The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[Shredeagle]

I ski alpine boots in shifts during lift season. It pretty much ruined one of my favorite skis because they were always popping out. I took them to the shop and the first tech said they were fine even when I would show them the toe play. I could stand on the ski on either side of the binding and then pull on the boot and the toe would slam up. Another tech came up and set the AFD after we had slammed the toe up. Now the bindings are bomber. Spent all weekend hucking 10 -20 footers onto hardpack and they were perfect. Totally stoked. Take away for me is the AFDs need to be super high to fit the alpine boots right and we had to set them after slamming the toes up. I don’t know if it matters but I ski atomic hawk boots and the shifts are on some bent chetlers. I was ready to throw them away and 1 week later feeling pretty good charging on some pretty poor snow.

[kootenayskier]

I ski alpine boots in shifts during lift season. It pretty much ruined one of my favorite skis because they were always popping out. I took them to the shop and the first tech said they were fine even when I would show them the toe play. I could stand on the ski on either side of the binding and then pull on the boot and the toe would slam up. Another tech came up and set the AFD after we had slammed the toe up. Now the bindings are bomber. Spent all weekend hucking 10 -20 footers onto hardpack and they were perfect. Totally stoked. Take away for me is the AFDs need to be super high to fit the alpine boots right and we had to set them after slamming the toes up. I don’t know if it matters but I ski atomic hawk boots and the shifts are on some bent chetlers. I was ready to throw them away and 1 week later feeling pretty good charging on some pretty poor snow.

Yes, if I crank the AFD a up a to maximum height, a full step up from contact with my boot sole, and I set the DIN a two values up from usual (10 to 12), I’m able to ski them on a powder day without prereleases. However even at these settings, I still feel and hear unusual vertical play in the toe (more disconcerting than a functional issue) and it’s impossible to know how it’s impacting their safe releaseability.

[Spyderjon]

Yes, if I crank the AFD a up a to maximum height, a full step up from contact with my boot sole, and I set the DIN a two values up from usual (10 to 12), I’m able to ski them on a powder day without prereleases. However even at these settings, I still feel and hear unusual vertical play in the toe (more disconcerting than a functional issue) and it’s impossible to know how it’s impacting their safe releaseability.

Assuming your boot soles aren't worn out of spec then if you were my customer I'd be warranty'ing those toes.

[GoldenBC]

No I'm not talking out of my ass. If you took the time to properly read my post you will see my comment was responding to kootenayskier's post ie "I just figured they’d (the Shifts) be fine for smooth, technical, skis on the snow, hardly ever fall, 50 plus powder skiing. I’m not sure they are." So what I was saying was that a good proportion of my Shift sales are to this market and for which the Shifts are perfect. So I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

My apologies. I was talking out my ass. I thought you were saying they work for FWT style skiing. I agree with you that they do work for 50+ powder skiing. I regularly tell people they are perfect for dad pow skiing. I still stand by the idea that they don't charge reliably and it's not due to set up.

[Brasso]

FYI I broke the adjustment screw on the AFD (bit of a story). My local shop was able to order order (2) for $30 each. The new ones did seem to adjust better, but I am not sure if that is due to one being used and one being new....

Wait, I just did the same. Did it feel like the AFD came to a hard stop, and you just aped out and kept cranking? Because that's what happened to me...I mean, a friend of mine.

Atomic took a while to respond to the shop I warranted through, but a new entire AFD is on its way to me. My local shop said that you couldn't just replace the screw. So you can replace just the screw, after all?

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[detrusor]

I had pulled the wife’s boots up, was not turning the afd adjustment hard at all when I broke hers. They warrantied the afd


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Brasso]

That screw is really suspect.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[XXX-er]

I always pry between boot & AFD with a big screwdriver and then check for daylight between boot/ AFD which might work well in this app ?

[Yanos]

Wait, I just did the same. Did it feel like the AFD came to a hard stop, and you just aped out and kept cranking? Because that's what happened to me...I mean, a friend of mine.

Atomic took a while to respond to the shop I warranted through, but a new entire AFD is on its way to me. My local shop said that you couldn't just replace the screw. So you can replace just the screw, after all?

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

I may have put a bit-o-force behind it... It was jamming halfway through the adjustment range. I saw that there was no way to to remove the screw, so i threw a little torque to her. Pop!

[TheK12]

Hard to get a read on the Shift based on this thread and reconciling that with the opinions of people I see skiing them. Everytime I see somebody on a shift, I ask how they like them and if they've had any pre-release issues and by and large, most people love them and indicate no problems with them. In fact, talked to somebody today that said they skied them everyday at snowbird and loved them. I'm pretty sure most people I'm asking aren't doing alot of touring and probably aren't hucking or maching anything -the person I asked today was skinning up PCMR.... Anyway, trying to decide if this is the binding for my wife who does mellow tours and inbounds "exercise" skinning. No plans to ski them aggressive but would like them to stay on on hardpack, spring corn, thick mellow powder, and the occasional bump run. Definitely not an everyday binding for her but hoping for some confidence when she does ski them.

[detrusor]

Ski coach of m kids who is a great skier/racer and probably all of 150 pounds has been coming out of the heels constantly....dins now 13, set up properly and still an issue.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[rip]

Shifts obviously seem to work well enough for many people (including myself) as a mediocre (ok, but not good at either) hybrid binding, when used with touring, gripwalk, or WTR soles. However from first hand experience, and after discussing the matter at length with my local shop techs, Shifts simply do not work as advertised when adjusted for Alpine DIN soles. The extreme erect angle and limited contact surface of the AFD required, combined with the quirky and unstable stepped adjustment mechanism makes them poorer performing (my boot moves more than I find acceptable in the binding) and less reliable (they release unpredictably) for high performance skiing than the even the cheapest regular alpine binding of comparable DIN from any manufacturer. I’m open to understanding what I’m doing wrong, what might be unique about my boots, or what might be defective about my bindings, but I don’t find sales a convincing argument. 84% of the World’s population believe that supernatural entities underpin reality, so I’m skeptical of the wisdom of crowds.

Yes, if I crank the AFD a up a to maximum height, a full step up from contact with my boot sole, and I set the DIN a two values up from usual (10 to 12), I’m able to ski them on a powder day without prereleases. However even at these settings, I still feel and hear unusual vertical play in the toe (more disconcerting than a functional issue) and it’s impossible to know how it’s impacting their safe releaseability.

Wayyyyy back in this thread I have some posts that say this exact same thing and people jumped on me for it. I moved on from the shifts and have been much happier. If shifts work for you, then that's cool, but don't discount opinions like this. Put one ski over the top of your other ski to hold it in place and wiggle your boot laterally.. try and blow up a duff pile at speed on a skied off firm groomer, you can feel the 'elasticity' of the toe design. In the end they weren't confidence inspiring to me and I moved on.

[Kevo]

No issues for me since mounting the fixed AFD and setting the bindings up correctly. In the case of my prerelease issue, I think the shop techs not knowing how to set up the bindings was the issue.

[tupp_]

This is what gives me concerns - similar weight on my end. Skiing these with alpine soles at +1 from the shop setting, I was getting crazy heel releases (4x in a day). I suspected this was due to snow on the heel, but I came out the next day when specifically clearing each heel aggressively.

Currently running 9.5 din, and haven’t sent it too hard since blowing out previously. Would love input on those running DIN soles and experiencing heel releases.

Note - set up toes “properly” from a guy who works at the soloman store and have had no issues up front.

Ski coach of m kids who is a great skier/racer and probably all of 150 pounds has been coming out of the heels constantly....dins now 13, set up properly and still an issue.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[anotherVTskibum]

Note - set up toes “properly” from a guy who works at the soloman store and have had no issues up front.

Don't assume the AFD height won't affect heel release. The one prerelease I've had was at the heel, but it was also with my AFD too low, probably due to drift after setting it. None since fixing that.

Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app

[V.R.P]

Anyway, trying to decide if this is the binding for my wife who does mellow tours and inbounds "exercise" skinning. No plans to ski them aggressive but would like them to stay on on hardpack, spring corn, thick mellow powder, and the occasional bump run. Definitely not an everyday binding for her but hoping for some confidence when she does ski them.

Get her on a proper tech binding for mellow touring is my $0.02. We got my wife a setup with Shifts for inbounds skinning and mellow tours thinking it would give her another ski for the resort plus the predictable release provides peace of mind. She hates skinning and transition with them when I’m on pins. The weight and the fiddle factor offsets the benefits. If you’re looking for a quiver of one setup or she’s skiing them hard it makes sense otherwise I don’t think it’s worth the cost and hassle.

[TheK12]

Get her on a proper tech binding for mellow touring is my $0.02. We got my wife a setup with Shifts for inbounds skinning and mellow tours thinking it would give her another ski for the resort plus the predictable release provides peace of mind. She hates skinning and transition with them when I’m on pins. The weight and the fiddle factor offsets the benefits. If you’re looking for a quiver of one setup or she’s skiing them hard it makes sense otherwise I don’t think it’s worth the cost and hassle.

Sounds like a similar situation and hadn't considered the high fiddle factor. Great data point. Thanks!

[spaulding24]

I'm joining the ranks of the never-again-shifters. I've had issues with migrating AFDs on them (especially my right ski), but tried to stay on top of proper AFD setting. Only prerelease prior to this was by my right ski in chatter with excess play in the AFD. I had adjusted them about 2 hours prior to my bad prerelease.

Jumped off a windlip into about 12 inches of PNW mank. Visibility was poor and the terrain had no contrast, so I just bombholed cause I couldn't see the landing.

Stayed in my skis and started downhill again, but my very next turn I prereleased. It was a hard ~25mph carve uphill into a wind feature. The type of turn you can only do in wet powder. I loaded up my downhill ski for the turn and my toe pivoted out of the shift. It was definitely a toe first release.

I think the AFD of my right binding ratcheted down during the bombhole and was primed to release during a hard turn. Doesn't help I'm 6'3" and 190 lbs.

I lost my fucking ski because of this so I'm a never-shifter because I could never trust them again and because I only have one shift. Gawd damn it


Sent from my Pixel 3a using TGR Forums mobile app

[V.R.P]

Sounds like a similar situation and hadn't considered the high fiddle factor. Great data point. Thanks!

Don’t underestimate the weight penalty either. I’m 50lbs heavier yet she’s pushing probably an extra .5-1lbs PER FOOT compared to my touring setup.

[anotherVTskibum]

Sounds like a similar situation and hadn't considered the high fiddle factor. Great data point. Thanks!

IMO, the fiddle factor isn't all that bad unless you're good at stripping skins with a ski on and in deep-enough snow to make removing a ski painful; and lateral toe release is a significant safety improvement over most tech bindings. The Tecton offers that lateral toe release, though, without needing to remove the ski to strip skins.

[V.R.P]

Compared to turn heel, stomp, buckle, unlock toe, and rip skins I think it kind of sucks. I usually do all that then help my lady convert a ski over while she does the other.

[Full Trucker]

My maneuver with the Shift is to use a pole to release the toe from the pins on one ski, then reach down and change the toe piece into ski mode (I can do this with one hand in a glove), flip the brake lock doohickey up (which I think can maybe be done with a pole even?), and then click that boot back in. Repeat procedure with the other foot. Then, rip skins with boots in the bindings and skis on the feets just like when in my tech binders. Honestly... maybe I just royally suck at the "rotate the heel piece with my pole" action with my Dynafiddles, but I find the whole process of transition on the Shifts to be maybe 15-30 seconds longer than tech bindings.

I just bought new boots, which have a slightly shorter BSL and toe/heel height than my previous boots. Thanks to posters in this thread, I found the LeeLau article and I'm 98% certain I got them adjusted to the new boots properly. The tips on making sure the AFD stays put were clutch, I would not have likely figured that whole stepped screw adjustment thinger out had I not read it. I have friend who is a new skier, and got Shifts at a bunch of us recommendation, and his AFD have migrated downward. He didn't adjust his at all, so assumably the shop that sold him the setup didn't get them quite right. I'll have a look at his and make sure they're solid now that I know the secret handshake... he's been keeping an eye on them.

I've owned these bindings for three seasons now, I pre-ordered then and bought them at full pop the year they came out. I'm not sending hucks, am a medium speed skier, but I do ski the steep technical terrain when I can find it (usually when I leave Colorado), and often in pretty variable snow conditions. In a normal year I tour about 1 day for every 2-3 inbounds days, and until this year I've only had one pair of skis, and it has the Shift on it. I'm a bigger guy, 6'2" and ~200lbs, and other than clacking the brakes together and having them deploy while skinning a handful of times—I haven't had a single pre-release or any other issues with these bindings. Boots were Scarpa Freedom SL, just bought a pair of Lange XT3 Tours. Hopefully I have as good of luck with this new boot/binding combo as I had previously.

I'm just another data point. YMMV.

[CirqueScaler]

Transitioning a SHIFT can be smooth & quick, but you still have to take your ski off. I started in the BC with SHIFTs and had no problems at all with them. But I quickly sold because of 1) weight, 2) transitions, and 3) I was worried that I would start having problems with them.

Really interesting thread, thanks.

[MiddleOfNight]

My maneuver with the Shift is to use a pole to release the toe from the pins on one ski, then reach down and change the toe piece into ski mode (I can do this with one hand in a glove), flip the brake lock doohickey up (which I think can maybe be done with a pole even?), and then click that boot back in. Repeat procedure with the other foot. Then, rip skins with boots in the bindings and skis on the feets just like when in my tech binders. Honestly... maybe I just royally suck at the "rotate the heel piece with my pole" action with my Dynafiddles, but I find the whole process of transition on the Shifts to be maybe 15-30 seconds longer than tech bindings.

I'm just another data point. YMMV.

I'm not skimo racing. At transition we're putting on layers and having a snack and telling lies - I'm sure not holding up the show to transition - so no big deal. My skins are too sticky to take off with the ski on, and I like to scrape any ice off the base before we ski anyhow. Kick one ski off, make adjustments and rip skin, put ski back on. Repeat.

I'm 100% touring, have both shifts and dynafits - I think the shifts ski much better and I prefer their release. Weight could be a factor, but I'm on yudge skis, I like to lift weights and I drink lots of beer (i'm too heavy). So in terms of tonnage the weight difference between bindings is not my biggest issue. As long as I can keep up I'm not worried.
With moderate huck, moderate speed, moderate steeps - so far my shifts have been great - no pre-releases and one legit release that probably saved my knee. I read the concerns here, and it makes honestly wonder if we're all talking about the same bindings - I just haven't experienced these problems.

[margotron]

repeating for millionth time. anyone having issues with brakes releasing on the up, put a rubber band on them in the parking lot. i *used to have* pre release issues till i did the LeeLau post, and havent since then, which was 2 years ago

however I've moved them off all my non-pow skis. theyre still on bent chetlers for pow missions. but today im putting 300g binders on the bents. It's kinda hard to justify on the up if you're not stuck with a one ski quiver.