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  1. #26
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    This whole thing just gets me so worked up. I'd love to see some of the places that are wilderness but won't dedicate 2-5 days to do it when it could be done in 1 or 2 days. I just don't understand the anti bike thing and the distaste, no... hate is the right word, towards anything other than foot or horse traffic. We used to be able to be in and out of some of these places in a matter of hours but now it would be at least an overnight and possibly two nights. That's a big time commitment and if you're on vacation may not be possible.

  2. #27
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    Dec 2004
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    The bitch of it is the SWMMBA is closely associated with IMBA. They have done a lot of good work on access advocacy as well as creating new trails.

    https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=swmmba%20bozeman

    I want to support them but not if it means supporting the jackasses at the national level.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    I am new to mountain biking. I appreciate them taking this stance. Plenty of places to ride without getting in a wilderness area.

    And your first sentence might pretty aptly explain the two that follow.

    You from Alaska or did you move there?
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    The bitch of it is the SWMMBA is closely associated with IMBA. They have done a lot of good work on access advocacy as well as creating new trails.

    https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=swmmba%20bozeman

    I want to support them but not if it means supporting the jackasses at the national level.
    My understanding of IMBA local chapters is that if you become a member, 50% of the money goes to IMBA and 50% goes to the local chapter. But if you make a direct donation to the local chapter, 100% goes to them with nothing going to IMBA.

  5. #30
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    ^^^ It depends on the chapter. There are different levels of involvement, and it depends on how the local chapter signed up and what they receive from IMBA in return.

    For instance, up until now the local Boulder chapter (BMA) was more along the lines of a 50/50 split because they received several things in advance (I don't know all of the details). However, because of all the recent IMBA bullshit, BMA will be stepping back in their relationship and beginning in 2018 they'll transfer it to more of a "maintenance" relationship, where all IMBA does is handle member sign-ups and a few other small admin items. Because of this, IMBA only gets ~$10-12 per member from the annual dues.

    * I'm not intimately involved with BMA so I don't know the finer details and the actual terms used to describe the relationships through IMBA, but this is the overall gist of it.

  6. #31
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    Copy that. My info is based off a recent Facebook discussion involving some of the board members from COMBA, and the above info is what they stated as the relationship between COMBA and IMBA.

    In other words, if you like what your local chapter is doing but don't want to support IMBA, contact the chapter - it's likely that there is a way to support them without supporting IMBA.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    ^^^ It depends on the chapter. There are different levels of involvement, and it depends on how the local chapter signed up and what they receive from IMBA in return.

    For instance, up until now the local Boulder chapter (BMA) was more along the lines of a 50/50 split because they received several things in advance (I don't know all of the details). However, because of all the recent IMBA bullshit, BMA will be stepping back in their relationship and beginning in 2018 they'll transfer it to more of a "maintenance" relationship, where all IMBA does is handle member sign-ups and a few other small admin items. Because of this, IMBA only gets ~$10-12 per member from the annual dues.

    * I'm not intimately involved with BMA so I don't know the finer details and the actual terms used to describe the relationships through IMBA, but this is the overall gist of it.
    IMBA is in the process of changing how they deal with local organizations. It used to be that any given local organization would either be unaffiliated with IMBA, an IMBA "club," or and IMBA "chapter." Club status basically meant a logo on their website, a modest annual fee, and they could get insurance through IMBA's carrier. Chapter status meant they were basically an arm of IMBA, and membership dues were split with IMBA (I believe most chapters were on a 60/40 split, with 60 going to IMBA). Chapter status mean IMBA handled membership logistics, and offered other support to the local organization.

    Now, IMBA looks to be going away from that structure, and they're adopting an "ala carte" kind of thing. A local organization can basically pay IMBA to do various things that the organization might need done. e.g., the organization can pay IMBA a per-member fee to handle the membership logistics. Or they can pay IMBA's legal team to address some legal issue the organization might have.

    I'm not entirely clear how the affiliations play out under this framework, but it seems that if the organization is paying IMBA for anything, they're considered IMBA affiliated.

    On a separate note, IMBA's stance on Wilderness is fucking bullshit. But that's already been covered in here...

  8. #33
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    Response from my local IMBA chapter...we have the option to donate via paypal and keep all funds in SD.

    SDMBA's Response to IMBA's stance on HR 1349


    SDMBA is extremely disappointed in the action taken yesterday by the International Mountain Biking Association (IMBA) in formally filing testimony that does not support HR 1349 sponsored by Congressman McClintock and supported by the Sustainable Trails Coalition (STC).


    This action, without any input from chapters, was taken just ahead of a Federal Lands Subcommittee hearing held on December 7, 2017 at which Ted Stroll, President of the Sustainable Trails Coalition was due to testify. HR 1349 puts mountain bikers on the same footing as campers, hikers, hunters, and equestrians by restoring federal agency authority to set conditions on cyclistsí use of trails in Wilderness.


    In filing this lack of support, IMBA has gone back on a previous position of neither supporting nor opposing STCís efforts. The majority of mountain bikers feel some Wilderness trails should be opened to mountain biking according to surveys.


    Joint IMBA STC Statement (5/18/2017) https://www.imba.com/joint-statement...-coalition-stc

    IMBA Press Release opposing HR 1349 (12/6/2017) https://www.imba.com/news/imba-advoc...pproach-HR1349

    IMBA written Testimony submitted to subcommittee against cycling in wilderness (12/6/2017) https://www.imba.com/sites/default/f...ny_12-6-17.pdf


    SDMBA has supported STC since its inception both financially and in efforts to educate and inform our members and other community members about their legislative efforts. Ideally, IMBA would have taken lead, but in the vacuum, STC bravely took this on. The result has been bills in both the house and senate! Further, people are now speaking about cycling in wilderness. Where was IMBA? Doing everything possible to avoid this controversial stand.


    Leadership is difficult, especially within an advocacy organization. This is why having a strong board and executive team is critical. The team will often be confronted with difficult decisions resulting in national benefits/consequences. Unfortunately, IMBAís leadership style has been to avoid conflict - resulting in ignoring chapters and mountain bikers desires. The results of IMBAís current leadership are dismal. In the last two years IMBA lost their biggest sponsors, has eliminated local representation, ran out of money (resulting in a 50%+ staff reduction) and today broke a promise to mountain bikers regarding wilderness. Shockingly, only ONE board member has been replaced. For true change to happen, change must happen at the top. Once again, SDMBA strongly supports IMBAís board being dissolved and being replaced with elected mountain bike leaders with a strong, accomplished history of outstanding advocacy wins. SDMBA promises to continue our push for changes within this critical national organization.


    If national membership isnít right for you at this time, consider setting up a monthly recurring gift with 100% of funds staying here in San Diego to help our trails and projects. You still will be included on all correspondence and invited to all events. We cannot stress enough how important your financial support is. Local or national - we need you!


    Donate now: https://www.sdmba.com/donate.php

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afl1...ature=youtu.be
    Video Blog from SDMBA President Kevin Loomis posted 12/7/2017

  9. #34
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    Apr 2004
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    My local MBA dropped out of IMBA a few years ago and formally disbanded the financial structure. Now we can only donate time not money. They still advocate with the local land managers, town, county and state parks but entirely on a volunteer basis. It's actually worked quite well. They are still invited to help on trail project and things are actually getting done more quickly than when everything had to be voted on by a board. There are still informal meetings and both the forum and FB pages are quite active so there's plenty of communication between the powers that be and members.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 406 View Post
    Response from my local IMBA chapter...we have the option to donate via paypal and keep all funds in SD.
    Good for them. I know Minette (the former head of SDMBA) and she rocks. I'm sure she's still involved down there.

  11. #36
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    Mar 2008
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    I for one enjoy riding my six inch travel bike on sidewalks through the forest, but only close to civilization. I can't even show off my cool bike if I'm actually "out there", thus chicks would never dig me, so IMBA is doing us all a favor.
    ďI really lack the words to compliment myself today.Ē - Alberto Tomba

  12. #37
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    Mar 2008
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    This is a terrible move by IMBA.

    Sounds like Weins isn't doing a good job as executive director.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgnar View Post
    This is a terrible move by IMBA.

    Sounds like Weins isn't doing a good job as executive director.
    He can only do what the Executive Board lets him do. I bet he'll be gone by next Summer. No way a rider like him can be brainwashed into thinking this is the right approach.

  14. #39
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    May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmmm...pow! View Post
    I for one enjoy riding my six inch travel bike on sidewalks through the forest, but only close to civilization. I can't even show off my cool bike if I'm actually "out there", thus chicks would never dig me, so IMBA is doing us all a favor.
    POTD...

    It's important to note that lifting a blanket ban doesn't mean they would just be allowed everywhere. Biggest misconception about this effort that some people don't seem capable of grasping.

  15. #40
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    Sep 2006
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    Denver
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    Hey IMBA: Go Home, You're Drunk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty Beer View Post
    He can only do what the Executive Board lets him do. I bet he'll be gone by next Summer. No way a rider like him can be brainwashed into thinking this is the right approach.
    I think IMBA itself will be dead by next summer. Itís probably not a bad idea to help that process along by contacting their sponsors to let them know how you feel. IMBA is doing more harm than good to our sport at this point and needs to go away. They cannot be seen as the voice of mountain bikers any longer.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  16. #41
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    Sep 2006
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    Rossland BC
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    Mountain bikers are being reactionary and short sighted on this one. Of course we all want access to trails, and our tribal instincts are aroused when we feel unjustly excluded, but this is a complex and long term political process, with ruthless adversaries and high stakes. IMBAís strategy, of building relationships and coalitions with people who have different values over an extended period in order to achieve whatís realistically possible, isnít as emotionally satisfying as ranting within our little echo chambers or cheering on inflammatory and counterproductive gestures (HR1349), but itís exactly what thoughtful representatives of mountain biking should be doing. Iím not directly involved (though Iíve worked on trail advocacy for 20 years), and wonít pretend to understand the complex and subtle calculations, but I do appreciate that smart and passionate people are doing so on my behalf. Withdrawing support from IMBA because they lack ideological purity is self sabotage.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    Mountain bikers are being reactionary and short sighted on this one. Of course we all want access to trails, and our tribal instincts are aroused when we feel unjustly excluded, but this is a complex and long term political process, with ruthless adversaries and high stakes. IMBA’s strategy, of building relationships and coalitions with people who have different values over an extended period in order to achieve what’s realistically possible, isn’t as emotionally satisfying as ranting within our little echo chambers or cheering on inflammatory and counterproductive gestures (HR1349), but it’s exactly what thoughtful representatives of mountain biking should be doing. I’m not directly involved (though I’ve worked on trail advocacy for 20 years), and won’t pretend to understand the complex and subtle calculations, but I do appreciate that smart and passionate people are doing so on my behalf. Withdrawing support from IMBA because they lack ideological purity is self sabotage.
    Yeah.... no.

  18. #43
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    IMBA has been preaching the long view for quite a while now. Thus far, it's mostly resulted in mountain bikes getting fucked out of access. I get the theory behind it, but sooner or later they're gonna need to show some results.

    I think boulder white cloud was the last straw for an understandably impatient audience.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  19. #44
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    Here is an illustration of what can happen.

    Wilderness Areas created at the point of and *after* the blanket bike ban in Colorado alone:

    Name:  Wilderness_areas_CO.jpg
Views: 299
Size:  79.8 KB

    And I really do hope that bikers that continue to support new Wilderness legislation don't lose access to some of their favorite trails... because it sucks.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    Mountain bikers are being reactionary and short sighted on this one.... Withdrawing support from IMBA because they lack ideological purity is self sabotage.
    Reactionary is something that happens when people react quickly. This response has taken years, decades even, to build up. Kind of like IMBA's relationships with the backstabbing (see B-WC) groups that represent the hiker lobby. And recognition of the obvious fail of pushing a one size fits all solution (while openly admitting it only works for some places) does not require anything like ideological purity. Quite the opposite.

    When I last asked in 2016, IMBA had no employees in USFS Region 1 where most of this stuff hits the hardest. Their testimony on this should never have been invited in the first place.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Here is an illustration of what can happen.

    Wilderness Areas created at the point of and *after* the blanket bike ban in Colorado alone:

    Name:  Wilderness_areas_CO.jpg
Views: 299
Size:  79.8 KB

    And I really do hope that bikers that continue to support new Wilderness legislation don't lose access to some of their favorite trails... because it sucks.
    I think those are only brand new Wilderness areas, too. I know of some expansions near Crested Butte that took place in 93 that aren't listed and took away what had been considered classics beforehand.

  22. #47
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    When I last asked in 2016, IMBA had no employees in USFS Region 1 where most of this stuff hits the hardest. Their testimony on this should never have been invited in the first place.
    Their advocacy manager/government relations guy lives here in Missoula, where the R1 headquarters are. But there was a gap last year between him being the imba regional director and getting this job.

    I will definitely bring up this imba testimony next time I see him.
    Last edited by jamal; 12-09-2017 at 04:00 PM.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    POTD...

    It's important to note that lifting a blanket ban doesn't mean they would just be allowed everywhere. Biggest misconception about this effort that some people don't seem capable of grasping.
    In fact, I suspect that the ban would remain in place in most Wilderness areas, even if the legislation passed, as most land managers are probably anti-bikes. But at least they would have to address the question and base their decisions on logic and facts to some extent.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    Mountain bikers are being reactionary and short sighted on this one. Of course we all want access to trails, and our tribal instincts are aroused when we feel unjustly excluded, but this is a complex and long term political process, with ruthless adversaries and high stakes. IMBA’s strategy, of building relationships and coalitions with people who have different values over an extended period in order to achieve what’s realistically possible, isn’t as emotionally satisfying as ranting within our little echo chambers or cheering on inflammatory and counterproductive gestures (HR1349), but it’s exactly what thoughtful representatives of mountain biking should be doing. I’m not directly involved (though I’ve worked on trail advocacy for 20 years), and won’t pretend to understand the complex and subtle calculations, but I do appreciate that smart and passionate people are doing so on my behalf. Withdrawing support from IMBA because they lack ideological purity is self sabotage.
    Your statement might be a decent explanation for why they don't push for wilderness access. As in, determining where to dedicate their resources. That I could understand. As in "we disagree with the Wilderness Society and Sierra Club on this issue, but we will instead focus our efforts elsewhere, and thus improve our chances for overall success for mt bikers." That would allow a group like STC to push forward with express support from IMBA, but no real support from them, so IMBA expends no resources at all on the issue. The stance they have taken is FAR different than that.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Your statement might be a decent explanation for why they don't push for wilderness access. As in, determining where to dedicate their resources. That I could understand. As in "we disagree with the Wilderness Society and Sierra Club on this issue, but we will instead focus our efforts elsewhere, and thus improve our chances for overall success for mt bikers." That would allow a group like STC to push forward with express support from IMBA, but no real support from them, so IMBA expends no resources at all on the issue. The stance they have taken is FAR different than that.
    This isnít my fight, and I think IMBA should be more forthcoming and articulate on this matter, but itís clear that Wilderness and public land in general is under attack in your country from people who donít give a fuck about mountain biking, that the STCís cause has been co-opted by these assholes to further their agenda, that mainstream environmental groups and key regulatory agencies appreciate this and are therefore mobilizing against it, and that both ethically and practically IMBA should respect and maintain relationships with these groups and come out against this bill. I have my issues with IMBA and some of their policies, but itís ridiculous to expect perfection from a group trying to represent a community as diverse as mountain bikers. The people from IMBA Iíve interacted with over the years have almost been sincere and capable individuals, trying their best under difficult circumstances, and Iíll continue to support them.

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