Why is 4FRNT blowing it this year?

[reckless toboggan]

BTW, I hope I'm wrong on all accounts. That would make me happy. But we've all seen this show before, so I fear I'm not.

Again. JLev needs to take the criticism and his failure to deliver this season, apologize to his long term customers, and either change his attitude, or cease to be the mouthpiece for 4frnt.

Additionally, if he's going to be focussing on "story" he needs to be a much better story teller and communicator in general, or hire one. That interview said everything and meant nothing. It's was all spin. It was an opportunity to tell the story and build the mythos, but it came off as a defensive "I saved the company, you're welcome."

He needs to have a clear, concise, and focussed message. Getting loudly defensive and being thin skinned isn't going to do him or 4frnt any favors. If he can't do that, he should hire someone who can.

He needs to realize that hese critsisms and concerns come from a place of love for the company and products.

Given his and Matt's posts and interviews, at this point, having Matt be the voice of 4frnt would be a better course of action. Maybe JLev can work in the background to get "deep" on the website stories. But I don't think JLev's ego could handle being a quiet behind the scenes mastermind.



TL;DR

JLev could learn a lot about public relations from the guys at ON3P, Praxis, Lithic, Moment, and some of his other relatively boutique competitors.

[Skidog]

1. They retained the only guy that designs skis that TGR really loves: HOJI!
2. Their skis are made at the Elan factory which produces some of the best mass production quality available.
3. They almost went under. Creating a sustainable business model not weighed down by huge athlete contracts seems like a necessary move.
4. Jlev has great experience with direct to consumer approach.

The elan thing I'll bet hurt them $$ wise on such small batches of specific shaped skis. While great construction wise being made there it probably cost a pretty penny.

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[TahoeJ]

Some pretty harsh comments towards JLev- a guy who hasn’t exactly gotten rich for what he’s contributed to the sport. Jeez.

Agreed about Hoji being the focus and that’s a smart move - I have yet to try his skis but might just pull the trigger on a pair.

[reckless toboggan]

Some pretty harsh comments towards JLev- a guy who hasn’t exactly gotten rich for what he’s contributed to the sport. Jeez.

Agreed about Hoji being the focus and that’s a smart move - I have yet to try his skis but might just pull the trigger on a pair.

Do it. You won't regret it. Eric is a ski design genius. It's like your skis are a part of you. So intuitive.

[dangerdad]

Very similar to when line dropped majority of athletes besides EP and was then bought out.....

[#######]

Not hating on Trump. Don't confuse concern for hate. See Hillary and Democrats for the source of that concern. Additionally, if you're going to direct campaigning, you must deliver on time to create confidence and reliability, and you need to really take care of your voter because you are the home front. Matt's post here is excellent. JLev basically bitches and gets defensive, instead of apologizing to his voters for his failures and delays. That doesn't bode well. Would you keep living in a country when they've not fulfilled their obligations in a timely manner? And then their response is a Tweet off and bitch about it, when you bring it up?

FIFY

[Skidog]

Very similar to when line dropped majority of athletes besides EP and was then bought out.....

Thank you.

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[reckless toboggan]

FIFY

Take it to Pollyasshat. We don't need your political opinions here in the main ski forum.

[reckless toboggan]

Very similar to when line dropped majority of athletes besides EP and was then bought out.....

Thank you.

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Exactly.

[#######]

You or anyone are welcome to call me anytime to discuss why I'm spending so much time and effort trying to ruin the 4FRNT brand, rip people off, and hurt the sport of skiing (802) 585-1098 xt2

Take it to Pollyasshat. We don't need your political opinions here in the main ski forum.

Give him a call then. Seems like you know how to run a bizness

[reckless toboggan]

You or anyone are welcome to call me anytime to discuss why I'm spending so much time and effort trying to ruin the 4FRNT brand, rip people off, and hurt the sport of skiing (802) 585-1098 xt2

Give him a call then. Seems like you know how to run a bizness

If you read his reactionary and defensive post (that you quoted) which jumps to the opposite extreme (similar to the way a 3 year old responds), clearly he doesn't want to talk about how to run a business.

The post indicates that he'd rather draw someone into a poor-me conversation. This seems to be his standard mode of operation through the years, and does not bode well for 4frnt.

Another opportunity to build a story/mythos for the future of the brand lost to JLev's "personality". And this was with a forum that actually loves 4frnt.

I wonder what a potential new customer who doesn't know the 4frnt brand well (or at all) would think of JLev's responses, and what would they then think of 4frnt as a company?


Compare JLev's response to the interactions with Cody on the new Salomon binding. People criticized the lack of a tall lifter for certain situations. A relatively reasonable and somewhat productive discussion ensued. Salomon/Cody didn't take his ball and go home like JLev did. Salomon/Cody didn't jump to the opposite end of the martyr spectrum and dare people to call them. They took the critique of their customers, maybe they'll learn something from it that makes their product or marketing better, and will reach out to more a more inclusive access to progressive products.

A more inclusive access to progressive products is something JLev has repeatedly mentioned, yet when he interacts with that very customer, he comes off like a dick who doesn't actually want to hear it.


The question in the title of this thread is "Why is 4frnt blowing it this year?"

I think that there are several reasons that have made themselves very apparent in this thread.

Hopefully JLev will get out of his own way and learn from it.

[JLev]

I'd love to have an open an honest discussion and be stoked to discuss and share all of my trials and tribulations and reasons for all my decisions over my past 23 years working in the ski industry and I've done it many times in other threads and multiple podcasts. However it's very difficult to justify doing so when the comments on this thread prior to me ever speaking a word are ripping me to pieces for many things unrelated to anything I've had a hand in and no understanding of the facts that lead to those decisions, mostly based on hearsay and speculation and seem to be done with a goal of bullying for entertainment sake instead of inviting an honest discussion. I apologize if my sarcastic response didn't fit what was intended to only match other's sarcasm and joking on the subject. Like most of you hear, I'm just another skier with a deep passion for the sport, doing what i can for it. I've given many honest answers here, unfortunately more times than not, met with claims by others that I'm simply spinning this and that or making shit up. Anyone that knows me, knows I'm as honest and transparent as they come. I'm sorry if my casual sarcasm in response to what I took as other's tongue and cheek comments in the same tone was not what you were looking for. I'll try to dig in here and type some real answers but I'm not the fastest and I'm honestly working 14 hour days so it simply may be more sporadic time wise than you'd like. Thanks for all of your understanding and passion for skiing!

[JLev]

Also that wasn't a joke about giving me a call. A couple of people called, one from japan actually about this thread and it was great talking instead of typing. I spend all day talking with my customers,. it's a huge part of why I started my new ski company exclusively selling direct. To get back to why I started making skis in the first place, to create new skis and share them with the actual people riding them. So seriously call anytime! (802) 585-1098

[Supermoon]

Watching Dew Tour finals and it looks like Alex Ferreira is on 4FRNT now? Officially on the team, or are you guys just flowing him skis?

[Dee Hubbs]

Watching Dew Tour finals and it looks like Alex Ferreira is on 4FRNT now? Officially on the team, or are you guys just flowing him skis?

For the Win today.

[shirk]

Did JLev steal reckless toboggan's girlfriend in High School?

Being the small guys in the industry ain't easy. I don't think people realize just how small 4frnt is/was compared to the bigger guys for the amount of exposure they've had all these years. I can imagine Matt has had some sleepless nights over the years wondering how he's going to support his family while still keeping his business alive and his staff and pro's on payroll.

[reckless toboggan]

Being the small guys in the industry ain't easy. I don't think people realize just how small 4frnt is/was compared to the bigger guys for the amount of exposure they've had all these years. I can imagine Matt has had some sleepless nights over the years wondering how he's going to support his family while still keeping his business alive and his staff and pro's on payroll.

I realize and agree with all of the above.

[shirk]

I realize and agree with all of the above.

From your silence on the girlfriend comment we'll assume you're still bitter about JLev taking her to the prom.

[Matt Sterbenz]

This week we have seen a lot of emotions get stirred over the departure of some athletes, while the rise of others has widely fallen on deaf ears. I love being inspired and I find its often easier to keep that circle of influencers tight, which makes change hard to accept. I have cherished the years we've had in working with multi-generational pros and others who came up through pro forms. Sure its a blow when we part ways, but its also an opportunity to look openly at the future and to see what opportunities may lie ahead.

Today we had a win for 4FRNT, by an athlete who simply needed skis. Alex Ferreira took Pipe in the Dew Tour on WISE 177's, a ski he got turned onto from his former 4FRNT team mate, David Wise. It's a bitter sweet victory, because our history with David has me naturally rooting for him, but then Alex puts 4FRNT on the top step on what appeared to be one of the most casual displays of mind blowing ski wizardry ever. He boosted doubles so high and would Candide-like re-enter the pipe without the slightest compression.

To be honest, park and pipe hasn't really been working out. It has high minimum order requirements and takes a lot of hustle to sell through, so when Alex sent his agent, then David asking for skis, I declined. While a departure with David loomed in the distance, Alex personally wrote to me, and seeing his determination, I felt compelled to accommodate his request and honestly left it widely at that. If he wanted to win as bad has he did need these skis, I couldn't help but say yeah? We shipped him skis, played phone tag a bit during Thanksgiving and stayed in touch over social media. Now he's taken 4FRNT at one of the biggest events in our sport to the podium simultaneously when we announce our team for 17/18. Its cool to see the evolution, determination in our sports rising starts, and also to embrace the change as the outcome while uncertain, could lead to even bigger things for us, and them.

I came here to state for the record Alex Ferreira is a humble bad ass and he brought 4FRNT to top step today solely because he believed the skis could get him there. This is an exciting and defining time for us all in skiing, and we appreciate your comments to help us be the brand you believe we can be.

Ski ya,
Matt

[reckless toboggan]

Thank you for that Matt. A good read. Perfect.

[thewestisthefuture]

Love my Hojis and Kye 110s. As others have said, 4frnt changed the way I ski. My customer service experiences were before the transition but were very helpful and personalized. If the quality stays the same and the prices stay low, awesome. I'll keep buying the skis. If the customer service gets shitty but the product stays as good, well... I'm reminded of a motorcycle parts manufacturer that I continue to patronize even though shipping is slow and customer service is terrible, simply because they still make high-quality stuff that I can't get anywhere else. Great service is a real treat but a manufacturer lives and dies by its product. Keep making good skis!

[mntlion]

are ravens made in whiteroom, or Elan? either way fun nice ski, just wondering?

[Skidog]

are ravens made in whiteroom, or Elan? either way fun nice ski, just wondering?

I think whiteroom as I recall seeing them at a local ski tuner, en masse, for their tune before delivery. Damn the name escapes me, but it's the shop that moved off Bengal Blvd into second tracks sports on 33rd. Good tunes from my experience.

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[#######]

I think whiteroom as I recall seeing them at a local ski tuner, en masse, for their tune before delivery. Damn the name escapes me, but it's the shop that moved off Bengal Blvd into second tracks sports on 33rd. Good tunes from my experience.

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Pretty sure it was Twin Peaks that had that super fancy Montana.

[Skidog]

Pretty sure it was Twin Peaks that had that super fancy Montana.

That's it and now it's in second tracks I believe but yeah they had probably 50 pair of Ravens when I was in there early last season waiting to be "factory" tuned

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