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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by panchosdad View Post
    Thanks for that, I was wondering how involved they are. They have legal minds on it?
    I'm not entirely sure who all in the IMBA food chain is involved in this beyond our local guy. My impression is that there's likely some talking points getting handed down from the legal folks that are generally applicable to the discussion of rwa's, but not specific to the area at issue.

  2. #277
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    I'm not entirely sure who all in the IMBA food chain is involved in this beyond our local guy. My impression is that there's likely some talking points getting handed down from the legal folks that are generally applicable to the discussion of rwa's, but not specific to the area at issue.
    Yeah, at the clearwater nez-pierce meeting Melson was bringing up specific sections and pages of the usfs regs and his whole statement seemed a little... prepared. Not that I am complaining because he provided some of the better feedback out of the whole room and helped get the group of mtb guys organized ahead of time. I was pretty happy with how we presented ourselves- we were all together and had clear, concise points and did not repeat ourselves too much. It's really what local mountain bikers need to do - get organized and bring a big group to every public meeting. Sitting at home and bitching on a forum doesn't get us anywhere. If you want to bitch on the internet, submit public comments!

  3. #278
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    Mar 2006
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    Missoula, MT
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    Thanks for your efforts, guys.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  4. #279
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    Dec 2004
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    11,809
    For those who have used Live Frees link and didn't get it (like me). It will download a PDF containing all the info, most likely to your Downloads folder.
    Specially since the weight is not a giant factor on a motorized bike.

  5. #280
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    May 2006
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    west tetons
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    So does Eric Melson still work for IMBA? I thought he got de-funded. There was talk of him being employed by a consortium of the Northern Rockies mtn bike groups.

  6. #281
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by homemadesalsa View Post
    So does Eric Melson still work for IMBA? I thought he got de-funded. There was talk of him being employed by a consortium of the Northern Rockies mtn bike groups.
    Yes. The position he lost was I think montana imba director. now he is part of "government relations."

  7. #282
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    Jan 2006
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    957
    Bumping this as a reminder that comments on the Lionhead RWA are due by March 5. Some of the finest Alpine singletrack I've ridden, let's not lose it.

  8. #283
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    Jan 2008
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    Paper St. Soap Co.
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    Quote Originally Posted by livefreerdie View Post
    The CDT is currently not in the boundary that they have drawn at Lionhead, but there are definitely two groups with the word Wilderness in their name that want it all and have put in comments saying that.

    I don't think there is written direction on how USFS is supposed to handle form letters, but they seem to have much less weight than individual comments. The public reading room is where you can see others comments, there is a button right at the top to filter out form letters. I worked on this email that SWMMBA sent to our mailing list. Some of it could be copied and pasted, or used as an outline for a comment. I think this link will stay put for anyone who wants more background, or feel free to post or message me here. Another thing that was brought to my attention is that fatbikes are not mentioned anywhere in our plan, they need to be listed alongside skiing and snowshoeing in the Recreation Opportunity Spectrum section of the proposed action.
    Thanks for the link, helped me add some legal sounding jargon to my comment...that always is the hard part, coming up with something that forces them to reply.

  9. #284
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    Nov 2005
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    2,825
    Bump for last day to comment on the Custer-Gallatin plan. Easy to do:

    https://cara.ecosystem-management.or...?project=50185
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    this is an internet forum, it is assumed no one actually knows what they're talking about, and nothing anyone says here makes any difference. If you came here seeking an informed opinion on the subject, I'm sorry you were disappointed. If you came here knowing it would all be BS and you just wanted to spout about it being BS, go crawl back under a rock.

  10. #285
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    Got my comments in, thanks for the links!

  11. #286
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    So...this came in the email from IMBA today. Still drunk and apparently throwing in the towel on backcountry riding.

    https://www.imba.com/our-focus

    Highlights:

    "Our focus: More trails close to home"

    "A new direction: We see the future of mountain biking in going after opportunities for more close-to-home access. Our goal is to grow the quantity and quality of mountain bike trail communities across the U.S."

    "Why close to home? Trails close to home mean more quick hits for mental health and fun. In large cities and small rural towns alike, trails enhance quality of life, provide economic benefits and create community. We know all of this because IMBA and our local partners have been making these things happen worldwide for 30 years, and we want to make sure trails happen in more places, more rapidly."

    "52% of mountain bikers think there are not adequate miles of trails to ride in their local area
    51% of mountain bikers think there is not adequate trail diversity in their local area
    75% of mountain bikers do the majority of their riding on "local" trails"


    Dear IMBA:

    Really, you needed a survey to tell you that most riders do most of their riding on trails close to home? Yeah, I do the majority of riding on my local trails too. Guess why....they're close by and that's often all I have time for. I know, it really takes a genius to figure that out. But local trails just scratch an itch after work or weekends for many of us when we can't get away. The future of mountain biking??? Local trails aren't what we spend our days at work daydreaming about and planning trips to go to ride. Yeah we need more and better local trails but those destinations and epics are the rides we need you to help fight for, not put your head in the sand.

  12. #287
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    apparently throwing in the towel on backcountry riding.
    Not surprising considering that they lost a major chunk of their funding, not to mention the fact that regional organizations (in some places anyway) are eclipsing IMBA's relevance.
    Alpental Indigenous

  13. #288
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    May 2011
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    IMBA started in CA and out here chapters are jumping ship. First San Diego, now Santa Cruz. More to come, I suspect.

    My local chapter I informed that I’m happy to help out with trail work, etc but will not officially join while they’re still IMBA sanctioned.

  14. #289
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    Dec 2010
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    786
    Quote Originally Posted by ACH View Post
    Not surprising considering that they lost a major chunk of their funding, not to mention the fact that regional organizations (in some places anyway) are eclipsing IMBA's relevance.
    Are there other MTB advocacy/trail building organizations out there as powerful and building the rad trails like Evergreen? Its state-wide and pretty much runs the show with lobbying and building in the washington state, and they seem to be building the type of trails that pretty much gets everytype stoked. sometime i forget how lucky we are here, until i go back home to the Bay Area and look around... woof.

  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    Are there other MTB advocacy/trail building organizations out there as powerful and building the rad trails like Evergreen? Its state-wide and pretty much runs the show with lobbying and building in the washington state, and they seem to be building the type of trails that pretty much gets everytype stoked. sometime i forget how lucky we are here, until i go back home to the Bay Area and look around... woof.
    IDK, it's kind of hard to imagine, Evergreen (formerly BBTC) has been prolific in WA. That said, Central Oregon Trail Alliance has been/is Pretty active in the region as well.
    Alpental Indigenous

  16. #291
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    Dec 2004
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    SWMMBA has been growing and raising money here in MT. They remain affiliated with IMBA, at least for now.

    They are active in access issues and are just finishing up a 17+ mile network of really fun trails on BLM land.

    I am heading out there in about 20 minutes.

  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACH View Post
    IDK, it's kind of hard to imagine, Evergreen (formerly BBTC) has been prolific in WA. That said, Central Oregon Trail Alliance has been/is Pretty active in the region as well.
    Add to that the Hood River Area Trail Stewards (Hood Rats) is pretty active in the Hood River Area. Post Canyon is their baby. AFAIK they are the only IMBA chapter in the state. COTA is not and GOATS (Greater Oakridge Area Trail Stewards) has some kind of independent relationship with IMBA
    Check Out Ullr's Mobile Avalanche Safety Tools for iOS and Android
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  18. #293
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    Tahoe has both TAMBA and the Truckee Trails Foundation. I'll let you guess which one builds better trails if you're not a beginner...

  19. #294
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    Seems like local org's are pretty effective in a lot of places. Not sure what IMBA thinks they are going to do that they couldn't have done before, or whether they could really help an org that isn't effective. It really comes down to the local people who put in the time day to day over many years going to meetings and doing trail work. In San Diego we got about as much help from them after becoming a chapter as we did before, which wasn't much. Aside from fundraising and trail care crew visits/training there isn't much IMBA could help us with here because they don't have the relationships with our dozens of local land managers nor are they familiar with all the asinine rules and bureaucracy we deal with. Seems like IMBA is just trying to justify itself by piggybacking on the success of these local groups. As a national org their strength should be building relationships with national land managers like USFS and BLM to help move MTB forward nationally on issues that are beyond the scope that local groups can deal with. Instead, we see them walking away. It's really mind-boggling.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Seems like IMBA is just trying to justify itself by piggybacking on the success of these local groups. As a national org their strength should be building relationships with national land managers like USFS and BLM to help move MTB forward nationally on issues that are beyond the scope that local groups can deal with. Instead, we see them walking away. It's really mind-boggling.
    That's pretty much it.

    Dealing with the day to day operations and working with land managers to build / maintain front country trails is, like you said, pretty do-able at the local level. Where our local group has struggled is when we bump into bigger issues where we just don't have the required experience set. Forest Plan revisions, Wilderness discussions, etc. There, we're up against the Wilderness Society and organizations that are much larger, better funded, and more experienced than any of our local volunteers. And, unsurprisingly, we get the shit kicked out of us fairly regularly on those sort of issues. I've reached out to IMBA on some of those issues and they've been not particularly helpful. And given that they've gotten the shit kicked out of them on those sort of issues as well, I'm not sure there's much they could have told me that was actually going to be useful.

    But I also get that IMBA has a staff of a small handful of people, and it's tough to pay smart lawyer types when every local organization is pulling the plug on associating with IMBA. I'm not sure I see a path forward for that organization - they've fucked too many things up, and if they don't have either 1) much broader buy in from local orgs, or 2) a wealthy and generous benefactor, I don't see how they can survive. Neither of those options seems very likely. The question for me is whether an organization like Evergreen steps outside of Washington to fill the void.

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Seems like local org's are pretty effective in a lot of places. Not sure what IMBA thinks they are going to do that they couldn't have done before, or whether they could really help an org that isn't effective. It really comes down to the local people who put in the time day to day over many years going to meetings and doing trail work. In San Diego we got about as much help from them after becoming a chapter as we did before, which wasn't much. Aside from fundraising and trail care crew visits/training there isn't much IMBA could help us with here because they don't have the relationships with our dozens of local land managers nor are they familiar with all the asinine rules and bureaucracy we deal with. Seems like IMBA is just trying to justify itself by piggybacking on the success of these local groups. As a national org their strength should be building relationships with national land managers like USFS and BLM to help move MTB forward nationally on issues that are beyond the scope that local groups can deal with. Instead, we see them walking away. It's really mind-boggling.
    You nailed it. IMBA is effective basically for the Eastern half of the country, but out West they have no idea what they're doing, or so it seems.

    At the end of the day, IMBA fought against STS - fuck them.
    Last edited by TahoeJ; 11-03-2018 at 07:03 AM. Reason: Had to remove some specifics

  22. #297
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    Shadynasty's Jazz Club
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    The fuck you talking about? They’re just as useless over here.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  23. #298
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    May 2011
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    Sonoma & Truckee
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    Hey IMBA: Go Home, You're Drunk.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    The fuck you talking about? They’re just as useless over here.
    Haha. Well, Arkansas... is that it? Which has more to do with Walmart than them.

    Point is, the West has the majority of forest land... and IMBA is out of their element.

  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    But I also get that IMBA has a staff of a small handful of people, and it's tough to pay smart lawyer types when every local organization is pulling the plug on associating with IMBA. I'm not sure I see a path forward for that organization - they've fucked too many things up, and if they don't have either 1) much broader buy in from local orgs, or 2) a wealthy and generous benefactor, I don't see how they can survive. Neither of those options seems very likely. The question for me is whether an organization like Evergreen steps outside of Washington to fill the void.
    Some of the CA clubs have been talking about forming a CA-specific advocacy group. I guess that would be sort of like Evergreen in WA. We have a lot of California specific issues so it kind of makes sense. What I'd hope would come out of that is the CA body might form with others like Evergreen and form something to rival IMBA, and eventually absorb whatever is left of IMBA into a national org but with better governance and accountability to membership. IMBA used to have a few people who were really good at dealing with forest plan revisions and the like. But their stance on Wilderness and unwillingness to take the gloves off and lawyer up has really prevented them from being successful.

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    So...this came in the email from IMBA today. Still drunk and apparently throwing in the towel on backcountry riding.

    https://www.imba.com/our-focus

    Highlights:

    "Our focus: More trails close to home"

    "A new direction: We see the future of mountain biking in going after opportunities for more close-to-home access. Our goal is to grow the quantity and quality of mountain bike trail communities across the U.S."

    "Why close to home? Trails close to home mean more quick hits for mental health and fun. In large cities and small rural towns alike, trails enhance quality of life, provide economic benefits and create community. We know all of this because IMBA and our local partners have been making these things happen worldwide for 30 years, and we want to make sure trails happen in more places, more rapidly."

    "52% of mountain bikers think there are not adequate miles of trails to ride in their local area
    51% of mountain bikers think there is not adequate trail diversity in their local area
    75% of mountain bikers do the majority of their riding on "local" trails"


    Dear IMBA:

    Really, you needed a survey to tell you that most riders do most of their riding on trails close to home? Yeah, I do the majority of riding on my local trails too. Guess why....they're close by and that's often all I have time for. I know, it really takes a genius to figure that out. But local trails just scratch an itch after work or weekends for many of us when we can't get away. The future of mountain biking??? Local trails aren't what we spend our days at work daydreaming about and planning trips to go to ride. Yeah we need more and better local trails but those destinations and epics are the rides we need you to help fight for, not put your head in the sand.
    In this same email, IMBA claims to have raised $122k which built over 500 miles of trail. Bullshit. That’s the cheapest fucking trail building I’ve ever seen. By a factor of 10.

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