau's findings quoted above) and what I read as that height difference increasing as BSL got shorter. That made no sense to me, hence the question.

    It also made just about 0% sense that an alpine binding is taller in the front than in the rear, but then again, I might have misunderstood something. When I do not understand something, I try to ask instead of just assuming things.

    My question was replied to in #1129, and the assumption that all boot soles are not made identically, which together explain the phenomenon. Jubilations.

    Thanks for the replies though.

  11. #1136
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Vernon BC
    Posts
    1,557
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    To quote somebody on TV: Serenity Now!

    If you read what I wrote and did not come away with that I 100% understand that a shorter bsl = increased angle if the height differences remain the same, then either my writing skills suck or somebody needs to read stuff with less of a bias...

    My question was not regarding the angle, but the absolute height difference front and back (based on LeeLau's findings quoted above) and what I read as that height difference increasing as BSL got shorter. That made no sense to me, hence the question.

    It also made just about 0% sense that an alpine binding is taller in the front than in the rear, but then again, I might have misunderstood something. When I do not understand something, I try to ask instead of just assuming things.

    My question was replied to in #1129, and the assumption that all boot soles are not made identically, which together explain the phenomenon. Jubilations.

    Thanks for the replies though.
    Does the calculation change if the heel is still attached or not?
    "Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto

  12. #1137
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Brohemia
    Posts
    2,025
    Quote Originally Posted by reckless toboggan View Post
    I totally agree. Very un-TGR dammit!

    Where is Cody on this!?!?

    LOCK HIM UP!

    Yeah, sorry, been busy packing up my belongings, stuffing the truck and getting a head start on the pitchforks and tiki torches.

  13. #1138
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    idaho panhandle!
    Posts
    6,248
    Quote Originally Posted by pembyguy View Post
    Attachment 258768Yea legit.. Mounted professionally tested etc. Industry pro.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Post up more photos and how it happened. The one iffy photo and lack of discussion is interesting.

  14. #1139
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    16,308
    Don't over react, broken heelpieces only qualify for tar n feathers
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #1140
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    27,971
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    tiki torches.
    That's not an angry mob it's a Jimmy Buffett audience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  16. #1141
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Summit North
    Posts
    5,404
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Don't over react, broken heelpieces only qualify for tar n feathers
    Meh, that is a reach, swirly, super wedgie at best...
    Alpental Indigenous

  17. #1142
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,779
    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    Post up more photos and how it happened. The one iffy photo and lack of discussion is interesting.
    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  18. #1143
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Brohemia
    Posts
    2,025
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    That's not an angry mob it's a Jimmy Buffett audience.
    Ahh, that makes sense now. They were angry because Jimmy didn't show up in Charlotte.

  19. #1144
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Couloirfornia
    Posts
    8,544
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik View Post
    Ahh, that makes sense now. They were angry because Jimmy didn't show up in Charlotte.
    That, and mom didn't bring the meatloaf fast enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  20. #1145
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,025
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    That's not an angry mob it's a Jimmy Buffett audience.
    Not ready to say some of those folks are fine people

  21. #1146
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    20sickness
    Posts
    481
    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    That, and mom didn't bring the meatloaf fast enough.
    What is she doing all day!?

  22. #1147
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,779
    Quote Originally Posted by brown9 View Post
    What is she doing all day!?
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BrGF1pjAQba/
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  23. #1148
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    north aspect
    Posts
    39,910
    Quote Originally Posted by brown9 View Post
    What is she doing all day!?
    i’m finished and just sent her home
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  24. #1149
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    voting in seattle
    Posts
    3,849
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Issue with adjustible AFD toes is the stack height & ramp changes depending on boot type. With Shift / Lord / Duke / etc, the toe stack is maxed (and ramp minimized) with an alpine boot. With a binding like the Warden, toe stack is fixed and the wings are adjusted upward, so ramp never changes even if the boot does.
    Issue with fixed afd bindings like the Warden/STH is while the binding delta is always the same, you see more variable in internal delta due to different sole styles changing the distance between the rubber and your foot. I think you will find there is more consistency between the flat top of the lugs and your foot than where the AFD contacts.

  25. #1150
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    262
    First day on snow with the Shifts inbounds at Mammoth yesterday. Looking forward to getting them out on a tour soon. A couple of notes:

    They felt really good in the crud -just like an alpine binding. That was where I really noticed the toes of my Kingpins getting knocked around the past couple of seasons. Had one release exactly when I would have expected to. No issues there.

    I was in new skis, boots, and bindings yesterday. So I canít say with 100% certainty it was the bindingsí ramp angle, but I definitely felt more backseat than normal.

    I think the AFDs, and trying to correctly set their .5mm gap, are going to be an issue for people. After an hour or two I noticed one of mine had become noticeably loose. I adjusted it up a bit, but within another hour it was loose again. My guess is that Iím on the wrong end of one of the ďindexedĒ parts of its adjustment range, so Iím going to raise it overly high without the boot in, lower it until itís kissing the sole, and then lower it another quarter turn or so. Hopefully this fixes it. If not, I may try to get in contact with Salomon for a replacement AFD.

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