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  1. #326
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    May 2011
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    Sonoma & Truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinSki View Post
    Also, more specifically on the topic of IMBA and STC- BikeMag posted this article the other week: https://www.bikemag.com/features/ori...-for-question/
    From that article...

    Korenblat adds: "The problem spots we have left—Marin County, San Diego, the issues we have in Montana—without IMBA, everywhere would be like that."

    Now that is some incredible bullshit. Taking credit for things they literally had nothing whatsoever to do with.

  2. #327
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    NNW
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    130
    I wouldn't say I'm suggesting a "fun police," and no, we're never going to change the minds of the true wildernuts. However, the majority of people out there who support Wilderness and are often anti-bike in Wilderness aren't wildernuts at all. They're your run-of-the-mill outdoorsy people, many living in cities that maybe experience true wilderness once a decade. For years it has been ingrained in this group that recreationalists are conservationists, and that conservationists love Wilderness. I think it's a lot easier to convince people that mountain bikes fit into this narrative rather than the narrative is wrong. I also think that the best way to do so is by creating our own narrative showing how bicycles do fit into that.

    The idea of Wilderness is more than environmental protection. It's about self-sufficiency, experience with nature, solitude, and everything else Berry and Nash and all those guys loved. Personally, I believe that long backcountry bike rides embody all of this. It's the reason I ride. I believe that if the mountain bike media did more to embrace and promote this narrative, it could go a long way toward access.
    It sucks to suck.

  3. #328
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
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    7,706
    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinSki View Post
    I wouldn't say I'm suggesting a "fun police," and no, we're never going to change the minds of the true wildernuts. However, the majority of people out there who support Wilderness and are often anti-bike in Wilderness aren't wildernuts at all. They're your run-of-the-mill outdoorsy people, many living in cities that maybe experience true wilderness once a decade. For years it has been ingrained in this group that recreationalists are conservationists, and that conservationists love Wilderness. I think it's a lot easier to convince people that mountain bikes fit into this narrative rather than the narrative is wrong. I also think that the best way to do so is by creating our own narrative showing how bicycles do fit into that.

    The idea of Wilderness is more than environmental protection. It's about self-sufficiency, experience with nature, solitude, and everything else Berry and Nash and all those guys loved. Personally, I believe that long backcountry bike rides embody all of this. It's the reason I ride. I believe that if the mountain bike media did more to embrace and promote this narrative, it could go a long way toward access.
    That's all fair enough, and good points. But there's already a fair amount of media involving those sort of backcountry pursuits. I just saw a film at the Banff film festival following a couple racers on the Tour Divide.

    But the problem is, no one watches those pieces because they're not that exciting. Post up a video of some guy in a remote place struggling through a ride and doing a bunch of hike-a-bike with beautiful scenery in the background. Now post up a video of some guy sending it in the desert. See which one gets more views. The backcountry video won't even come close.

    The fact of the matter is most mountain bikers ride bikes because it's fun. Going around corners fast is fun. Hitting jumps is fun. Challenging yourself on a technical trail is fun. And all of that stuff translates super well on video.

    Going out someplace remote, getting a little lost, and being alone is fun in an entirely different way. And for a lot of people, it's not really fun at all. But regardless, it's a type of fun that doesn't translate very well to video because the fun is in the experience, and watching it on a TV definitely is not the same experience. This is the same reason that hiking videos aren't really a thing - it's not interesting to watch. Sure, you can make a video about some massive expedition, but that's a lot different, and it's not the sort of thing that's conducive to a 4 minute web edit.

  4. #329
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    885
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    That's all fair enough, and good points. But there's already a fair amount of media involving those sort of backcountry pursuits. I just saw a film at the Banff film festival following a couple racers on the Tour Divide.

    But the problem is, no one watches those pieces because they're not that exciting. Post up a video of some guy in a remote place struggling through a ride and doing a bunch of hike-a-bike with beautiful scenery in the background. Now post up a video of some guy sending it in the desert. See which one gets more views. The backcountry video won't even come close.

    The fact of the matter is most mountain bikers ride bikes because it's fun. Going around corners fast is fun. Hitting jumps is fun. Challenging yourself on a technical trail is fun. And all of that stuff translates super well on video.

    Going out someplace remote, getting a little lost, and being alone is fun in an entirely different way. And for a lot of people, it's not really fun at all. But regardless, it's a type of fun that doesn't translate very well to video because the fun is in the experience, and watching it on a TV definitely is not the same experience. This is the same reason that hiking videos aren't really a thing - it's not interesting to watch. Sure, you can make a video about some massive expedition, but that's a lot different, and it's not the sort of thing that's conducive to a 4 minute web edit.
    IDK, there are usually 10+ videos on Pinkbike every summer and fall documenting bike packing or big backcountry rides. Matt Hunter did a hugely popular series of rides documenting his self sufficiency on multi-day wilderness rides. All the videos receive tons of views and nearly unanimous praise. But its really hard to document, and present in a video well.

    But obviously there are a few hundred other videos on PB posted in that time which are not BC riding and are just schralping... because that shit is fun. Kinda like skiing, most videos are all about the down, even in the BC, despite the fact that the vast majority of time for every BC user is spent on the up. Most MTB videos are made for the younger viewer still into the extreme aspects, but id argue that atleast 50% of total riders would rather do a big wilderness ride than hit big jumps or ride DH.

  5. #330
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    From that article...

    Korenblat adds: "The problem spots we have left—Marin County, San Diego, the issues we have in Montana—without IMBA, everywhere would be like that."

    Now that is some incredible bullshit. Taking credit for things they literally had nothing whatsoever to do with.
    Korenblat is the one who wrote IMBA's rebuttal to STC's position paper on bikes in Wilderness, which may as well have been titled "we're IMBA and we know what's best for you". Not surprised she would say something like the quote above. How do we get rid of these people at IMBA???

    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinSki View Post
    I wouldn't say I'm suggesting a "fun police," and no, we're never going to change the minds of the true wildernuts. However, the majority of people out there who support Wilderness and are often anti-bike in Wilderness aren't wildernuts at all. They're your run-of-the-mill outdoorsy people, many living in cities that maybe experience true wilderness once a decade. For years it has been ingrained in this group that recreationalists are conservationists, and that conservationists love Wilderness. I think it's a lot easier to convince people that mountain bikes fit into this narrative rather than the narrative is wrong. I also think that the best way to do so is by creating our own narrative showing how bicycles do fit into that.

    The idea of Wilderness is more than environmental protection. It's about self-sufficiency, experience with nature, solitude, and everything else Berry and Nash and all those guys loved. Personally, I believe that long backcountry bike rides embody all of this. It's the reason I ride. I believe that if the mountain bike media did more to embrace and promote this narrative, it could go a long way toward access.
    I don't think the majority of people are even aware that bikes are not allowed in Wilderness. When I talk to non biking co-workers or others and mention I can't ride somewhere because it's wilderness the most frequent response I get is how that's a load of shit, and why can't I ride a bike in Wilderness. I think a lot of people's perception of bikes comes from interactions on front country trail systems where most people in all user groups spend most of their time. And that's where you get the most dumbasses with no clue about etiquette and people who ride like assholes on trails busy with other users which unfortunately colors peoples' perception of us.

    On a lot of the backcountry rides I do I see no one else. Or maybe a couple hunters in fall or an occasional hiker or other biker. Considering how many backcountry trails we have access to that few people ride, I have few concerns that trails would be overrun with bikes if all Wilderness opened to bikes tomorrow. A few would see lots of traffic but land managers have the tools to manage for that already. Lots of these trails don't go to destinations like peaks/lakes/views/waterfalls where hikers want to go. Whenever I get into a discussion with someone who opposes bikes I always ask them what trails are they specifically concerned about. That is where the anti bike argument falls apart. How many people would HAB up Mt Whitney if it were open? It's comical even thinking about that. Would be nice to be able to descend from Trail Camp but on the switchbacks and above Trail Crest you'd be carrying the bike.

  6. #331
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    95762
    Posts
    271
    Honestly, Korenblat failed at protecting backcountry access as an IMBA person... and ever since STC came on the scene with a reasonable solution and actual progress in congress, she is only hoping to protect her legacy: "If I couldn't do it, nobody will be able to do it!" Shameful.

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