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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover View Post
    you know who you are.
    I don’t think they do

    Nor do they likely think they’re doing anything wrong (until they’re called out)

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by steepconcrete View Post
    In a way this is the long winded version of "she was asking for it by wearing a short skirt"
    No this is the same as telling my then teenage daughters to be very careful with drugs or alcohol to excess around young men "because shit will happen you didn't want to happen".

    And sadly they both told me I was right many years later.

    Nobody is asking for it, but you have to be careful and understand human behavior is all I am suggesting.

    Think of it another way, are you going to get raging drunk with a bunch of gay men? If you do, you may wake up with a sore ass you could have avoided.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    I feel more comfortable acknowledging that all politicians are pond scum and to expect anything less from them is unrealistic. No need for Democrats to take the High Road and shoot themselves in the foot if the Republicans are represented by the Pussy Grabber and Chief and Alabama sends that POS to the Senate.

    Fuck Putin's narrative ("They're all the same! There's no difference between parties!..."), and fuck you for trying to spread Putinjizz where there is a clear difference between how the two American Parties are responding to the same situation, you dumbed down motherfucker.



    Protip: Hold all elected representatives to high standards of conduct.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    are you going to get raging drunk with a bunch of gay men?
    success has many fathers, failure is an orphan // we are all apprentices in a craft where no one ever becomes a master -EH

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    Fuck Putin's narrative ("They're all the same! There's no difference between parties!..."), and fuck you for trying to spread Putinjizz where there is a clear difference between how the two American Parties are responding to the same situation, you dumbed down motherfucker.



    Protip: Hold all elected representatives to high standards of conduct.
    I could be wrong but I think he is suggesting that the dems should take a page from the GOP handbook rather than take the high road not that they are currently behaving the same. A sort of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".
    “We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.”
    ― Anaïs Nin

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    I could be wrong but I think he is suggesting that the dems should take a page from the GOP handbook rather than take the high road not that they are currently behaving the same. A sort of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".

    He's saying that since they're all the same and all crooks anyway, the Dems should just go ahead and handwave sexual harassment/assault in their ranks if they can gain advantage by doing so.
    That behavior ultimately degrades the the whole process, which is quite in standing with the "Tear it down!" narrative liv2suk lives2promulgate.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    How many "Switft boat" accusers were there? Just sayin......... it's all good if it helps a cause you believe in...........
    The Swift boat thing wasn't even close to the same situation.

    And I don't get why you're on about women having alterior reasons for making accusations. Sure, some may do so...some are manipulative assholes just like some men are manipulative assholes....but I think the women who "falsely accuse" for alterior motives are probably the minority.

    As I said before. I think there is a lot of shame that happens when a person is sexually harrassed, and often we are talking not just harrassment but downright abuse. I think shame and fear of humilation and just plain fear makes it hard for the abused to confront their abuser...sometimes it takes years. Child abuse cases iften follow the same exact lengthy itinerary. Sorry...I don't buy much of the "but it's just false accusations" blarney.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover View Post
    The Swift boat thing wasn't even close to the same situation.

    And I don't get why you're on about women having alterior reasons for making accusations. Sure, some may do so...some are manipulative assholes just like some men are manipulative assholes....but I think the women who "falsely accuse" for alterior motives are probably the minority.

    As I said before. I think there is a lot of shame that happens when a person is sexually harrassed, and often we are talking not just harrassment but downright abuse. I think shame and fear of humilation and just plain fear makes it hard for the abused to confront their abuser...sometimes it takes years. Child abuse cases iften follow the same exact lengthy itinerary. Sorry...I don't buy much of the "but it's just false accusations" blarney.
    All I'm saying is I have reasonable doubt about the veracity of some of the allegations.

    I believe the swift boat incident, where all involved later on admitted to lying to help defeat John Kerry (a lie for the cause!) is on point. Politics is dirty rotten pool and there are those who play to win no matter what the cost and I have known women who will stand up for another against a common foe even if it means lying.
    “We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.”
    ― Anaïs Nin

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Saw this. How the hell did he ask? Like a scummy old man? It appears so as he stepped down.

    How do you ask for a real surrogate? Can it not be a subordinate if asked correctly? Probably inappropriate in any workplace, but the whole surrogate deal seems odd to me anyway. I work with a guy who's wife's doing it now.

    This whole thing is surreal.

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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    "Hey, can I put a baby in you?"
    Yeah I mean it had to be something like that.

    To me personally, and my wife alike, believe sexual harassment in the workplace has a very broad definition. What some consider sexual harassment to others is considered dumbasses making stupid comments. Some people are sensitive, some are not as. I'm not talking physical contact of a sexual nature, as that's wrong, more how easily the "system" can be manipulated by those who choose to manipulate it.

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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    What some consider sexual harassment to others is considered dumbasses making stupid comments. Some people are sensitive, some are not as.
    Yes, I agree.

    Kind of in the same vein, we had a meeting with the IT dept. We had a young women that had just been hired to work in IT and we were discussing going to office 365 and my concern was speed with some of our other locations. My comment was, "people are already bitching about the speed, will going to this platform make it even slower?" She was offended that I used the word "bitching". Yup, so we fired her ass No, joking. She left on her own not much longer after that.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Yes, I agree.

    Kind of in the same vein, we had a meeting with the IT dept. We had a young women that had just been hired to work in IT and we were discussing going to office 365 and my concern was speed
    Somehow I took Office 365 as being a nightclub and "speed" as being amphetamines. Oh well.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    Yes, I agree.

    Kind of in the same vein, we had a meeting with the IT dept. We had a young women that had just been hired to work in IT and we were discussing going to office 365 and my concern was speed with some of our other locations. My comment was, "people are already bitching about the speed, will going to this platform make it even slower?" She was offended that I used the word "bitching". Yup, so we fired her ass No, joking. She left on her own not much longer after that.
    you must be kidding me?? Holy shit what has The USA become? Was she a millennial?
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover View Post
    Somehow I took Office 365 as being a nightclub and "speed" as being amphetamines. Oh well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    you must be kidding me?? Holy shit what has The USA become? Was she a millennial?
    Yeah, she was probably 23-25 yrs old. She has some growing up to do or the business world is going to be a long road for her.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    Think of it another way, are you going to get raging drunk with a bunch of gay men? If you do, you may wake up with a sore ass you could have avoided.
    LOL. I have gotten stupid fucked up with gay men so many times I can't count. We always pick N. Park/Hillcrest over the Gaslamp if you know what I mean (it's closer to Kensington and way less aggressive scene). Oh and they seem to always have copious amounts of very good drugs so waking up is never a problem.

    Anyhow no real point other that gay men generally are not the rapist type. They don't have to go there because men are all whores - especially gay men... so getting laid is no problem whatsoever.

  16. #66
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    I see a vague parallel between the arc of black people and the arc of women in the long journey from "property" to "equal".

    In both cases there were formal landmarks of legal change followed by extended periods of integration-while-being-treated-poorly at various levels, then eventually a sort of collective "what the fuck" about being treated poorly, national discussion and forward movement for some sectors and festering bitterness and resentment in others.

    There will likely be multiple geographic and social strata layers of results here, ranging from outliers of backlash and reverse progress to outliers of complete revamp of male to female behavioral norms in some places and situations...and a fat part of the curve being mixtures of some levels of appreciable positive change mixed with some levels of subdued resentment. I would expect this staggered change to further divide the country, and to pretty closely follow the red/blue map you see every election night and the rural/urban pattern emerging as the most major sociopolitical indicator of groupthink affiliation....but also likely along class lines, with the very poor and very rich not giving a fuck and the majority of the rest having to shoehorn their personas to fit into fast-changing workplace cultures which will vary in their adoption of the new norm.

    I'd expect nearly everything seen with the arc of the civil rights movement to appear in one form or another until we arrive at a sort of dog-whistle versus outrage stasis. Right now, the Trumps and Moores are akin to George Wallace in being more or less outright in favor of the old gross normal....that will likely morph into subtle, low-key dog whistle shit, in the same way racism has gone from the "segregation forever" type stuff to more complex things like anti-terrorism standing in for anti-muslim and anti-immigrant standing in for anti-hispanic and draconian war on drugs standing in for anti-black.

    I think that's the better analogy than the arab spring, mainly because the specific geopolitical dynamics of the US civil rights movement are still in play in very similar ways.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post

    I think that's the better analogy than the arab spring, mainly because the specific geopolitical dynamics of the US civil rights movement are still in play in very similar ways.
    Sure. That and the fact that "Arab" is generally a non-starter in terms of women's empowerment

  18. #68
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    If #Metoo is the Arab Spring then #PizzaGate is the Syrian Civil War

  19. #69
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    also, maybe right now it's reasonable to default toward believing the accusers, but in the blink of an eye people will begin to recognize the power behind these accusations; and a weapon will have been created for any woman with any grudge toward any man.
    If it's not happening already, the immediate potential for this should be troubling for everyone....because there are vindictive and manipulative women who surely see this dynamic and surely will weaponize it.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    also, maybe right now it's reasonable to default toward believing the accusers, but in the blink of an eye people will begin to recognize the power behind these accusations; and a weapon will have been created for any woman with any grudge toward any man.
    If it's not happening already, the immediate potential for this should be troubling for everyone....because there are vindictive and manipulative women who surely see this dynamic and surely will weaponize it.
    There's women that already do this. Our previous supervisor carried professional liability insurance because we had one employee that was known to attempt to claim sexual harassment and/or discrimination if you so much as looked at her cross-eyed. She was always contacting HR. The good thing is that she never got passed her initial consultations with HR. She was also always trying to make claims on behalf of other employees. She was transferred to another unit, so now it's their problem. The part I don't get, this was supposedly known before she was hired permanently when she worked as a postdoc elsewhere, and yet she was still hired.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    I see a vague parallel between the arc of black people and the arc of women in the long journey from "property" to "equal".

    In both cases there were formal landmarks of legal change followed by extended periods of integration-while-being-treated-poorly at various levels, then eventually a sort of collective "what the fuck" about being treated poorly, national discussion and forward movement for some sectors and festering bitterness and resentment in others.

    There will likely be multiple geographic and social strata layers of results here, ranging from outliers of backlash and reverse progress to outliers of complete revamp of male to female behavioral norms in some places and situations...and a fat part of the curve being mixtures of some levels of appreciable positive change mixed with some levels of subdued resentment. I would expect this staggered change to further divide the country, and to pretty closely follow the red/blue map you see every election night and the rural/urban pattern emerging as the most major sociopolitical indicator of groupthink affiliation....but also likely along class lines, with the very poor and very rich not giving a fuck and the majority of the rest having to shoehorn their personas to fit into fast-changing workplace cultures which will vary in their adoption of the new norm.

    I'd expect nearly everything seen with the arc of the civil rights movement to appear in one form or another until we arrive at a sort of dog-whistle versus outrage stasis. Right now, the Trumps and Moores are akin to George Wallace in being more or less outright in favor of the old gross normal....that will likely morph into subtle, low-key dog whistle shit, in the same way racism has gone from the "segregation forever" type stuff to more complex things like anti-terrorism standing in for anti-muslim and anti-immigrant standing in for anti-hispanic and draconian war on drugs standing in for anti-black.

    I think that's the better analogy than the arab spring, mainly because the specific geopolitical dynamics of the US civil rights movement are still in play in very similar ways.
    An excellent, very astute and germane analysis, IAS!! That is the type of thoughtful intercourse I was hoping for with this thread.

    I am actually willing to take a chance with women weaponizing accusations, because I think those type of women are fewer than those that simply want to be treated like equals for the first time in 50,000 or more years...without the caveman-like, testosterone induced bullshit from men.

    Granted...the situation for women in most places of the 1st world is a whole lot different than in prehistoric times. "2nd" and "3rd" world? Well, not so much. But look at Saudi Arabia...formally a bastion of male-dominated thinking...women can now drive there. A small step...but a step, nonetheless.

    The fact that we even still NEED to have these discussions about equality for women or equality for blacks or whomever else is just absurd! It's been hundreds to thousands of years since our various regional societies have been hunter-gatherers.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    I see a vague parallel between the arc of black people and the arc of women in the long journey from "property" to "equal".

    In both cases there were formal landmarks of legal change followed by extended periods of integration-while-being-treated-poorly at various levels, then eventually a sort of collective "what the fuck" about being treated poorly, national discussion and forward movement for some sectors and festering bitterness and resentment in others.

    There will likely be multiple geographic and social strata layers of results here, ranging from outliers of backlash and reverse progress to outliers of complete revamp of male to female behavioral norms in some places and situations...and a fat part of the curve being mixtures of some levels of appreciable positive change mixed with some levels of subdued resentment. I would expect this staggered change to further divide the country, and to pretty closely follow the red/blue map you see every election night and the rural/urban pattern emerging as the most major sociopolitical indicator of groupthink affiliation....but also likely along class lines, with the very poor and very rich not giving a fuck and the majority of the rest having to shoehorn their personas to fit into fast-changing workplace cultures which will vary in their adoption of the new norm.

    I'd expect nearly everything seen with the arc of the civil rights movement to appear in one form or another until we arrive at a sort of dog-whistle versus outrage stasis. Right now, the Trumps and Moores are akin to George Wallace in being more or less outright in favor of the old gross normal....that will likely morph into subtle, low-key dog whistle shit, in the same way racism has gone from the "segregation forever" type stuff to more complex things like anti-terrorism standing in for anti-muslim and anti-immigrant standing in for anti-hispanic and draconian war on drugs standing in for anti-black.

    I think that's the better analogy than the arab spring, mainly because the specific geopolitical dynamics of the US civil rights movement are still in play in very similar ways.
    Reminds me of a John Lennon Song (RIP).

  23. #73
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    I'm sure by now someone has pointed out that the Arab Spring didn't really work out very well for most of the people involved

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    I'm sure by now someone has pointed out that the Arab Spring didn't really work out very well for most of the people involved
    I did in the opening post where I said:

    "My only hope is that the Me Too movement does not whither and die like the Arab Spring movement did. "

    Of course in the aftermath of the Arab Spring many had since lost their lives as the various corrupt autocracies regained their stranglehold on citizen freedom. Obviously, I don't believe the women of 'me too' will share the same fate, although some murderous men might fantasize thusly.

  25. #75
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    Let's not be too literal. But despite an exciting and vibrant start the aftermath of the Arab Spring has hardly been uniformly positive and fact has been a disaster for many. So it seemed an odd thing to compare the "Me Too movement" to, unless you expect a similar outcome at some level.

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